N-1 MONO

[T.S.Davis]

There is currently a 10 or 12 mph difference between N1mono and N2 mono. That's gigantic in a 22" boat.

The step up is not a gap to bridge. It's canyon.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

The two real good arguments for changing are:1. Decreasing the gap so that transitioning to N2 (or faster) is easier

2. Doing something (anything) to attempt to save N1 Hydro

...KW

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So now the rational is to try to make transitioning to N2 easier and to "save" N1 Hydro???

1. If N1 Monos are too slow... WHY would anyone be interested in running N1 Hydro? We don't even run N2 Hydro out here... though, a few of us are trying to change that...

2. A step UP in class from N1 to N2 is SUPPOSE to bridge a performance gap. Are you trying to tell me that people want this to be LESS of a step? What incentive would they have to change, and shell out the $$$ for new equipment for a higher performance class, if it not THAT much of an increase???

NOT very convincing...

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I guess we should have added amendments to totally eliminate N1 Hydro and N2 Hydro. After all, these classes are not even run in Seattle. What is wrong with the rest of us fools?

Darin, how many of those eight 27T motors, that you said you have, are professionally tuned?

Just trying to get a grasp of how you are going about entering this "beginners" class.

Are you looking for education or class domination?

Not very concincing? As if anything is going to convince you otherwise! :lol:

KW

 

[drobie]

Are badly are we going to beat this topic into submission?

 

[crowebar]

Ahh come on Doug, Kevin is pleading me to get back at him!

Those extra 3 MPH will make all the difference huh. Oh ya, I did run a 19.

So how long till this one bores you guys. I guess no other spec class stays spec either, why should we be any different.

Alright, let the chips fall where they may.

Dick

 

[T.S.Davis]

2,3, or 5 to 8 mph. Which is it already?

Doug, we're only going to beat it until nobody cares anymore or until the freekin water melts. LOL

Then we wont have time to debate jack.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

2,3, or 5 to 8 mph.  Which is it already?
Doug, we're only going to beat it until nobody cares anymore or until the freekin water melts. LOL 

Then we wont have time to debate jack.

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Something has got to melt it

Maybe heat generated from angry keystrokes?

 

[crowebar]

3 MPH if that on my sons N1 Mono. Perhaps the 5 to 8 MPH was on a N1 Hydro.

It will also depend on the condition of the motors. The 27 turn that my son runs is a strong motor. The 19 was borrowed but in good shape.

1. Old tribal customs. "We have always done it this way"

From one tribal leader to the next, thank you cheif Whitehead

2. It works in Seattle.

And that is a bad reason?

3. Those who want 19T just want speed for themselves.

But that's all I've heard.

4. It is impossible that a slightly faster N1 boat could attract beginners, anywhere.

You've got me there. I'm always looking for more speed. Not sure if that should be the goal in a spec class though.

5. I already have a 27T motor (or eight) and I do not want to buy a 19T motor

Actually I don't and I'm pretty sure the 20+ guys who run the class out here don't want to either?

I know, not your problem. Fair enough. It goes to a vote the way it should!

Don't take it personal Kevin, I think we still ride the same side of the fence and can't wait to meet you at MI.

Dick

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Well,

If it (or any other class for that matter) was really an honest spec class, motors (whatever the wind)would all be the same, sealed-can handed out randomly at the race/return at the end. Same thing with a six cell pack or two.

Maybe even limit the hull materials!

Take the power of the fat wallet out of the picture and allow only hull tuning and driving to decide the victors.

It ought to be like IROC.

As it is now, the "spec classes" are just as polluted by bank accounts or team affiliations as the open classes.

KW

 

[Dan Proulx]

The 5 to 8 mph wasn't on an N1 hydro. It is on an N1 Mono and I'd be glad to show you the difference in Michigan if you wish. I also buy at least one new 27T motor each year for the Batavia race. After that race I never use it again. So my comparision is between a well ran Trinity Chameleon and the 27T du jour.

Our change was because our own club needed the participation of "all" the regular racers to help out with N1 Mono in order to sustain it's life. So in a way, yes, the veteran racers in our club wanted a little more speed to make this class worth their while. I'm not certain that this is a bad thing. On a club level we don't routinely run many of the open classes so I get my speed fix where I can.

