Let's talk gas/oil mix...

[Mike Neal]

I have a somewhat related question. Do you guys have an opinion on the best approach to breaking in a gas engine? I know you can run around the pond, but do you use a different oil? I break mine in with petroleum based oil, but race synthetic. Do you do any pre-pond bench running? I read awhile back about temperature cycling new pistons/rings on motorcycles. You were supposed to run the motor rpm up and down, shut it down, let it cool, then repeat 3-4 times before taking it on the road. Do you have an opinion on how long it takes to break-in an engine or do you just know it when you see it at the pond? One guy I know will break in a brand new motor, then swap out the ring for a new one, and take that to the race. Any thoughts or opinions?

 

[Wasted wages]

Break-in is probably as big a spectrum as this fuel thread I started. Hundreds of ways to do it and they are all the best way,, to the owner.

I am glad I started this thread as it has been very informative to me and hopefully others..
I think break-in would be a good topic for discussion...

 

[Steve White]

^^^ Right you are.

And the potential for heated debate is high - everyone is keeping their cool.

With regard to "To Dyno or not to dyno?" so to speak, I always look at it this way. This is my original quote that had origins back into the pro audio forums amplifier & speaker wars. My brand of choice amp in the 80's is/was hated and based by many as they could and would fail in spectacular fashion if improperly setup. Same holds true today for JBL, dbx, Crown. all brands I run. As well, for OPS engines which I also run.

"Hand an idiot the keys to a Ferrari and the results will likely be spectacular" - do we blame Enzo or fault his product? Are Lamborghini's, Maserati's, Corvette's,or Bugatti's better? It's all about who's sitting behind the steering wheel. In pro audio it's not about the brand, it's about the engineer - always has been, always will be.

As a newer participant in RC boating forums, but a 20+ year online veteran it's the same dance on any forum - Cuban cigars -vs- Dominican - the battles rage on.

There are always 3rd rail or hot button topics. It then becomes a function of forum moderation in how far out of control things degenerate to. Forums where the mods are less skilled in eloquence, they are heavy handed and simply lock threads, some delete threads, sometimes just a public no-no, and some use PM's or of course "BANNED". This site appears to moderated very well and the members respect one another for the most part -0 which in turn makes it comfortable to participate in the discussion.

A thanks to the mods!

 

[Wasted wages]

Everyone in the discussion has been very civil and informative... I appreciate that.

In the small pro audio circle I ran in, I managed to eek out a couple of first place trophy's...
mostly in audio quality and soundstage presence. A few for installation quality and design.
My equipment of choice was:
Head units and EQ's... Alpine
Amps...JL Audio and Kenwood
Subs... 10" MTX" s
Speakers and satellite's and x-overs... infinity

Wasn't into DB drag racing...mostly install quality and soundstage...I could do a lot with 128 DB...

 

[Steve White]

Everyone in the discussion has been very civil and informative... I appreciate that.

In the small pro audio circle I ran in, I managed to eek out a couple of first place trophy's...
mostly in audio quality and soundstage presence. A few for installation quality and design.
My equipment of choice was:
Head units and EQ's... Alpine
Amps...JL Audio and Kenwood
Subs... 10" MTX" s
Speakers and satellite's and x-overs... infinity

Wasn't into DB drag racing...mostly install quality and soundstage...I could do a lot with 128 DB...

I knew there was something about you I liked... I was into pro audio late 70's and through the 80's - going back in when I retire from aerospace. SQ builds all the way in the car audio and really everything else.

Something out of the portfolio in 1988 from "Back in the day" Did a lot of club work, both portable stuff with touring bands and design/installs on a few dance clubs. Ears still ring.

 

[Wasted wages]

That is too cool !!!
I bet those were good times!

What was the largest venue you ever did ?
did you ever get to do like coliseum size setups?
I would loved to have played with that kind of power... massive stacks of amps, consoles,, lighting,, speaker cabinets... real power !!

 

[Steve White]

That is too cool !!!
I bet those were good times!

What was the largest venue you ever did ?
did you ever get to do like coliseum size setups?
I would loved to have played with that kind of power... massive stacks of amps, consoles,, lighting,, speaker cabinets... real power !!

Yeah me too. That was one of many club jobs, just before "Welcome to the Jungle" exploded on the FM radio. Ballroom size stuff, maybe 1000 seat gigs was all I could handle and doing that I would borrow stuff. Traded gear back and forth with several other sound guys and some DJ's I knew.

Yeah they were good times for sure - Fast Times at Ridgemont High & Animal House combined. Re-entry was a little rough if you know what I mean.

Like Bill Murray said on Stripes "You and I need to party sometime" - I've been as far as St. Louis from Fort Worth for a race - maybe we cross paths someday.

Sorry to divert off topic sir.

 

[Wasted wages]

Yes sir maybe our paths will cross... definitely share a beer or something..

no problem on the thread derail.... it's kinda what I do best on some other forums I visit too...

Ok... Back on track !!

 

[Steve White]

It just kinda "happens"

Looking for a handbill from a Montrose ballroom show also in the late 80's. Las Vegas room at the Hacienda also in Fresno - a great show!

Back in Black, I mean back on track...

 

[David Bryant]

In the small pro audio circle I ran in, I managed to eek out a couple of first place trophy's...
mostly in audio quality and soundstage presence. A few for installation quality and design.
My equipment of choice was:
Head units and EQ's... Alpine
Amps...JL Audio and Kenwood
Subs... 10" MTX" s
Speakers and satellite's and x-overs... infinity

I'm a home theater/AV surround guy, who loves music.

