Nitro versus Gas

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Talking to a fellow boater at the last race who is carrying both gas a nitro products made a very convincing argument. How can you beat the cost of gas? After evaluating for a few days I still have the same question. There is common ratio floating around in the technoloty arena and that is the Cost to Performance Ratio. The better ratio used to belong to nitro but with gas performance continuing to increase and gas being so low what will the nitro manufacturers do to compete? Gas engines havemass production on their side keeping unit cost down with mass appeal and multiple uses such as weed eaters and the such. They are also gaining ground in cars, planes and even helicopters, where I thought vibration would keep them from growing in popularity but now I am told that is no longer the case.

So... what I want to know... (From the NItro Manufacturers) what are they going to do to maintain a foot hold in the market. It seems that merging with car engine companies is a good strategy... but will it help you lower the price of parts to contend with the fact that the fuel is 10 times more expensive.

I am not looking for doom and gloom responses here about the end of nitro. (Please if that is all you have to offer you need not comment) I am looking to hear some potentially effective ideas that maybe manufactturers can get an idea from to salvage this end of the market.

 

[BigChuck]

Roger

Do the math a F-mono RTR and Gas Mono ready to race. Only differecnce is the price of FUEL.

Rs 101 ...........$550 Full mod gas motor $500.

X467 Props Sholund $ 50 Brent Daily 6717 $75

don't know who you were taking to. But if they are racing it is all the same money.

 

[TimothyJones]

I'm nobody and I dont police Forums, :unsure: but this should be moved to general.

It could be a long one.

Tim

JE Products

 

[Mark Poole ModVP]

Well, I don't know where you are buying GAS parts, boats, engines, hardware and everything else for a gas boat for a LOW price. Gas hardware low? Gas engines low? Maybe it is different on the west coast but set up a gas cat or gas mono here on this side of the country that is competitive and you have put a good dent in your checking account. Do you guys run stock classes out there? No such thing here. That means spending BIG money for a correctly modded engine. Hulls are not cheap for gas either. So, I don't understand your post.

As far as performance vs. cost, nitro outboards cannot be beat. A $200 to $300 hull and a $300 to 500 engine can get you over 60 mph. B sport tunnel is easily the most bang for the buck. OK, so fuel is $35-$50 a gal. A 20 or 40 nitro boat burns very little of it. My tunnels burn 6 oz. of fuel per heat.

Don't forget to add the cost of the two stroke oil (I know Amsoil adds about $3 to each gal. mixed at 10oz/gal. So, fuel price is $6 per gal. (If you are using pump gas, which many are not, they are using AV/race gas, which is how much?? Oh, and since the rules for gas classes change with the wind, how much do you spend changing your boats around to run what you want to run in?

 

[HTV Boats]

Can't we all get along. I race both and will continue to. Gas are physically larger and take up more room but cost per boat is similar to top nitro equipment. Depends on what trips your trigger. I like less afterrun maintainence and not having to tune needles as much with prop & pipe changes. Fuel is cheaper but the real savings is "GLOW PLUGS". Two years ago we spent close to a grand in one year of racing and testing on glow plugs. That buys quite a few NGK's. When the pond gets rough on windy days it's nice to have those larger boats. Bring em all to the lakeand lets race.

Mic

 

[julianconde]

hey Roger it depends on what type of nitro class you are talking about VS Gas i own both nitro and gas. ok example below .21 Nitro VS Gas.

now if you buy a novarossi .21 Long stroke or 5 port compare to a gas engine

gas will be more expensive

i bought a AA/21 with header,tuned pipe and collet for $513 compare to a full mod gas engine alone

nitro is a bit better more for the price.

I Seaducer SD3 20 mono RTR i bought this boat for around $575 shipped thats about the cost of a full mod gas engine we dont even want to add the hull hardware ect,ect..

Novarossi .21 LS

three servos

mixture valve

Octura X440 Mod prop

fuel tanks

header

tuned pipe

Nitro will never die unless people are still running it.and the market is getting better for the nitro as fa as power,reliability.

you have Al Hobbs thats taking it upon himself to get a different type of nitro engine for the nitro boys also.

So in conclusion you can say the only thing that more expensive is the fuel. i use 65% nitro and 110 Octaine VP Race Fuel for my gas boats. Gas is better on fuel.

Money is the key to this hobbie as long as we spend the money for the hobbie both sides will still be there regardless but nitro will never die thats for sure.

julian

 

[Mark Poole ModVP]

My feelings exactly, we should all get along. You just never see the nitro side wanting to bring this stuff up.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

This was intended to be a question to manufacturers.. It wasn't meant to bash either NItro or Gas. Nevertheless it sounds like I am mistaken. Gas is not cheaper at all. I am not really into gas so I don't know much about their cost to be really competitive. If there is no difference than this post will serve to show people out there that there isn't... which is also good information to share. It lets people know that all the choices out there are fairly even.

I appreciate your information as will many I am sure.

 

[SayMikey]

Id say about even and I race both. Here is the difference your gas boat will come back almost every time. Cost for the weekend barring failures or lost props are cheaper for gas. Pipes and hardware for gas boats are much higher. I love them both and am securing a gas scale hydro right now. Price is about 1/3 more than a nitro scale,but you will see an instant 60mph vs hard work to get that from a nitro. O love this hobby but its killing my retirement LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Id say about even and I race both. Here is the difference your gas boat will come back almost every time. Cost for the weekend barring failures or lost props are cheaper for gas. Pipes and hardware for gas boats are much higher. I love them both and am securing a gas scale hydro right now. Price is about 1/3 more than a nitro scale,but you will see an instant 60mph vs hard work to get that from a nitro. O love this hobby but its killing my retirement LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

You have a class for gas scales?

