Promoting interest on an IMPBA pond

[osracer]

I'm not sure how the IMPBA insurance is written (Maybe an IMPBA officer can jump in) but it has to cover more than just racers. It also has to cover spectators. That said maybe they could work out something for an open house fun run. I disagree that IMPBA is just insurance, I think it is much more than that. I also disagree that IMPBA shouldn't be asked for help to get a new guy started as it is in their best interest to have more members. I don't know their cost per member but I would think a break even number for a new member could be something that may work. Think of it as an investment. I love this hobby and I hate seeing what is happening to it. Why should we have to find a test pond to introduce someone to model boating when we have a great pond already set up. What we are doing is not working and we all need to think outside the box to try and find new ways to introduce new members to this great hobby.

The reason for this post is that I took on promotions and new members for our club this year. I am finding out first hand the road blocks that face increasing membership and I am just hoping to get a discussion going that may remove some off those road blocks. Thanks for reading. Bill

 

[Greg Hahn]

Bottom line is to make growth easier we need to go back to thinking in the AMA direction and get out of the insurance situation that the IMPBA is in. I know this is a two way street and a lot stands in the way and I'm not at all trying to add agony to the issue. There are many mis-conceptions about the insurance situation, whats really needed, how it should work, but it drastically needs to be looked at. There are way too many stipulations required for the insurance considering the minimal liability risk inherent in this hobby. The biggest issue is size, the IMPBA or model boating in general is not big enough to command any bargaining chip when soliciting for insurance quotes.

Things have lightened up here at the AMA and we've had a major change in administration, not sure where that will take us yet but we need to get back to talking. I've been given the go ahead to get the big pond here on the AMA property in Muncie up and running so thats a start. Something definately needs to be done to make it easyier for clubs to promote the boating hobby and be able to give interested by-standers a "hands on experience" since that is the number one creator of new members!

gh

 

[HTV Boats]

Bill,

No one is trying to rain on your parade but a few of us have beed down those roads before. As for insurance that is an area I can speak about as my son Jay and our family agency did the legwork for the current policy. Jay cut the premium and increased needed coverages. When you acquire a blanket policy for special events you find underwriters do not have a clue on how we actualy opperate but risk in insurance can be reduced by common sense and safety poceddures that are in place. That is what they look for in evaluating future risk. Past claims are a large factor also. It has been discussed going under the wing of AMA but that might make our policies and proceedures dictated by AMA which might not be in boatings best interest since we would be a minority in their membership. These are controlls I would not like to see happen. Bottom line is it costs "X" and we all pay that portion of "X". As a group we would be better off joining with NAMBA to increase our base but I do not see that happening as there are some differences and I would have to have a copy of each policies declarations to compare what is really covered and what people believe is covered. Thats a whole different discussion.

Right now to operate and hold races we need liabilty insurance for our members,clubs and the property owners that the ponds are located on. Liability covers damage to property and persons on that site. Our fences and hot pits are safety proceedures to mitigate the chance of a loss with what is considered the greatest risk, a running boat. Containing non members to safer areas is what underwriters like to see as they are on the hook whether anyone slips in the grass or is injured by our equipment. Goes on and on from there.

Just an FYI no one in IMPBA made any commision off the insurance we have. Jay found a broker that had an appointment with the best company and they wrote the policy. So there is no financial interest other than keeping costs down and proper coverage. .

As for bringing in potential members and giving them a free try well thats a risk I do not want my dues going for. The insurance company based its rates by risk. Adding people off the street who are not paid members who have no experience or training io our safety proceedures.can only increase our costs. Start making acceptions and you will go to your race site one afternoon and find a whole new bunch of guys running there with the guy you let have the free trial. It was ok that day so what the heck. Sorry there is a reason we band together make rules and pay dues. If just watching a well run race and organization doesn't spur interest I do not think a lap around the course is going to make or break the sale. Sites are hard to come by and we need to keep them. There are other ways clubs can get the word out and lure potential members.

Mic

 

[Greg Hahn]

MIc,

The big issue with AMA was not really a policies and procedures threat but the difference between the IMPBA need for primary insurance?. the AMA's is secondary unless you don't have homeowners or other in which it becomes primary. The "other insured" which is flying site owner or property owner is primary. The issue being talked about here is the restriction of non-members not being able to participate in at least a limited amount to allow clubs to promote the hobby to new members in a "hands on" experience. That club and it's ability to promote and create interest is the life blood of all hobby organizations and the limits imposed by the IMPBA insurance hinders the clubs ability to do that. The fact the insurance is only good for cirtain circumstances is another issue. With AMA insurance you're covered whether you are running your boats in your bath tub, your neighbors bath tub or where ever, sanctioned event or not, it also allows for clubs to have spectator fly days and open houses and other such events for promotion purposes. We also run specials for limited time memberships which allows newbies to try it out with little obligation. We've got to make it easy at least on the administrative side, model power boating can be daunting in itself, if you make the legal and liability side of it difficult it's easy to say no.

