Phantom & Phantom II

[JOEBISHOP]

Tom, we are both saying the same thing just referring to it differently. You are referring to an outboard and I am referring to an inboard. Positive angle (to me) refers to the rear of the strut being lower than the front of the strut. I raced drag boats for 11 years and also owned a boat dealership. I have always referred to the prop position this way but could be wrong. I was a Mercury/Mercruiser master technician and always referred to trimming the engine or lower unit as trim up or trim down referring to the bow of the boat. Joe

 

[JRXHydros]

Inboard or Outboard Tom Foley is Right!

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Just for sake of argument, what needs to be remembered is that, be it a scale or full sized unlimited, the power to weight ratio is roughly one horse is pushing two pounds. A rigger, not having all the hull weight or added fins and wings, is more like one horse pushing less than a pound so the driveline of a rigger needs to be approached differently than a full sized or scale hydroplane

 

[KenOlvis]

Just for sake of argument, what needs to be remembered is that, be it a scale or full sized unlimited, the power to weight ratio is roughly one horse is pushing two pounds. A rigger, not having all the hull weight or added fins and wings, is more like one horse pushing less than a pound so the driveline of a rigger needs to be approached differently than a full sized or scale hydroplane

This might help you think outside the box this is a message to me from Joe

Hi Ken, over the years I have redesigned the Phantom over and over in my mind. I mostly design something in my mind before I put it on paper. I think the Phantom would be competitive today as is but I have made it much better over the years (in my mind), LOL. What some guys don't realize is the fact that a good boat design (especially a hydroplane) depends on achieving 0 gravity while at speed. This means that (at speed) the boat weighs nothing. It doesn't push up nor down but neutralizes. Also in order to go fast while maintaining a straight line the boat needs to be aerodynamically stable. The reason an arrow has feathers on the trailing end (aerodynamic stability). This is displayed on the Phantom by it's fins on the inside of the sponsons. Another aspect that I have mulled over is the rudder. The rudder is necessary (on existing boat designs) to keep the boat straight and to make it turn. With that said, the rudder also causes the most parasitic drag of any part of the boat. I am working on a way to not eliminate the rudder but greatly decrease its parasitic effect. So anyway, this will be my considerations in designing the Phantom II. Joe

 

[Hydro Junkie]

And while there is a lot of truth to that, it more readily applies to a rigger than an unlimited. When you look at the aerodynamic drag, getting the boat to weigh nothing is much more difficult with an unlimited than with a rigger. Too lite and a scale goes over where a rigger doesn't have all the drag on top from drivers, cowling scoops or the tails and wings. Once a scale or unlimited starts to fly, the parasitic drag of the top structures pulls the front up and the air pressure on the large hull bottom takes it over, flipping the boat. Thrust angles and downforce both play a part in keeping the unlimited on the water. When driving an modern turbine unlimited, the driver actually adds downforce to the front of the boat to keep it on the water on the straights. In the corners, lift is added to keep the boat from hooking. This is in addition to the balancing of the hull through engine and gearbox placement, optional balancing ballast weights, etc

 

[JOEBISHOP]

WOW, how did this forum get off on arguing peoples opinions? This forum was started to update interested parties on the progress of the new Phantom II! You guys all have your own opinions and I respect that but that is not what this particular forum is about.

I guess this all started over my definition of positive and negative angles of attack of a boat's drive line. All I can say to that is I researched it for a couple of hours on the internet and found absolutely nothing referring to positive or negative. All the articles I found only referred to "in and out" and "up and down". I am like this about it, if someone can produce a accurate, published definition that is the opposite of my definition, I will gladly change my thinking but until then, I will continue to see it as I always have. Thanks! Joe

 

[JRXHydros]

No Arguing here...Go to Modelpowerboat.com

FC

 

[john urbowicz]

how about some pics of your build?

 

[Hydro Junkie]

WOW, how did this forum get off on arguing peoples opinions? This forum was started to update interested parties on the progress of the new Phantom II! You guys all have your own opinions and I respect that but that is not what this particular forum is about.

