Phantom & Phantom II

[KenOlvis]

Is any of the hardware still available to build just like the old days? I have a nos kit that I'd like to build exactly like the plans show.

mike b

I dont think Joe has any hardware for old kits. Would be nice to find some. I have complete Kit for the .65 PHANTOM for a future build.

 

[Mike Byer]

65 its a CE

 

[KenOlvis]

65 its a CE

Yes Phantom CE is a .65 boat.
FYI

Mike also Joe is building my .12 I'm going to run the .21 Losi motors i got from you an wire drive setup.also Joe is finishing the drawings to start the .67 Phantom II.

Ken

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Hey Guys

Sorry I haven't been around for a while but I have been very busy. When I decided to start designing boats again, I was already pretty heavily involved in repairing R/C airplanes. I do a lot of giant scale 3D aerobatic airplanes, turbine jets, etc. SSOOOO, I had to clear my work bench. I am finishing the repair on a Yellow Aircraft F-15E Strike Eagle and that will be the last of it. I have told the guys that I will no longer be doing any aircraft building or repair as I won't have time for that anymore.

As for the Phantom II, I have completed the design on the little .12 boat and am drawing cut templates at this time for it. The kits will be lazer cut but the prototype boats will be cut on a band saw. I had no intentions of offering the .12 boat first but I got enthralled with the design as I have never did a boat that small. I posted a drawing of it earlier but since then I have made some changed. It will no longer be a 5 point hydro (2 front sponsons, 2 rear sponsons and a ski) but rather a 3 point hydro (2 front sponsons and a ski) as I do not see the necessity to have that much lift in the rear of the boat. The larger boats (larger than .21 size) will be the 5 point configuration.

The .65 boat or the CE is initially designed. Some guys have expressed their thoughts that I only use one set of plans and just enlarge or reduce them. This is absolutely not so! Each boat is designed to fit the requirements of it particular power source. In time, I will even design an electric boat which will be very different from the nitro and gas boats. Where the thought that I enlarged and reduced plans may have come from is my strict dedication to the Phantom design and making sure that all the different boats are easily recognized as a Phantom.

Being a born artist and designer, I am always thinking ahead to new pursuits. In the future (hopefully the near future) I will bring out some new designs that are not based on the original Phantom design. One will be the "Banshee". This boat will be a sports hydro that hopefully can bring the speed of this class of boats closer to the outriggers. I know, you say, "hell, you'll just blow over long before you get near that speed" but you don't know what I have up my sleeve, LOL! Another class that has always fascinated me is the Scale Unlimited Hydros. I may build a couple of kits that will be based on the pursuit of making them lighter and faster. No, no, don't say "hell, you will just blow over" I really think I can add something to this class with in the rules. I have been and always will be a fan of the 1973 Pay N Pack "Winged Wonder".

The final thing I have in mind is an outrigger hydro that pushes all the limits of design and technology as we currently know them. It will be a 4 point hydro but be very innovative when compared with current designs. So much so that I doubt I ever offer it as a kit in that it will need to be jig built in some sophisticated jigs. This boat pushes the limit of all my knowledge of aerodynamics and hydrodynamics. It will be called the "Switch Blade".

Well Guys, I guess I have talked enough for one evening, morning now, LOL! Take care and I will be posting pictures of the prototype .12 Phantom II build soon. Later! Joe

 

[Andy Brown]

Hey Guys

Sorry I haven't been around for a while but I have been very busy. When I decided to start designing boats again, I was already pretty heavily involved in repairing R/C airplanes. I do a lot of giant scale 3D aerobatic airplanes, turbine jets, etc. SSOOOO, I had to clear my work bench. I am finishing the repair on a Yellow Aircraft F-15E Strike Eagle and that will be the last of it. I have told the guys that I will no longer be doing any aircraft building or repair as I won't have time for that anymore.

As for the Phantom II, I have completed the design on the little .12 boat and am drawing cut templates at this time for it. The kits will be lazer cut but the prototype boats will be cut on a band saw. I had no intentions of offering the .12 boat first but I got enthralled with the design as I have never did a boat that small. I posted a drawing of it earlier but since then I have made some changed. It will no longer be a 5 point hydro (2 front sponsons, 2 rear sponsons and a ski) but rather a 3 point hydro (2 front sponsons and a ski) as I do not see the necessity to have that much lift in the rear of the boat. The larger boats (larger than .21 size) will be the 5 point configuration.

