IMPBA US-1 discussion

[Don Ferrette]

In order to keep the No Internats thread "on topic" I created this thread for you guys to "discuss" US-1, please do so here.

 

[Chris Wood]

well don i guess i will start this one off. lol

My personal belief on this is we try to keep the format as close to the same as we can.. now looking forward most if not all types of motorsports go thru change. via format time venue ect.

If we could keep the race.. make it shorter.. i think that is the key.. Greg hahn told me that top gun ( one if not he biggest ) airplane events is 3 or 4 days long.

i think that in itself would help bring ALOT more people.. i know when i want to 07 nats my last one so far. all said in done it cost me over 2000,00 for the 10 days.. aka gas food hotel ect. that is ALOT of coin for a race.

has anyone thought about trying something a little different.

example ( trying to stay with current format or close to )

3 rounds of heat racing ( instead of 5 )

then top 8 boats from 3 rounds got to a A feature

then top 3 go to time trials

you make it even harder than before.. less rounds makes it more critical to do well EVERY round. you must make it to the show and then get past the A for the time trials. that would elemate 1 round of racing per class.

One other thing i think needs to happen as mark bullard hit on. I personally feel the IMPBA needs to host the event.. not a club

fact is there are getting fewer and fewer clubs and even less that want to do it. let alone a nice suitable site to do it. plus it take the heat off of clubs to take charge and run it. I think that alone would help the event a ton.

one other thing and i will get some heat on this but oh well.. time of year. why do we have the biggest or supposed to be biggest race of the year in the middle of the year.. I know some will say that they can take there kids.. and i get that i now have one of my own.. but if you look at the particants over the years. 95% or more are adults.. i know we want more kids involved but this is the nationals.. most forms of sports are held toward the end of there seasons.. personally i feel that would help.. people might have more flexablity for time off of work since everyone wants vacation in the summer.

I am not trying to start a war.. I have been at this for over 20yrs. and i don't want to see this hobby sport whatever you want to call it get any smaller.. just throwing out ideas to try to build some excitement that once was for this event.

chris wood

 

[piper_chuck]

It seems this discussion comes up every year, the same points are made, nothing changes, it becomes harder to find a club, and attendance at the internats becomes lower and lower. Meanwhile, new races with strong attendance spring up all over the place.

For personal reasons I won't get to race much this year, so the Internats wasn't even on the table. Last year was actually my best shot at attending since I was in complete control of my schedule. I thought through it and even talked to a few others about it. In the end I chose not to attend for one simple reason, it takes too much vacation time. When faced with a choice of where to allocate my vacation time, family gets priority over playing with my toy boats. I suspect I'm not alone in having such a vacation balancing dilemma. Instead of going to the Internats I chose to go to a weekend race, even though I only had one boat that I could enter. If I had been able to do the Internats with 3-4 days of vacation, instead of 6, I would have gone...

Perhaps it is time for a serious look at changing the format so people can attend the Internats without investing over a week's worth of vacation. In one of the prior year's discussions I commented on how many more boats/heats were accommodated at the NAMBA nats. Attendance is still pretty good at many of the pure heat racing events across the country. Since the time trials add several days to the schedule, maybe the title should be decided by heat racing. Run 4 rounds to determine the top 8. These boats then race a few heats to determine who is the best of the best.

 

[bzubee]

Chris, it is hard enough just getting the board members to send in articles for the Roostertail and attend the phone conferences much less having them host an Internats. Plus a large bulk of the work still falls on the site club for providing all of the support for the event. ie. retreive boat, buoys, clock, pa system, and man power to set up and take down equipment each day, ect. The IMPBA board is not set up for hosting races and why should they if the members do not care enough about the event to step up and host the event. A good example of what the members can do was done last year with District Four stepping up and hosting the event at the Evansville site. They did a great job. I do agree with your idea of maybe shortening the event. Not really sur ehow much cutting 2 rounds out would shorten it but that is one thing to look at. I know Steve Sutton did some math on just how long the event should really take but so far I have never seen that proven in reality. It did look good on paper a good way to compare is to look at Spring Nats and some other huge races and see how many heats they actually get done in 3 or 4 days. I know the Gas Nats has gone from 3 days to 4 days so they could get at least 4 four rounds of racing accomplished. This will be interesting to see if we can get something worked out for the future to try. As far as location look at the size of the NAMBA Nationals and that is up in Washington State just as for on the out skirts as New York.

