LAYDOWN ENGINE

[NOVALTD]

Marty Davis: I was looking through some old vintage photos and found a picture of a rigger you made with a laydown engine Did you find any benefits in the laydown engine over the conventional upright engine rigger? If so what were they? Thanks for your support?--DAN-----

 

[Marty Davis]

I think the 20 sized lay downs were better than the upright but I am just guessing. We won US#1 twice with the 20 size.

The K&B engines with the carb on the side were perfect in a lay down configuration as it made the carb upright. We did have some trouble with the carb on the side if you got ANY water in the engine compartment. That is what started me thinking about doing it.

I remember going to Ft Worth to the Internats and we took 4 laydown 21's. For Myself, Howie Whitaker, Don Bilsky and Mike Wisniewski. Mike was th Son of the K&B engine designer Bill Wisniewski. Mike brought all the engines for all 4 of us. The boats were really strong in heat race trim and competitive in SAW and Oval trim. I remember that Andy Brown and a couple of Norwegians were also super strong too in the 21 class.

The 67 size is a different story. It REALLY looked cool but was difficult to keep the engine tight on the mount. If we would have been going as fast as we are today, it might have been a little better.... Who knows.

Probably more than you wanted to know, but I couldn't skip some Nostalgia.

 

[KenOlvis]

The first lay down .21 I ever seen was by Ed huey

 

[Marty Davis]

He was my first Mentor. He and I started right at the same time with the laydowns. Not completely sure who came up with the idea first - doesn't really matter. Maybe even someone else besides us. I was down the road a bunch by that time and was manufacturing Crapshooter Boats. He and I were fierce competitors and great friends, especially in 20 hydro.

 

[Andy Brown]

I think the 20 sized lay downs were better than the upright but I am just guessing. We won US#1 twice with the 20 size.

The K&B engines with the carb on the side were perfect in a lay down configuration as it made the carb upright. We did have some trouble with the carb on the side if you got ANY water in the engine compartment. That is what started me thinking about doing it.

I remember going to Ft Worth to the Internats and we took 4 laydown 21's. For Myself, Howie Whitaker, Don Bilsky and Mike Wisniewski. Mike was th Son of the K&B engine designer Bill Wisniewski. Mike brought all the engines for all 4 of us. The boats were really strong in heat race trim and competitive in SAW and Oval trim. I remember that Andy Brown and a couple of Norwegians were also super strong too in the 21 class.

The 67 size is a different story. It REALLY looked cool but was difficult to keep the engine tight on the mount. If we would have been going as fast as we are today, it might have been a little better.... Who knows.

Probably more than you wanted to know, but I couldn't skip some Nostalgia.

They laydowns got popular in the late 70's after Marty and Hughey began running the set up. Many guys built them with all sorts of engines, but the K&B 3.5 was the most popular set up. Building the boat was much more complex. Outside of the K&B 3.5 set up the benefits were little to none and certainly not worth the complexity.

Marty, The Ft.Worth Internats that I attended was 1994. I think you, Howie, Don, and Mike would have been there around 1979 with those laydown boats.

Great memories of a very innovative era in r/c boat racing!

 

[KenOlvis]

He was my first Mentor. He and I started right at the same time with the laydowns. Not completely sure who came up with the idea first - doesn't really matter. Maybe even someone else besides us. I was down the road a bunch by that time and was manufacturing Crapshooter Boats. He and I were fierce competitors and great friends, especially in 20 hydro.

Coolbeans Marty I mean no disrespect to you sir.

DRV2WIN

Ken

 

[Bill Zawada]

I know two guy's that tried a twin 20 rigger with lay down engines. 3.5 K&B'S.

Tony Castranova is one, and I won't admit I was the other. It was the best running TUG around.

Eric Swensen had the biggest laugh in those day's. Yes Marty, Great Memories.

The best part, if we ran it had to be with the twin 90'S. Rule is a twin is a twin.

Bill

 

[NOVALTD]

Andy,Marty: Looking at the photo of Martys 21 laydown it appeared to me to be a good idea. Why six reasons over the conventional setup.