The .65 boat or the CE is initially designed. Some guys have expressed their thoughts that I only use one set of plans and just enlarge or reduce them. This is absolutely not so! Each boat is designed to fit the requirements of it particular power source. In time, I will even design an electric boat which will be very different from the nitro and gas boats. Where the thought that I enlarged and reduced plans may have come from is my strict dedication to the Phantom design and making sure that all the different boats are easily recognized as a Phantom.

Being a born artist and designer, I am always thinking ahead to new pursuits. In the future (hopefully the near future) I will bring out some new designs that are not based on the original Phantom design. One will be the "Banshee". This boat will be a sports hydro that hopefully can bring the speed of this class of boats closer to the outriggers. I know, you say, "hell, you'll just blow over long before you get near that speed" but you don't know what I have up my sleeve, LOL! Another class that has always fascinated me is the Scale Unlimited Hydros. I may build a couple of kits that will be based on the pursuit of making them lighter and faster. No, no, don't say "hell, you will just blow over" I really think I can add something to this class with in the rules. I have been and always will be a fan of the 1973 Pay N Pack "Winged Wonder".

The final thing I have in mind is an outrigger hydro that pushes all the limits of design and technology as we currently know them. It will be a 4 point hydro but be very innovative when compared with current designs. So much so that I doubt I ever offer it as a kit in that it will need to be jig built in some sophisticated jigs. This boat pushes the limit of all my knowledge of aerodynamics and hydrodynamics. It will be called the "Switch Blade".

Well Guys, I guess I have talked enough for one evening, morning now, LOL! Take care and I will be posting pictures of the prototype .12 Phantom II build soon. Later! Joe

I can't wait to see all of that new technology and those new boats hit the market! I like the lines on the new .12 boat. Cool looking Old School!

 

[Mike Byer]

I'm most interested in a close look at the bearing support for the drive line. I think Octura should have the joints and other shaft parts. Wondering if the cut out in the bottom for the drive shaft is sealed or open to allow the engine bay to drain.

mb

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Hey Guys

Sorry I haven't been around for a while but I have been very busy. When I decided to start designing boats again, I was already pretty heavily involved in repairing R/C airplanes. I do a lot of giant scale 3D aerobatic airplanes, turbine jets, etc. SSOOOO, I had to clear my work bench. I am finishing the repair on a Yellow Aircraft F-15E Strike Eagle and that will be the last of it. I have told the guys that I will no longer be doing any aircraft building or repair as I won't have time for that anymore.

As for the Phantom II, I have completed the design on the little .12 boat and am drawing cut templates at this time for it. The kits will be lazer cut but the prototype boats will be cut on a band saw. I had no intentions of offering the .12 boat first but I got enthralled with the design as I have never did a boat that small. I posted a drawing of it earlier but since then I have made some changed. It will no longer be a 5 point hydro (2 front sponsons, 2 rear sponsons and a ski) but rather a 3 point hydro (2 front sponsons and a ski) as I do not see the necessity to have that much lift in the rear of the boat. The larger boats (larger than .21 size) will be the 5 point configuration.

The .65 boat or the CE is initially designed. Some guys have expressed their thoughts that I only use one set of plans and just enlarge or reduce them. This is absolutely not so! Each boat is designed to fit the requirements of it particular power source. In time, I will even design an electric boat which will be very different from the nitro and gas boats. Where the thought that I enlarged and reduced plans may have come from is my strict dedication to the Phantom design and making sure that all the different boats are easily recognized as a Phantom.

Being a born artist and designer, I am always thinking ahead to new pursuits. In the future (hopefully the near future) I will bring out some new designs that are not based on the original Phantom design. One will be the "Banshee". This boat will be a sports hydro that hopefully can bring the speed of this class of boats closer to the outriggers. I know, you say, "hell, you'll just blow over long before you get near that speed" but you don't know what I have up my sleeve, LOL! Another class that has always fascinated me is the Scale Unlimited Hydros. I may build a couple of kits that will be based on the pursuit of making them lighter and faster. No, no, don't say "hell, you will just blow over" I really think I can add something to this class with in the rules. I have been and always will be a fan of the 1973 Pay N Pack "Winged Wonder".

The final thing I have in mind is an outrigger hydro that pushes all the limits of design and technology as we currently know them. It will be a 4 point hydro but be very innovative when compared with current designs. So much so that I doubt I ever offer it as a kit in that it will need to be jig built in some sophisticated jigs. This boat pushes the limit of all my knowledge of aerodynamics and hydrodynamics. It will be called the "Switch Blade".