 

[julianconde]

theres no fighting here i like both gas and nitro just alittle bit more work with nitro but when there on the money wow performance is expected. so i get along with everyone just putting information out there as far as both.

so people can have a perspective on the difference of both nitro and gas. B)

 

[julianconde]

yes there are classes for gas scale,mono cat,hydro,rigger,tunnel and all the open classes also.

 

[SayMikey]

Id say about even and I race both. Here is the difference your gas boat will come back almost every time. Cost for the weekend barring failures or lost props are cheaper for gas. Pipes and hardware for gas boats are much higher. I love them both and am securing a gas scale hydro right now. Price is about 1/3 more than a nitro scale,but you will see an instant 60mph vs hard work to get that from a nitro. O love this hobby but its killing my retirement LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

You have a class for gas scales?

They do in the Seattle area and its going to spread fairly quickly I do believe. Much different than T-Boats as pickles are King. See gas scale in sport boat section

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

yes there are classes for gas scale,mono cat,hydro,rigger,tunnel and all the open classes also.

I am aware of the mono, cat, sport and rigger... I had seen some attempts as a Gas Scale but not really scale as we have come to know it in nitro. I have also seen a gas tunnel but have no classes for either of those here in my district. Not yet anyway... Accept for maybe Classic Thunderboat... but that isn't really Scale either... more like a classic sport class with "Don't Ask-Don't Tell" stock motors LOL!

 

[julianconde]

thats pretty funny lol hey it happens if you see my signature all the boats i run are there lol

 

[julianconde]

what you run ??

 

[Al Hobbs]

I've been a nitro guy for more than, well let's just say a long time. I've also raced gas and when it comes down to it, racing is racing.

No question but that when you are into any kind of racing, it gets expensive. One of my friend's sons is into mountain bike racing. All of a sudden you are looking at $5000 bicycles, special clothes and back up parts.

Where does it get really expensive in boat racing? For me it is the travel costs and time. My closest race is 350 miles from my house. That is a 700 mile round trip, two nights in a motel, meals, and what ever other costs come up.

So, why go to a race? Because it is just too much fun to miss.

There are ways to reduce the costs. Share a room with someone. Stay at a friend's house. Pack a lunch.

The way to waste your money, time and effort is to buy equipment that does not perform, does not last, or you do not maintain it properly.

To answer Roger's question, the manufacturers, gas, nitro, whatever; should spend the time to design products that will perform properly without expensive mods, stand up to hard racing, and that are easy to maintain. To just accept what the manufacturer decides you should buy is a cop out. Whether it is the radio, engine, hardware, or hull manufacturer; they need to be responsive to what the consumer wants and needs. That starts with quality materials, quality workmanship, and a pride in what is produced.

Roger, that is why I have spent so much time in Italy at the Rossi factory. Every manufacturer wants to cut costs. If we just accept what they want to make, model boating will not survive. Performance will go down and prices will go up. As long as there are choices, the manufacturer must listen to the customer.

The customer speaks with his pocket. When you buy an engine, hull, radio, hardware, make certain you are getting the quality you want. If the quality is not there, make certain to let whoever you bought the product from know you are not happy and buy where you are happy.

Sonuvagun, it sounds like I am a conservative, free-market reactionary, I guess that I am.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

what you run ??

This year I am running my little 20 mono on Sats and my Twin Rigger on Suns. I also use my friend's Thunderboat to promote and keep that class going. My dad just got into a Gas mono this year so I am seeing how things go with that. I have run gas many times but usuall it's a guy saying "You wanna drive this for me this weekend?" LOL!

I started racing when I was 7 (now 39). My dad has been racing since the late 60s. I have run just about every nitro class accept tunnels.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

I've been a nitro guy for more than, well let's just say a long time. I've also raced gas and when it comes down to it, racing is racing.

No question but that when you are into any kind of racing, it gets expensive. One of my friend's sons is into mountain bike racing. All of a sudden you are looking at $5000 bicycles, special clothes and back up parts.

Where does it get really expensive in boat racing? For me it is the travel costs and time. My closest race is 350 miles from my house. That is a 700 mile round trip, two nights in a motel, meals, and what ever other costs come up.

So, why go to a race? Because it is just too much fun to miss.

There are ways to reduce the costs. Share a room with someone. Stay at a friend's house. Pack a lunch.

The way to waste your money, time and effort is to buy equipment that does not perform, does not last, or you do not maintain it properly.

To answer Roger's question, the manufacturers, gas, nitro, whatever; should spend the time to design products that will perform properly without expensive mods, stand up to hard racing, and that are easy to maintain. To just accept what the manufacturer decides you should buy is a cop out. Whether it is the radio, engine, hardware, or hull manufacturer; they need to be responsive to what the consumer wants and needs. That starts with quality materials, quality workmanship, and a pride in what is produced.

Roger, that is why I have spent so much time in Italy at the Rossi factory. Every manufacturer wants to cut costs. If we just accept what they want to make, model boating will not survive. Performance will go down and prices will go up. As long as there are choices, the manufacturer must listen to the customer.

The customer speaks with his pocket. When you buy an engine, hull, radio, hardware, make certain you are getting the quality you want. If the quality is not there, make certain to let whoever you bought the product from know you are not happy and buy where you are happy.

Sonuvagun, it sounds like I am a conservative, free-market reactionary, I guess that I am.

Thanks Al for your thoughtful reponse. It was more along the lines of what I was looking for.

 

[Al Hobbs]

I've known Roger since he was about 10 years old and I've known Roger Senior a bit longer than that. Nice boats, good driving, and friendly people; that is Roger Hooks Sr and Jr boat racing.