1. Lower CG

2. Lower frontal area

3. Offset counter rotating forces (left sponson laying flat if engine glow plug facing left sponson}

4. Better laminator flow

5. Fuel tank on CG if constructed correctly

6. Lower drive shaft angle- If constructed correctly.( less friction)

PS: What tub clearance have you found that works the best for the 21 riggers? 1/2 , 5/8, 3/4 inch? --------DAN--------

 

[Marty Davis]

My 2 reasons not to build a laydown trump your 6.

1. Difficult to build that way and will weigh more because of the extra bulkheads, etc that it takes to build.

2. Little or no benefit to doing this. If you were in the boat building business, maybe it would be as a novelty to get people to buy. Hint Hint

Just build a 20 boat as light as you can and as large as you can and you should be good to go...

If you just want to build one because it is cool and neat, that is a great reason to do it too. Same thing as building a twin 21. Not very competitive, but cool sounds and neat look.

 

[FloridaScaleBoater]

I know two guy's that tried a twin 20 rigger with lay down engines. 3.5 K&B'S.

Tony Castranova is one, and I won't admit I was the other. It was the best running TUG around.

Eric Swensen had the biggest laugh in those day's. Yes Marty, Great Memories.

The best part, if we ran it had to be with the twin 90'S. Rule is a twin is a twin.

Bill

Arthur Rice (I believe) Jacksonville ran one also

 

[Ronnie Lerew]

It's great to read topic's like this. I have been running boats on and off since I was 16 now 59, not in a mainstream competitive forum just run for fun. Anyway you guy's could post some pictures of the set-ups.

Ron

 

[stan simpson iv]

I know two guy's that tried a twin 20 rigger with lay down engines. 3.5 K&B'S.

Tony Castranova is one, and I won't admit I was the other. It was the best running TUG around.

Eric Swensen had the biggest laugh in those day's. Yes Marty, Great Memories.

The best part, if we ran it had to be with the twin 90'S. Rule is a twin is a twin.

Bill

Arthur Rice (I believe) Jacksonville ran one also

Yes he did...

 

[mark ham]

My DAd had a 20 and it ran good, it was lighter than the Hughey's that we were running at the time and cornered better, that's when racing was fun, not as much now a days.

 

[Marty Davis]

Mark:

I agree with you about fun.

Seems like both organizations (IMPBA and NAMBA) started adding classes in the 90's and up and they have never stopped. With a District Race, we now have somewhere around 19 classes for a 2 day race. That is between Nitro and gas. So we get to race maybe 11 other people if we are lucky in our class. Doesn't make it much fun or much sense.

This nitro race in January is one that we are looking forward to. Along with the Charleston and Hobart races. Those are the way it should be with 30+ people to race in our classes.

Maybe we should start just having special races and skip the district races for our clubs. It is just an unworkable situation as it is.

Oh well.....

 

[Andy Brown]

Mark:

I agree with you about fun.

Seems like both organizations (IMPBA and NAMBA) started adding classes in the 90's and up and they have never stopped. With a District Race, we now have somewhere around 19 classes for a 2 day race. That is between Nitro and gas. So we get to race maybe 11 other people if we are lucky in our class. Doesn't make it much fun or much sense.

This nitro race in January is one that we are looking forward to. Along with the Charleston and Hobart races. Those are the way it should be with 30+ people to race in our classes.

Maybe we should start just having special races and skip the district races for our clubs. It is just an unworkable situation as it is.

Oh well.....

"Maybe we should start just having special races and skip the district races for our clubs. It is just an unworkable situation as it is."

I agree Marty! Specialty races make much more sense in this new age of 50 ? different classes. The writing is on the wall. Specialty races are already better attended and more successful than district type races that attempt to include too many classes.

Looking forward to the Winter Nitro Champs!

 

[dwilfong]

You build it thy will come.....................................................I think this has already proven its point.....................

2 large races in FL 2 weeks apart in January 2016.

There will be close to 500 boats between the two races when it is all said and done.

One race with all the classes combined would never happen with this many boats.

Things have a way of working them self out in the long run.