There are several IMPBA members that are also AMA members and they have as much or better boat coverage and more latitude with AMA. They're actually double covered...........

I'm not trying to push or promote anything on anyone I just think there's options out there that would be a better situation for all and when you're trying to re-grow a hobby that's in decline there needs to be some latitude in the way it operates. When I joined the IMPBA in 2007 there were about 1200 members give or take. I think the last time I looked at the IMPBA web site a couple months ago there were less than 500? (don't shoot me if I didn't see the numbers correct) We've got some work to do, the interest is out there, we just have to make it doable for the new guy/gal.

gh

 

[osracer]

Mic, I understand, I agree that with what we have it is impossible to do what I would like to do. The whole idea of this post is to get people thinking about where our hobby is and where it is going. We have to examine why our boat counts are down and it's not all about the economy. Look around at the races and you will see that our base is getting old. As the older members drop out their is nothing in the supply line to replace them. That is what we need to address. Whatever we are doing now is not working and we need to open our minds to something different. Just because our fee's and insurance have worked forever doesn't mean they will continue to work. We have already seen races disappear and boat counts cut in half. I also agree with you on the pre wired dna. The problem with that is competitive people are competitive at everything they do and they have choices as to what they do to feed the burn in the belly. They can do cars, planes, bowl, do computer games and the list goes on. All of them easier to get started in than boats. Greg gets it, and I hope more people will also realize that part of the problem is the restrictions that are put on us by IMPBA and maybe one day they will look at it through a new comers eyes and change things to make it easier. I've given up on trying to push the rope up the hill and I appreciate that everyone kept emotions out of this thread and were respectful to each other. All for now Bill

 

[Brian Schymik]

Greg

The paid memberships for 2011 were over 1000. I dont have the exact number here at work tonight. It may have exceeded 1100.

Brian

 

[Doug Smock]

Greg you are correct 501 members registered on the website. Less than half of the membership. :unsure:

That is a valuable tool that very few are using.

D.

 

[Greg Hahn]

Brian, good to hear from you

Like i said I wasn't sure but somewhere on the front page it was showing only 490 or 500 members when I registered on line in early August. That may be the number that registered on line or maybe John hasn't updated it??

like I said not sure and didn't want to quote bad numbers. If we are still around 1000 to 1200 that's great that it's stayed level in this economy. That definately means the ones that are still here are really here!

thanks

gh

 

[Ron Olson]

Not to open up a whole can of worms but the first year of the Hobart Indy Masters race there was a "celebrity" race with AquaCraft supplying the boats and city officials plus children AquaCraft later donated the boats in a drawing for local kids to win. There was a very slim of anyone getting hurt as everything was high off the water and well protected. Seeing how this was essentially at an IMPBA sanctioned event with the IMPBA President and District Directors in attendance it still happened

Maybe what's needed is a basic IMPBA membership where you're not a racer (yet) but a new boater just trying to get going. It's kind of hard ot tell someone that has a $110-300.00 boat that they need a membership that costs $60.00 to run on your water.

Our club pond requires an IMPBA or NAMBA membership to run on as we agreed to that when the contract was signed with the property owner.

 

[bzubee]

Membership Coverage

All members in good standing will be covered at “sponsored, scheduled, and supervised activities.” This means the coverage is good at sanctioned and club races.

To answer Bill's question(and step in here anytime guys) Is what can he do to promote new members? Here's a senario: Let's suppose Bill went to our IMPBA supported pond on an off-day with a couple of kids to let them run boats. He didn't Call/Mail or notify IMPBA in any way. I suppose you could call this a "Supervised activity" but IMPBA doesn't know about it.. So, then one of the kids - chops his/her finger off.. Is this kid covered under IMPBA?? Probably not!! Senario #2. A group of IMPBA insured club members go to the same pond on a Tuesday and run tunnels..(Just a bunch of good ole racers).. Johnny runs his boat - up on shore and hits Ralph in the shin and breaks his leg.. Is Ralph covered under IMPBA? Not a sanctioned event/ Not supervised / but they are in good standing with IMPBA... This means the coverage is good at sanctioned and club races.

I wonder if Ralph filed a claim - if IMPBA would cover this? Maybe Kevin S. can shed some light.

senario #2 Yes they would be covered.