 

[ddalme]

Chris, I agree with a lot that you stated. I've been in this sport for many years and attended my first Internats last year. I'm retired now and can take the time to play, before couldn't get them into my schedule are just didn't have the funds to spend before. As a club president many years ago, we looked into hosting an internats, but after seeing what it takes(people/money/time), decided not to put in a bid. I'd like to see the US1 go to a different formate, but still make it hard to win. Maybe 3 rds heat racing. Top 5 to 8 finishers go to 2 rds of heat racing. Then top 3 go to speed trials. This would save some time only if you had a lot of competitors. Also,you could do a NAMBA style format that would run desinated classes on the same day. ie: A, B C engine classes (Mono & Hydro)on Monday-D,E,F (mono & Hydro)classes on Tues, etc. etc. Therefore, saving time for the competitors. Just a thought. Haven't put the pensil to all of this yet.

 

[Bob Nauss]

I think the Internats in its current format needs some serious rethinking on multiple points.

Length of time:

A week long race if just to long for not only the racers, but the club hosting it. Depending on drive times some people are looking at having to take a week to a week and a half off work. For a lot of people that is half of there vacation each year. Add to that the cost of lodging for that many nights and we are talking some serious $$.

The race format:

The whole US-1 race format almost begs people not to attend. We are asking the participants to make plans to run 6 days, but only guaranteeing them 3 days of running. If they aren't in the top finishers in the heat racing they are done. So there options are to run a specialty class to fill the time, sit around as a spectator to fill the time, or leave. Keep in mind the first 2 options also means they are paying for lodging and burning up vacation time to be at a race they are done racing at.

To focused on one class of boats:

20, 30, 40 years ago nitro was pretty much all there was. The IMPBA lived and breathed nitro, so the Internats having a nitro focus made sense. That is not the case anymore. In District 2 at any given race half or more of the boats running are GAS, and Electrics are growing in popularity. Nitro on the other hand is becoming less popular to the point that classes that use to draw 12+ boats now can not meet the 3 boat minimum.

Do that math:

So for those people wondering why the Internats is having trouble just add it up. It is a race format that take a way to long, so it can cater to a very specific group of people, running a specific class of boats that are decreasing in numbers in most areas. To be honest winning US-1 is not what it use to be. Back in the day, you had to beat out 50+ people to win it. In some classes now you can win it as long as the class makes the 5 boat minimum.

If you want to hold a grand regatta that represents the organization then format it to the current makeup of the membership. Not the membership we had 30 years ago.

It's always nice to dream about having someone else do the work:

The idea of THE IMPBA hosting the race is almost humorous. The IMPBA is not a professional organization. The Executive Board for the most part it is a few people who donate there time to keep things running. As D2 Director I don't get any money or any perks. The real strength of the IMPBA has always been the clubs. They hold the races and they are where people gather together to play.

Heck, One thing we do right is having the clubs host the national events. The reason is very simple. LOGISTICS

Planning a race is a bear. Imagine trying to do it when the people planning and running it don't even live near the event. Making arrangement for a location 2 or 3 states away takes things to a whole new level. Planning and executing setup and tear down would be nightmare.

-Bob

 

[Mark Bullard]

There is no way to make the Internats shorter. I have been connected with 9 Internats in the pass 25 years. It is also no harder than putting on a weekend race just longer. There are many racers that would love to go back to a Internats but never will until things change. The IMPBA is to promote radio control racing and other types model boating. It is to provide insurance and help connect with all boaters of the world and to also provide a International Regatta for all the members to race for

US 1. To try and change the format would lose the true meaning of US 1. And for those of us that have them would be a slap in the face to change it.