Maybe in 2017 thy can be held back to back.

 

[sbowden21]

Mark:

I agree with you about fun.

Seems like both organizations (IMPBA and NAMBA) started adding classes in the 90's and up and they have never stopped. With a District Race, we now have somewhere around 19 classes for a 2 day race. That is between Nitro and gas. So we get to race maybe 11 other people if we are lucky in our class. Doesn't make it much fun or much sense.

This nitro race in January is one that we are looking forward to. Along with the Charleston and Hobart races. Those are the way it should be with 30+ people to race in our classes.

Maybe we should start just having special races and skip the district races for our clubs. It is just an unworkable situation as it is.

Oh well.....

YEP 15-20 classes 2 days and usually 150-200 boat limit makes no sense at all.... we are lucky up here if we have more than 6 or 7 people to race against in most classes.... We are changing our approach as well only big/specialty races for us... Sorry to get this off topic but if nothing changes soon there will be no more district races in some areas.. some areas are already in that position... See you guys in a few weeks we are looking forward to it and will keep the nitro winter champs on our schedule for years to come!

 

[mark ham]

I agree Marty, I would rather run 3 or 4 big races a year with more entries per class than district races where your lucky to get 5 or 6 boats. Back in the day we ran a district race almost every month and we ran club races between Jacksonvillle, Orlando and Edgewater every month and had good turnouts for both, club races were a blast, of course this was when it was only nitro, we usually finished in time to have fun races after everything was done. Cal Lange and I had a runoff at Orlando one year and I got watered down at buoy 1, so the next race at Lakeland we ran a grudge match after the races just for fun, you can't do that now hardly. That's was Cal's Super Tigre/K&B rear rotor .21, he had some fast boats but didn't always like to turn. I beat him in the rematch, he was way off on the clock, lol, his 21 was fast back then though.

 

[Marty Davis]

I agree Marty, I would rather run 3 or 4 big races a year with more entries per class than district races where your lucky to get 5 or 6 boats. Back in the day we ran a district race almost every month and we ran club races between Jacksonvillle, Orlando and Edgewater every month and had good turnouts for both, club races were a blast, of course this was when it was only nitro, we usually finished in time to have fun races after everything was done. Cal Lange and I had a runoff at Orlando one year and I got watered down at buoy 1, so the next race at Lakeland we ran a grudge match after the races just for fun, you can't do that now hardly. That's was Cal's Super Tigre/K&B rear rotor .21, he had some fast boats but didn't always like to turn. I beat him in the rematch, he was way off on the clock, lol, his 21 was fast back then though.

Mark:

Exactly correct.

I also remember Cal Lang and had some races with him. Not as many as you since I was in Indiana, but he was fast. Even shared the info about his engine and I built one like his. He and Larry Beals were really good friends. I understand he lives someplace around here, but I haven't seen him. Maybe he will show up sometime.

 

[Joe Warren]

Mark:

I agree with you about fun.

Seems like both organizations (IMPBA and NAMBA) started adding classes in the 90's and up and they have never stopped. With a District Race, we now have somewhere around 19 classes for a 2 day race. That is between Nitro and gas. So we get to race maybe 11 other people if we are lucky in our class. Doesn't make it much fun or much sense.

This nitro race in January is one that we are looking forward to. Along with the Charleston and Hobart races. Those are the way it should be with 30+ people to race in our classes.

Maybe we should start just having special races and skip the district races for our clubs. It is just an unworkable situation as it is.

Oh well.....

YEP 15-20 classes 2 days and usually 150-200 boat limit makes no sense at all.... we are lucky up here if we have more than 6 or 7 people to race against in most classes.... We are changing our approach as well only big/specialty races for us... Sorry to get this off topic but if nothing changes soon there will be no more district races in some areas.. some areas are already in that position... See you guys in a few weeks we are looking forward to it and will keep the nitro winter champs on our schedule for years to come!

Sam you guys will like the Nitro Nations in Florida. This race is Put on by all experienced boaters that provide Great Competition & know how to put on a race... keep it on your radar for 2016......... ITS WORTH THE DRIVE !!!!!!!!