 

[HTV Boats]

Guys, I am not trying to be the Grinch here. I tend to think in a very protective way as thats what I did as an agent for my insureds. If you take our membership at 1000 give or take then consider the insurance cost per member. When Jay started looking for carriers who would take our kind of risk on there were not a lot of choices. Our existing renewal was around $31,000 and Jay found better coverage with another company for around $18,000. Dues were going to go up as the treasury was tapped. Sad to say but in order to do what we do it costs us all a portion. The more liberal our rules get the more it will cost us. The anywhere anytime blanket that AMA has costs more but they have the numbers and loss history or lack there of to negotiate a better rate. Being a smaller base and joining them looks advantageous and maybe it is. Then again they might decide our events pose a larger risk and our portion needs to be increased. What governing body makes those decisions? Boaters or flyers which we would be a large minority. Again just asking ther question. I would like to see the actual policy and read what the obligations are primary and secondary. You homeowners liability will cover you in most instances as an individual but when you act as a group and promote events you need aditional insurance. Over the years in insurance I have seen many claims paid I thought were not covered and others denied that were in "grey areas". As an agent if my customer was in a grey area I made sure we found the black and white or it came back on my own "errors and omisions" policy. In todays legal system you cannot overprotect yourself. As to the Hobart situation. Did we gain more members letting a a select few try it out or did others get interested seeing what a first class operation we had and it would be worth investing in. Even in the cheapest senario a new racer is going to spend $500 in equipment and maybe 3 to 4 times that. Is $60 the straw that breaks the deal. If a club wants to promote locally give him free membership and race fees the first year thats one or more boats they wouldn't have otherwise. The $60 that we all pay would show his commitment at least. My belief still is the racer part is in the DNA and just seeing that it is a stable and ongoing hobby is the best hook. The first boat race I went to sold me. The more positive visibility we have the more we will grow. Have a Merry Christmas I am going to the pond and run something today. Mic

 

[Doug Smock]

Not to open up a whole can of worms but the first year of the Hobart Indy Masters race there was a "celebrity" race with AquaCraft supplying the boats and city officials plus children AquaCraft later donated the boats in a drawing for local kids to win. There was a very slim of anyone getting hurt as everything was high off the water and well protected. Seeing how this was essentially at an IMPBA sanctioned event with the IMPBA President and District Directors in attendance it still happened

Maybe what's needed is a basic IMPBA membership where you're not a racer (yet) but a new boater just trying to get going. It's kind of hard ot tell someone that has a $110-300.00 boat that they need a membership that costs $60.00 to run on your water.

Our club pond requires an IMPBA or NAMBA membership to run on as we agreed to that when the contract was signed with the property owner.

This came up a while ago Ron and what you may not remember is that the race was stopped and the festivities were turned over to the City of Hobart. The race resumed when the city was finished with their race.

D.

 

[bzubee]

Ron,

When I was in attendance they made the annonocement that the IMPBA Hobart event was suspended when the celebrity event started and then once that was over the IMPBA event was restarted. My umder stansing was that the city of Hobart is the insurerer for the celebrity event.

As for IMPBA making exceptions/ special pricing for new boaters the office has enough hassle trying to get all of the information needed for online family memberships ie. names of family memebrs and thier birthdates sine John has had people trying register thier whole family under one senior membership to include brother-in-laws, grandpas and brothers, that are all owell over the maximum age of 18 years old and not a spouse or child.

The other thing is think of golf do golf courses allow FREE play to beginers? Ther eis an expense to almost every hobby and the memebership to IMPBA is just one of those exspenses same as gas or transportation to the pond.

Not to open up a whole can of worms but the first year of the Hobart Indy Masters race there was a "celebrity" race with AquaCraft supplying the boats and city officials plus children AquaCraft later donated the boats in a drawing for local kids to win. There was a very slim of anyone getting hurt as everything was high off the water and well protected. Seeing how this was essentially at an IMPBA sanctioned event with the IMPBA President and District Directors in attendance it still happened

Maybe what's needed is a basic IMPBA membership where you're not a racer (yet) but a new boater just trying to get going. It's kind of hard ot tell someone that has a $110-300.00 boat that they need a membership that costs $60.00 to run on your water.

Our club pond requires an IMPBA or NAMBA membership to run on as we agreed to that when the contract was signed with the property owner.

 

[Tim Kish]

This topic seems to come up every year or so.

My thoughts are that people will get into this hobby if their interest is high enough otherwise it is just some thing cool and they move on.

You can't force people or get them hooked by simply letting them run a boat , it has to be in them.

There are also those that just want to run their boats and not race but are scared away because we are a largely based racing organization and do very little to promote just going to the pond for fun , something that I enjoy every bit as much as racing.