Using:
Marantz AV8005 surround processer
Parasound Halo A51 5-channel amp (250W X 5)
Monitor Audio Gold GX-100 fronts
Monitor Audio Gold GX-350 center
Monitor Audio Gold GX-FX rears
JL Audio F110 Fantom subwoofer

Movies and music sound sweet!

(sorry, don't mean to go off-topic here)

 

[Wasted wages]

Nice set up !!!
Don't worry about the derail...it'll circle back around to gas and oil soon enough...

 

[Steve White]

Dave, that's very nice. Since we're off the main line here, gitcha summa this! The home entertainment rack. Two channel music system rack is behind it and still under construction. The amp sitting on the left of the rack on the floor is a 1978 Phase Linear Dual-500 that's been completely restored by Les at Fort Worth Audio - it'll punch 4 JBL 2245 18's in JBL MD7 enclosures in the den and no the room isn't that big. Sorry for the blur, camera not cooperating tonight. Yep, that's 4 x dbx Driveracks in the system. One for the den 3-way 2ch music, 2 x for the whole house system as zone controllers and one for the HT 3-way center channel.

This is a window into my state of mental illness...

 

[David Bryant]

Dave, that's very nice. Since we're off the main line here, gitcha summa this! The home entertainment rack. Two channel music system rack is behind it and still under construction. The amp sitting on the left of the rack on the floor is a 1978 Phase Linear Dual-500 that's been completely restored by Les at Fort Worth Audio - it'll punch 4 JBL 2245 18's in JBL MD7 enclosures in the den and no the room isn't that big. Sorry for the blur, camera not cooperating tonight. Yep, that's 4 x dbx Driveracks in the system. One for the den 3-way 2ch music, 2 x for the whole house system as zone controllers and one for the HT 3-way center channel.

This is a window into my state of mental illness...

crazy

 

[Wasted wages]

Dave, that's very nice. Since we're off the main line here, gitcha summa this! The home entertainment rack. Two channel music system rack is behind it and still under construction. The amp sitting on the left of the rack on the floor is a 1978 Phase Linear Dual-500 that's been completely restored by Les at Fort Worth Audio - it'll punch 4 JBL 2245 18's in JBL MD7 enclosures in the den and no the room isn't that big. Sorry for the blur, camera not cooperating tonight. Yep, that's 4 x dbx Driveracks in the system. One for the den 3-way 2ch music, 2 x for the whole house system as zone controllers and one for the HT 3-way center channel.

This is a window into my state of mental illness...

View attachment 288946

Dude,,,
each 18" is 600 watts continuous @ 20 hz..x 4?

Not only will your ears be ringing,,, but your gonna get heart arrhythmia !!!

When can I come over and listen to it !

 

[Steve White]

^^^ Nope, ya don't ring it out. There is a single MD7 with a pair of JBL 2245's powered by a Carver TFM-35x in there currently. Leaning on it causes nausea and I'm not kidding. 10-15 minutes and you will turn it down and it's not ear piercing decibels that cause the discomfort - it the intensity of the low frequency energy.

It's just solid sounding ya know. Run it with respect or it will hurt you. What it does is expands the virtual perception of the stage in the music. You're sitting in front of Armageddon and it's perceptive. It really is - it sounds big. I equate it to taking a Sunday drive to the lake in a Ferrari or Lamborghini - even cruising around at the speed limit it's still a ride in a super car.

The Dual-500 is rated at 800W RMS/channel at 4 ohms and those amps were rated conservatively with tons of dynamic headroom. I was going to put the Dual-500 on eBay when it came back from Les at FW audio. Thinking about the level of overkill and having $2K invested in a low frequency amp is a lot of money. I hooked it up and listened to it for about 15 minutes of testing and called Les on a Saturday afternoon and said, that amp will be in my estate......he laughed. He got several inquires about it from other customers. The only other vintage amp I would compare to the Dual-500 is the SAE 2600 which was another beast. I've got Crown MacroTech MA5000i's in the pro system that are rated at 2500W RMS/Ch at 4 ohms - they will do that - the Dual-500 sounds better - it's a HiFi amp old school with a massive power supply and many Joules of stored energy in the power supply capacitors.

I always wanted a Dual-500 back in the day and they were $1500, just couldn't afford it.

Size matters.

 

[Wasted wages]

Massive power....that's impressive for home use...!!

 

[Steve White]

^^^ It's the low frequency bandwidth that creates the perception of size. Like the T-Rex approaching on Jurassic Park - not loud, but the ground shaking and the water glass vibrating - ya know something big is coming. A single 18" driver would cover the room ok, a good 15" placed well would even do it. That's why I decided to unleash the Dual-500 and load it up with 4 x 18's, just for the maximum dynamic impact and infrasonic energy.

Ok, now back to fuel and oil, Dyno's and such. It was a good time for an intermission anyway - things were getting a little sporty.

 

[Wasted wages]

Thanks for the diversion,,,and the insight to a cool part of your life... definitely some nice audio equipment you have there !

High performance can take many shapes and sizes !!

 

[John Beardslee]

Another great oil that is over looked by many is the “Stihl” Ultra synthetic. I know of a number of giant scale pylon racers were using it with success but that’s been a few years ago. It was available at every Stihl dealer.

 

[Wasted wages]

I was thinking about those guy's the other day,,the ones that run "Hotsaws"... I bet their knowledge about 2 stroke engines and fuel/oils might be another place to look for good info.
Some of them old boy's been working on saws for a long, long time...

Those saws cut through the logs like butter!
..and they have to be tuned to the max..
one pull starts, almost every single time.