Well Guys, I guess I have talked enough for one evening, morning now, LOL! Take care and I will be posting pictures of the prototype .12 Phantom II build soon. Later! Joe

I can't wait to see all of that new technology and those new boats hit the market! I like the lines on the new .12 boat. Cool looking Old School!

Hi Andy, not exactly "old school". All of the outriggers I see being produced today have thrown aerodynamics out the window. Aerodynamics is very important to me and you will see me use it to the fullest extent on anything I design.

 

[JOEBISHOP]

I'm most interested in a close look at the bearing support for the drive line. I think Octura should have the joints and other shaft parts. Wondering if the cut out in the bottom for the drive shaft is sealed or open to allow the engine bay to drain.

mb

Hi Mike, my carrier bearing design, used on the original Phantom, will be deleted from my new boats. The reason being is that I will not be setting up a machine shop again and if farmed out (to other machine shops), the expense is just too high. The hole where the drive shaft went through the hull on the original Phantom was open. It served two purposes, one to allow the drive line to be adjustable and two to allow any water in the engine well to exit the boat. A flex shaft will have to be used on the new boats.

 

[Mike Byer]

Always wanted to try a solid shaft, might have to see if I can turn out a copy of that brg. assembly.

mb

 

[Andy Brown]

Hey Guys

Sorry I haven't been around for a while but I have been very busy. When I decided to start designing boats again, I was already pretty heavily involved in repairing R/C airplanes. I do a lot of giant scale 3D aerobatic airplanes, turbine jets, etc. SSOOOO, I had to clear my work bench. I am finishing the repair on a Yellow Aircraft F-15E Strike Eagle and that will be the last of it. I have told the guys that I will no longer be doing any aircraft building or repair as I won't have time for that anymore.

As for the Phantom II, I have completed the design on the little .12 boat and am drawing cut templates at this time for it. The kits will be lazer cut but the prototype boats will be cut on a band saw. I had no intentions of offering the .12 boat first but I got enthralled with the design as I have never did a boat that small. I posted a drawing of it earlier but since then I have made some changed. It will no longer be a 5 point hydro (2 front sponsons, 2 rear sponsons and a ski) but rather a 3 point hydro (2 front sponsons and a ski) as I do not see the necessity to have that much lift in the rear of the boat. The larger boats (larger than .21 size) will be the 5 point configuration.

The .65 boat or the CE is initially designed. Some guys have expressed their thoughts that I only use one set of plans and just enlarge or reduce them. This is absolutely not so! Each boat is designed to fit the requirements of it particular power source. In time, I will even design an electric boat which will be very different from the nitro and gas boats. Where the thought that I enlarged and reduced plans may have come from is my strict dedication to the Phantom design and making sure that all the different boats are easily recognized as a Phantom.

Being a born artist and designer, I am always thinking ahead to new pursuits. In the future (hopefully the near future) I will bring out some new designs that are not based on the original Phantom design. One will be the "Banshee". This boat will be a sports hydro that hopefully can bring the speed of this class of boats closer to the outriggers. I know, you say, "hell, you'll just blow over long before you get near that speed" but you don't know what I have up my sleeve, LOL! Another class that has always fascinated me is the Scale Unlimited Hydros. I may build a couple of kits that will be based on the pursuit of making them lighter and faster. No, no, don't say "hell, you will just blow over" I really think I can add something to this class with in the rules. I have been and always will be a fan of the 1973 Pay N Pack "Winged Wonder".

The final thing I have in mind is an outrigger hydro that pushes all the limits of design and technology as we currently know them. It will be a 4 point hydro but be very innovative when compared with current designs. So much so that I doubt I ever offer it as a kit in that it will need to be jig built in some sophisticated jigs. This boat pushes the limit of all my knowledge of aerodynamics and hydrodynamics. It will be called the "Switch Blade".

Well Guys, I guess I have talked enough for one evening, morning now, LOL! Take care and I will be posting pictures of the prototype .12 Phantom II build soon. Later! Joe

I can't wait to see all of that new technology and those new boats hit the market! I like the lines on the new .12 boat. Cool looking Old School!

Hi Andy, not exactly "old school". All of the outriggers I see being produced today have thrown aerodynamics out the window. Aerodynamics is very important to me and you will see me use it to the fullest extent on anything I design.

Hi Joe,

The electric outrigger guys are building some very areo hulls.