Who was arguing? If my posts seem argumentative, I will gladly remove them to keep piece in the "family"

 

[Hammerhead]

Like my signature says, "If it can be explained by the common laws of physics, it ain't fast enough". Some people spend more time trying to reason why things work and some things don't than actually building and running. In the end, the result is either good or bad. If it doesn't work one way, try it the other way.If you can't explain it in a fashion that others understand, who cares. At least you won't have to worry about people stealing your ideas.

I say, Good for you, Joe. I'm enjoying this thread.

Yes! I too, would like to see more build pics, Ken.

Thanks, Marty

 

[KenOlvis]

Like my signature says, "If it can be explained by the common laws of physics, it ain't fast enough". Some people spend more time trying to reason why things work and some things don't than actually building and running. In the end, the result is either good or bad. If it doesn't work one way, try it the other way.If you can't explain it in a fashion that others understand, who cares. At least you won't have to worry about people stealing your ideas.

I say, Good for you, Joe. I'm enjoying this thread.

Yes! I too, would like to see more build pics, Ken.

Thanks, Marty

Marty

I concur!!!!!!!

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Hi Guys

This evening, I will be posting the first drawings of the Phantom II .12 boat. As for finalized, maybe, maybe not but the drawings will give you a good idea of where the design is going. I never thought of posting pictures of the prototype build but I can do that if you Guys would like to see it. Thanks!! Joe

 

[john urbowicz]

Hi Joe. Some of us scratch build and enjoy seeing other's builds to learn new methods, etc.

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Hi Guys

I brought out of storage one of my original Phantom designs. The photos are of my prototype .90 Phantom. I never produced kits of this boat so this is the only one. The boat is now almost 40 years old. I think it has fared pretty good to be older than a lot of you, LOL! It has a Rossi .90 in it and the bearings still feel good, amazing! Thought I would post some pictures of the past for your enjoyment. Later! Joe

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Well, after down loading the pictures to the forum, I noticed that my wife's attempts to remove shadows didn't turn out so well. Actually the boat is very slick and shinny. Sorry, maybe she can redo them and I will post them again! Joe

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Well, I know I have been talking about the Phantom II for quiet a while now, so here is a first look at the Phantom II .12 boat. Attached is a 3 view concept drawing of the little boat. While retaining the look of my original Phantom, I have brought the design up to current technologies. I am sure some of you will have different opinions of how the boat should look and how it should be rigged and I welcome all of your opinions. After all, I am designing and building the boat for you Guys so that some day very soon you can buy a kit and build your own Phantom II. If outriggers are not your thing, I think you may enjoy the building segment of photos and text. Thanks! Joe

 

[KenOlvis]

Coolbeans Joe

Its so cool to see the old look in the new design. Many new features soon to be tested looking forward to test the boat and helping you get it ready for others to enjoy In all hydro classes.

Ken Olvis

 

[David Bryant]

I brought out of storage one of my original Phantom designs. The photos are of my prototype .90 Phantom. I never produced kits of this boat so this is the only one. The boat is now almost 40 years old

very nice design and fabrication for 40 years old......

 

[john urbowicz]

very nice. thanks for posting pics. could you tell us what the sponson booms are made of? when do you expect to run new boat?

 

[JOEBISHOP]

I brought out of storage one of my original Phantom designs. The photos are of my prototype .90 Phantom. I never produced kits of this boat so this is the only one. The boat is now almost 40 years old

very nice design and fabrication for 40 years old......

Hi David, when I designed the Phantom, I was in my late 20s and used to carry a drawing pad around with me every where I went. If I got an inspiration, I would sketch it on paper. I was never satisfied with the design until one night I woke up around 2:00 in the morning. It hit me like a bullet, I grabbed my drawing pad and I drew a sketch of what is now the Phantom. I woke my wife up and said "hey Dear, there it is" showing her my sketch. Needless to say she wasn't impressed at 2:00 AM, LOL! I am amazed that the boat has stayed in such good condition after almost 40 years! Joe