I do, however, understand, why you wouldn't like the spec change. You've got a large following of 27T boats and it's nice to have the national regs support what you're doing. Congratulations!

Unfortunately the same can't be said for rest of us.

Dan

 

[AlanN]

Pssst Guys...I just wanted to know what motor I had to buy. :huh:

 

[Darin Jordan]

Darin, how many of those eight 27T motors, that you said you have, are professionally tuned?
Just trying to get a grasp of how you are going about entering this "beginners" class.

Are you looking for education or class domination?

KW

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I don't recall saying I had 8 motors, but I do have 5 of them (2 P2K2s, 1 P2K, 1 Epic, which is going to be the "ONE", and the other of a brand which I can't recall right off hand...), all currently being broken in at a professional ROAR motor turner... Special brushes, attention to detail, specially selected springs, custom connectors for the power leads, etc... all those things that make these motors as efficient as possible...

I'm a racer, not a student... I need to learn to drive one of these things in a race situation and I need to learn to prep to win... Does that mean I can't have the best equipment I can afford?

Sorry guys, if it's a crime to like to be up to par on the equipment, I'm sorry but I'm guilty...

I suppose if I wanted to be an also ran, I could have just gone out and purchased the "27T du jour"... Or make up for my lack of preparation by dropping in an out of the box 19T...

Just because I'm a beginner doesn't mean I can't take my race prep seriously... It's nice to know that the EQUIPMENT isn't what's holding you back... leaves only yourself to point figures at when you can't hack it...

NOW, let's get away from the personal attacks and get back to the topic... Namely, the REASON WHY this change is REALLY taking place...

 

[T.S.Davis]

haha

Allan, NICE! see what ya started?

Kevin has a point. If you hire a guy (an expert lets say) to build/tune/love/rub/talk to your motor just the right way so that you have that little dribble of extra speed is it still a "spec" class?

 

[brooks93]

Namely, the REASON WHY this change is REALLY taking place...

There is no reason that you would ever agree with..

its the guys on this side of the states that would like change.. Plan and simple..

You don't like it but, others do.. just going to have to vote and hope for the best on both sides

 

[brooks93]

Kevin has a point. If you hire a guy (an expert lets say) to build/tune/love/rub/talk to your motor just the right way so that you have that little dribble of extra speed is it still a "spec" class?

Thats exactly why I got out of Sedan racing.. These guys and some uber nerd that new his motors inside and out hand his racer a fresh motor every darn heat.. and it was a stock class for beginners... so I went to 19t spec racing.. you had to run a curtain motor, with only one kind of brush and springs.. thats it.. no tweaking of any kind beside a comm brush that you used to clean the comm.. no laths

then it got fun again

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Darin, how many of those eight 27T motors, that you said you have, are professionally tuned?
Just trying to get a grasp of how you are going about entering this "beginners" class.

Are you looking for education or class domination?

KW

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I don't recall saying I had 8 motors, but I do have 5 of them (2 P2K2s, 1 P2K, 1 Epic, which is going to be the "ONE", and the other of a brand which I can't recall right off hand...), all currently being broken in at a professional ROAR motor turner... Special brushes, attention to detail, specially selected springs, custom connectors for the power leads, etc... all those things that make these motors as efficient as possible...

I'm a racer, not a student... I need to learn to drive one of these things in a race situation and I need to learn to prep to win... Does that mean I can't have the best equipment I can afford?

Sorry guys, if it's a crime to like to be up to par on the equipment, I'm sorry but I'm guilty...

I suppose if I wanted to be an also ran, I could have just gone out and purchased the "27T du jour"... Or make up for my lack of preparation by dropping in an out of the box 19T...

Just because I'm a beginner doesn't mean I can't take my race prep seriously... It's nice to know that the EQUIPMENT isn't what's holding you back... leaves only yourself to point figures at when you can't hack it...

NOW, let's get away from the personal attacks and get back to the topic... Namely, the REASON WHY this change is REALLY taking place...

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Personal attack? When all else fails, become a victim, That is really popular these days.