I agree that there are some boxy boats currently in production. But you must not have taken a close look at the boats we at CMDi have produced from 1986 through 2015. Find a pics posted below of our 1986 Mongoose and our 2015 Eagle SGX. We are not the only current hull designers that are making good use of aero, there are several others.

 

[KenOlvis]

Fyi

Talk to Joe today next size Phantom II soon to be on the drawing board .21 Phantom II.Kits for Phantoms II .12 .21 .67 to be available November 2015 pricing available in Nov.Other Size Phantom an classes will follow soon

P/M if you are interested.

Andy you do have a nice design the girls help alot lol

Thxs

Ken

 

[Andy Brown]

Fyi

Talk to Joe today next size Phantom II soon to be on the drawing board .21 Phantom II.Kits for Phantoms II .12 .21 .67 to be available November 2015 pricing available in Nov.Other Size Phantom an classes will follow soon

P/M if you are interested.

Andy you do have a nice design the girls help alot lol

Thxs

Ken

"Andy you do have a nice design the girls help alot lol"

Thanks Ken!

Many major race wins and records helps too!

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Always wanted to try a solid shaft, might have to see if I can turn out a copy of that brg. assembly.

mb

Hi Mike, the solid shaft, carrier bearing combination was the least drag situation that I could come up with and proved to increase speed dramatically. I really don't think anything being used today can equal it's minimal drag capabilities. It's only draw back is the cheep U-joints that have to be used. Would be nice to come up with some better U-joints.

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Always wanted to try a solid shaft, might have to see if I can turn out a copy of that brg. assembly.

mb

Hi Mike, see the attached photos.

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Hi Andy

Loved your pictures! I really enjoyed seeing all the different paint schemes and layout configurations. I am intrigued by the twin gasser and the staggered layout of the engines. Yes, I have looked at your web site. When I first saw your boats, I said to myself, "now here is some guys trying to do something to reduce parasitic drag".

OK, with that said, the only thing I see that could improve on your boats is the cowling. As I have said before the two kinds of drag that affect an object passing through the air is parasitic and induced. Parasitic is just drag and induced causes lift or negative lift (down force). When the air is split by an object passing through it, it produces pressure. In the case of a pointed or stream lined object the pressure becomes induced drag in the sense of lift or negative lift. This is all good and can be used to your advantage but when you place a recessed area in this high pressure zone, it becomes parasitic drag. Parasitic drag is of no use, it just slows the boat down. Where your cowl is concerned, I really think a smooth contoured design that has no humps and recesses in it would work much better. On the Phantom, the cowl creates negative lift and controls some of the hydrodynamic lift caused by the angle of the sponsons. To remove the cowl on a Phantom (one that is running right) will cause the boat to want to blow over.

Anyway, your boats look really fantastic! Although a very different approach than I am using, non the less quite effective I am sure. If we all used the same approach, there wouldn't be Fords and Chevys, LOL! Joe

 

[Andy Brown]

Hi Andy

Loved your pictures! I really enjoyed seeing all the different paint schemes and layout configurations. I am intrigued by the twin gasser and the staggered layout of the engines. Yes, I have looked at your web site. When I first saw your boats, I said to myself, "now here is some guys trying to do something to reduce parasitic drag".

OK, with that said, the only thing I see that could improve on your boats is the cowling. As I have said before the two kinds of drag that affect an object passing through the air is parasitic and induced. Parasitic is just drag and induced causes lift or negative lift (down force). When the air is split by an object passing through it, it produces pressure. In the case of a pointed or stream lined object the pressure becomes induced drag in the sense of lift or negative lift. This is all good and can be used to your advantage but when you place a recessed area in this high pressure zone, it becomes parasitic drag. Parasitic drag is of no use, it just slows the boat down. Where your cowl is concerned, I really think a smooth contoured design that has no humps and recesses in it would work much better. On the Phantom, the cowl creates negative lift and controls some of the hydrodynamic lift caused by the angle of the sponsons. To remove the cowl on a Phantom (one that is running right) will cause the boat to want to blow over.

Anyway, your boats look really fantastic! Although a very different approach than I am using, non the less quite effective I am sure. If we all used the same approach, there wouldn't be Fords and Chevys, LOL! Joe

Thanks Joe!

Here is a pic of my 1986 .21 Mongoose. The engine was off set to the right and the 180 header and pipe fully cowled. The tank was set on the CG to the left of the engine and under the pipe.

This hull won the Orlando Winternats two years in a row. I won in 1986, My wife won in 1987.