I have always felt that the Manufacturers of the products we use in our hobby are not doing enough , for them they have everything to gain and nothing to loose by promoting the hobby (more people = more sales).

I had an idea a few years ago in a simular topic on I.W. that the RTR manufactures should offer a trial membership to either IMPBA or NAMBA or at least offer the information so the new boater knows they exsist , not sure if that ever happened.

This hobby is not cheap and never will be and unfortunately there will always be those that can't afford it or simply have more important things to spend their money on.

Tim K

 

[SayMikey]

I think IMPBA should offer a 3 month membership for $25.00 If you dont know the bug has bit in 3 months your not very interested. This would be for NEW members who have NEVER signed up before

 

[Tim Kish]

 

[SeanKewley]

There are barriers to entry in this hobby making it difficult to promote. There is no question about it. While I would like to see some policy changes to reduce these barriers, one simple thing that each of us can do is to commit to bringing a new person to the pond each year… Even if it is only to watch.

Last summer I brought a neighborhood boy who was curious about boats to a district race. He enjoyed it so much that he joined IMPBA ($10 Jr. membership) and attended the last 3 races of the season. He is now saving his grass mowing money for a B-mono.

Bring someone new with you to the pond next season, or perhaps sponsor a junior membership for a young person in your neighborhood. It’s only $10 to sponsor a junior member. Maybe clubs should try to sponsor X number of junior members each year. It is a goal to shoot for. The barriers to entry increase for those 18 yrs and older. Capitalize on the cheap membership for young people.

 

[Greg Hahn]

The trial memberships do work, the AMA has had that set up for some time and it does work. IMHO the real issue here is not the money its the latitude.

Case in point, I brought my dad to Mendota last year to help and call for me but I forgot the membership restriction to be in the hot pit and call so he had to sit all weekend. With AMA you can use anyone you want to help in the pits, start your plane, call for you and that's where you hook new people is that hands on, up close experience.

I'm not an insurance guy but there's no way you're going to convince me that model boating is near the liability issue that RC aircraft are with 20 hp engines swinging 30" propellers not to mention helicopters??? The insurance we have for boating is entirely too restrictive and the fact it doesn't cover you at all times doesn't make sence either. Not trying to say our insurance pros aren't doing the best they can but something needs looked at.

gh

 

[Tim leyde]

I think IMPBA should offer a 3 month membership for $25.00 If you dont know the bug has bit in 3 months your not very interested. This would be for NEW members who have NEVER signed up before

There are barriers to entry in this hobby making it difficult to promote. There is no question about it. While I would like to see some policy changes to reduce these barriers, one simple thing that each of us can do is to commit to bringing a new person to the pond each year… Even if it is only to watch.

Last summer I brought a neighborhood boy who was curious about boats to a district race. He enjoyed it so much that he joined IMPBA ($10 Jr. membership) and attended the last 3 races of the season. He is now saving his grass mowing money for a B-mono.

Bring someone new with you to the pond next season, or perhaps sponsor a junior membership for a young person in your neighborhood. It’s only $10 to sponsor a junior member. Maybe clubs should try to sponsor X number of junior members each year. It is a goal to shoot for. The barriers to entry increase for those 18 yrs and older. Capitalize on the cheap membership for young people.

The trial memberships do work, the AMA has had that set up for some time and it does work. IMHO the real issue here is not the money its the latitude.

Case in point, I brought my dad to Mendota last year to help and call for me but I forgot the membership restriction to be in the hot pit and call so he had to sit all weekend. With AMA you can use anyone you want to help in the pits, start your plane, call for you and that's where you hook new people is that hands on, up close experience.

I'm not an insurance guy but there's no way you're going to convince me that model boating is near the liability issue that RC aircraft are with 20 hp engines swinging 30" propellers not to mention helicopters??? The insurance we have for boating is entirely too restrictive and the fact it doesn't cover you at all times doesn't make sence either. Not trying to say our insurance pros aren't doing the best they can but something needs looked at.

gh

Guys, I could not agree more. In Gregs dads case cant there be a way to check online? I would be PISSED if I forgot my IMPBA card, drove hours to sit. This is another issue that needs to be addressed. We have internet on are phones lets use the site to are full advantage. If the AMA can make it easier for people to be invovled. We should be able to do the same in IMPBA.

TL

 

[Greg Hahn]

Tim,

my dad has never been a member of the IMPBA, we didn't forget his card, I forgot that non-members couldn't be in the hot pits or launch or be a caller. The fact that you must be a member to participate in any way shape or form, helper or otherwise is an issue, and a major part of our growth problem. My dad has been my caller and pit man for many years with airplanes, in fact he was my main go to pit guy at Top Gun for more than 10 years and he was never an AMA member.

have a merry one

gh