 

[Bob Nauss]

Mark,

I am a bit confused here. It may just be a wording thing. Most of your post says thing can't change. but the middle sentence says "There are many racers that would love to go back to a Internats but never will until things change."

-Bob

 

[BDM Racing]

I may be wrong, but hasnt the US-1 format already been changed?

Is it not the top 5 from (5 rounds of heat racing) from each US-1 reconized class, that can go to the next event of S.A.W. and oval times to compleate competition for a US-1 title?

From my memory of internats participtation, that there cuts 1 day to a day and half off of time there.

And if a participant is one of the top 5 finishers, dont they have a choice to continue, or take their winning place and leave if needed.

Maybe this could be modified to a smaller number of qualifiers, for US-1, Would this save time? And keep up the highest qaulity level of a US-1 title?

I have not ever won a US-1,, gotten several close, but NO Cigar But i will continue to try for it.

I wish it was offered in the Gas division of racing, and i hope it gets there someday.

As far as the whole Internats ,those saying it takes to long, Then why is this?

Alot of races big one, Spring Nats, Winter Nats, take the Hobart race coming this Sept. why is there people planning on arriving on the race site sometimes 2 and 3 days before the event, ? taking as many as 3 weekdays off before a race?, But oh the Internats takes to long is what i hear.

Even at some local races, people ask if they are allowed on site 1 or 2 days before the event.

I have a hard time understanding ,when i am told , the internats take too long from people and they are the very ones who are showing up at different races around the country days before the event.

US-1 is a tough goal to accomplish, but a high goal to set, Look what Ernie LaFluer did in the past.

Keep the standards HIGH, but we need to find a solution soon.

Bob Morrow

 

[Chris Wood]

bob,

it is a little different when you can get 2-3 days off and RACE on the weekend vs takeing 10days off and the race STARTS on the weekend.. know what i mean?

From what i have read so far the general consinsus is we need to do something.. what that maybe i am not sure.. but the fact remains if we want a premier event.. we may have to look at doing something to draw people and if continued have clubs want to host it. weither it be format, time at the event. or try to find a centrally located site. i personally think that would be a good idea.. ya not everyone will make it.. but i think it will make it easier for the simple fact that every year at this location at this time you know where it will be. but that is just my own opinon on that.

somewhere someone made a good point that we havn't changed anything in along time.. maybe it i time to expand the options.

hobart is a prime example. 3 day show and there is racers comming i havn't seen in 10yrs plus.

something to be said for that.

chris

 

[Don Ferrette]

bob,
it is a little different when you can get 2-3 days off and RACE on the weekend vs taking 10days off and the race STARTS on the weekend.. know what i mean?

From what i have read so far the general consensus is we need to do something.. what that maybe i am not sure.. but the fact remains if we want a premier event.. we may have to look at doing something to draw people and if continued have clubs want to host it.

hobart is a prime example. 3 day show and there is racers coming i haven't seen in 10yrs plus.

something to be said for that.

chris

Chris is spot on here. I really do miss going to the Internats and each year I try to work the logistics but to no avail. Unless the event is in your district with the time needed for the event, packing and traveling to and from plus a day to "recharge" one's self before going back to work it's 10 to 12 days of vacation time burnt to make one event. I'll use less time to attend the SpringNats, FallNats and Hobart combined and that includes not going back to work until Tuesday. With times getting alot tougher than they used to be one of the "perks" you see going away is PTO (paid time off0. I'm fortunate enough to work for a company that is extremely generous in that regard (better than most) but I still have to work in family obligations and local events too. The free time is just not there like it used to be.................

 

[BDM Racing]

Chris,

I understand somewhat on a 2-3 days off for weekend race, sorta <_< and arriving days before event starts.

Im total agreement,something needs to be done to keep US-1 & Internats a premeire event and standards high for US-1 competition.

Hobart , appears a prime example of *what could be done* I too am not sure of the answer. Depending on the this Internats , its back on,somewhere else, or not on at all. I let Mr. Ferguson know i may not be able to go to Hobart as a spectator he may need to secure another way there as i offered if i go, he can ride up with me.