 

[Tom Foley]

Hey Guys

Sorry I haven't been around for a while but I have been very busy. When I decided to start designing boats again, I was already pretty heavily involved in repairing R/C airplanes. I do a lot of giant scale 3D aerobatic airplanes, turbine jets, etc. SSOOOO, I had to clear my work bench. I am finishing the repair on a Yellow Aircraft F-15E Strike Eagle and that will be the last of it. I have told the guys that I will no longer be doing any aircraft building or repair as I won't have time for that anymore.

As for the Phantom II, I have completed the design on the little .12 boat and am drawing cut templates at this time for it. The kits will be lazer cut but the prototype boats will be cut on a band saw. I had no intentions of offering the .12 boat first but I got enthralled with the design as I have never did a boat that small. I posted a drawing of it earlier but since then I have made some changed. It will no longer be a 5 point hydro (2 front sponsons, 2 rear sponsons and a ski) but rather a 3 point hydro (2 front sponsons and a ski) as I do not see the necessity to have that much lift in the rear of the boat. The larger boats (larger than .21 size) will be the 5 point configuration.

The .65 boat or the CE is initially designed. Some guys have expressed their thoughts that I only use one set of plans and just enlarge or reduce them. This is absolutely not so! Each boat is designed to fit the requirements of it particular power source. In time, I will even design an electric boat which will be very different from the nitro and gas boats. Where the thought that I enlarged and reduced plans may have come from is my strict dedication to the Phantom design and making sure that all the different boats are easily recognized as a Phantom.

Being a born artist and designer, I am always thinking ahead to new pursuits. In the future (hopefully the near future) I will bring out some new designs that are not based on the original Phantom design. One will be the "Banshee". This boat will be a sports hydro that hopefully can bring the speed of this class of boats closer to the outriggers. I know, you say, "hell, you'll just blow over long before you get near that speed" but you don't know what I have up my sleeve, LOL! Another class that has always fascinated me is the Scale Unlimited Hydros. I may build a couple of kits that will be based on the pursuit of making them lighter and faster. No, no, don't say "hell, you will just blow over" I really think I can add something to this class with in the rules. I have been and always will be a fan of the 1973 Pay N Pack "Winged Wonder".

The final thing I have in mind is an outrigger hydro that pushes all the limits of design and technology as we currently know them. It will be a 4 point hydro but be very innovative when compared with current designs. So much so that I doubt I ever offer it as a kit in that it will need to be jig built in some sophisticated jigs. This boat pushes the limit of all my knowledge of aerodynamics and hydrodynamics. It will be called the "Switch Blade".

Well Guys, I guess I have talked enough for one evening, morning now, LOL! Take care and I will be posting pictures of the prototype .12 Phantom II build soon. Later! Joe

I can't wait to see all of that new technology and those new boats hit the market! I like the lines on the new .12 boat. Cool looking Old School!

Hi Andy, not exactly "old school". All of the outriggers I see being produced today have thrown aerodynamics out the window. Aerodynamics is very important to me and you will see me use it to the fullest extent on anything I design.

Really ? You may want to run against some of these outriggers and see how well they work and the type of racing abuse they can withstand . The current "BOXES " are running pretty fast ! It's Full Metal Jacket on the race course , bring your lunch !!

 

[KenOlvis]

Hello Tom

You said "The current "BOXES " are running pretty fast ! It's Full Metal Jacket on the race course , bring your lunch !!"

Sounds more like demolition derby guess its best to bring glue an cardboard not lunch lol

 

[Tom Foley]

Hello Tom

You said "The current "BOXES " are running pretty fast ! It's Full Metal Jacket on the race course , bring your lunch !!"

Sounds more like demolition derby guess its best to bring glue an cardboard not lunch lol

If you are actually going to race these boats you will need much more than that ! Nothing wrong with just play boating but it is sometimes unimaginable what it takes to get through a weekend of racing !!

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Tom, I don't know who crapped in your Post Toasties but I really don't understand the sarcasm? I don't make posts on this forum to offend anyone but rather share thoughts and information. There are guys that are interested in what I am doing and I try to keep them informed. I have never referred to other outrigger designs as "BOXES", those are your words! Your attacks on me and my boats are unfounded and I don't understand what you intend to gain by doing this! I started racing R/C boats in 1972. I have set 2 NAMBA speed records. I have won more races than I could ever count and have 4 large boxes of trophies to prove it. I really don't think you can educate me on the riggers of racing R/C boats.