See Post #18 on this thread. Looks like an eight to me.

Just don't bounce around between boards on a Jihad to maintain 27T , acting like a poorly funded beginner, while you intend to come into the class and monitarily (at least) stomp the crap out of the low-budget guys.

KW

 

[Darin Jordan]

Just don't bounce around between boards on a Jihad to maintain 27T , acting like a poorly funded beginner, while you intend to come into the class and monitarily (at least) stomp the crap out of the low-budget guys.
KW

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Since when did spending your money wisely make you "well funded"???

And for the record, I actually have about 26 stock 27T motors... all purchased in two bulk purchases and one single purchase from E-Bay, all for about the cost of two new stock motors... Out of those motors, I ended up with 5 that were top notch, well cared for, and nearly new 27T race worthy motors...

Doing things right... and being smart about how you spend your money, doesn't mean you have a lot of it... especially when you trade favors with the member in the club who happens to own a side business prepping RC car motors and owns all the lathes, dynos, etc., has his own brand of specialty brushes and springs, etc...

Sorry if that offends you... but there is no "acting" involved here... Go try to make the purchases I've made, only with a 19T spec motor as a target... SLIM pickings at best... I personally don't have the $$$ to fund another set of motors, and I thought I had made some good deals to get the ones I have...

Look, vote as you will, but don't go telling us we are wrong for wanting to preserve the NATIONAL rules for a class just becuase some of the DISTRICTs decided not to follow them any more... You tell US we can still run 27T... We're telling YOU you can still run 19T...

Enough of this, I think the points have been made well... If we ever receive ballots, I'm sure everyone will vote for what is best for them... We'll see what happens after that...

 

[T.S.Davis]

Just a couple more thoughts.

Just how moch DOES it cost to have your motor prepared by a professional ROAR motor tunner?

I had one done for $40 that included the motor. Not sure if the company that did it for me was "the" company but I was satisfied. 5 of those is $200. That is NOTHING in FE racing. If it was $100 per motor that would still be cheap by FE standards.

Is cost impact the number one objection?

Also, are there objections from other than Seattle? My ignorance again.

BTW Darin your right on the 8 boat heats but it's not a safety rule. So a club can run 9 boat heats if it wants. If they host a NATS then it's back to 8 boat heats. Maybe Seattle should propose a change to the NAMBA rule book allowing 9 boat heats. It's obviously the right thing to do. I'm just being a weeny now. Don't shoot me.

Now that I think about it, this 19t vote only matters for the NATS. If it passes and Seattle wants to run 27t they can and likely will. If it doesn't pass then the rest of the country will continue to do whatever they are doing.

As it stands right now today there are less entries for N1 mono for the biggest FE NATS in history than Seattle runs for a club race. If it stays 27t and as a result loses so many entries that the class isn't run I would be dissapointed as will the guys that run it. To say that N1 has little following outside of Seattle is not an exageration.

We'll see.

 

[Darin Jordan]

To say that N1 has little following outside of Seattle is not an exageration.
We'll see.

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I understand that... Must be the water...

 

[brooks93]

I understand that... Must be the water... 

well you guys do have nice water.. I remember how clear it was when I was out there and meet Dick, Ray, Larry and the gang..

Darin I admire your drive and not cave under preasure..and in the end I am sure nothing will be changed but, if it does pass don't feel like you have to switch just talk to your club and come to an agreement that you guys will only run 27t

 

[Al Waters]

Hi Guys................

seven pages of posts and now it is time to vote. I was informed last night that the NAMBA Propwash is at the mail house so you should receive it shortly.

I do not race electric......but I do vote. There will be a lot of FE members that will not vote as well as nitro and gas memebers that will vote.

The history of voting is that most people who do not run in that class of boats will not vote as they do not want to have the wrong impact. The other is that they may not understand the proposals. And thirdly, most people will automatically vote yes, because they figure if someone went to the trouble of putting the proposals together, it must be for the good of the class.

All of you have very strong feelings about the proposals and that is good. But are there enough of you to pass or fail the proposals?

Its time to go outside the bun

Al Waters

NAMBA Vice President

NAMBA Scale Unlimited Chairman