I still wonder, hasnt the fromat been shortened as referenced earlier?

Bob

 

[Don Ferrette]

I still wonder, hasnt the format been shortened as referenced earlier?

Yes to a point with the top five format but remember we've also added US-1 classes (twin hydro, 1/8 scale and sport 40).

 

[Mark Bullard]

Mark,
I am a bit confused here. It may just be a wording thing. Most of your post says thing can't change. but the middle sentence says "There are many racers that would love to go back to a Internats but never will until things change."

-Bob

I am not trying to confuse you on this. The number of entries have went down by 200 to 300 boats since the 2006 Internats. I am not going to spell it out. I said this would happen back then and it shows that I was right on the money. There are people on here that know what happened and chose a bad road to follow because of 5% of the membership. It is very hard to get members to vote on issues. And important issues we should not allow 5% of the membership change the whole organization.

Also these members that are not going to the Internats are the ones that are supporting the big weekend races. This is why there is such a boat count at these races.

 

[BDM Racing]

ok, thanks Don

 

[bzubee]

There are actually 3 format options for a club to choose from the traditional format where everyone runs the timed events first and then go into the heat racing (Mark and Doc really liked this format) then the newer format with heat racing taking place first (roughly about 4 days) and the top five from each US-1 class does the timed events (which takes about 2 days total). Specialty classes are run after all of the US-1 classes have finished in the 2 formats mentioned above, (this usually takes about 2 days or maybe 1 1/2 days). The third format was run one time down in Louisiana with just heat racing and Don just recently refined the format into a "Nationals Format" no club as of this time has opted to use this refined format, so a timeframe for it is still just theoretical. As far as I know the only Internats that has not had a full 5 rounds of heat racing was the Ft Wayne Nats, they had some rain delays and just did not have the time. That is one difference between the many 3 and four day LARGE races we have now, they are only getting in 3 to 4 rounds of racing in for the whole race and the oldtime boaters are still looking at the standard of 5 rounds of racing and anything less is just okay. Cutting the 3 of rounds as Chris suggested is probably the most time saving of the options.

 

[Bob Nauss]

I am not trying to confuse you on this. The number of entries have went down by 200 to 300 boats since the 2006 Internats. I am not going to spell it out. I said this would happen back then and it shows that I was right on the money. There are people on here that know what happened and chose a bad road to follow because of 5% of the membership. It is very hard to get members to vote on issues. And important issues we should not allow 5% of the membership change the whole organization.

Also these members that are not going to the Internats are the ones that are supporting the big weekend races. This is why there is such a boat count at these races.

Unless your willing to enlighten us with short memories I can't help ya there.

The current format clearly appears to have issues. Keeping a event that is loosing participation the way it has been for not other reason than that is the way it always has been is a wonderful way to continue a downward trend.

The so called Premiere Race has already been eclipsed by the Gas Nats and several club races in participation and enthusiasm. Yea the Internats can stay the at the current format. People will just need to get use to smaller and smaller attendance and the race itself mattering less and less.

Maybe it's time to try the 3rd format Bill mentioned

And if only 5% vote then at least the issues are being decided by the people who care enough to chose to participate.

 

[Tom Kelly]

Guys

What if the Internats was broke up into a series of weekend races, say, Friday thru Sunday. Pick four or five classes to run together, and run the five rounds, SAW, ect. in one weekend. Then the next weekend, run four or five different classes. Most guys (gals) running in Scale have a Sport 40 too. Maybe add the tunnel classes to their weekend to fill out the five classes. Then the next group of five classes could run the next weekend, even at a different site, different club, or different week. This would ease the burden on the host club buy spreading it out to possibly more than one club or site. What do you think?

 

[Chris Wood]

tom i am kinda with ya.

i have wondered about say a mono nats. hydro nats. you have the tunny champs ect.

i realize the attendence will be way different but you could run 5rounds and time trials for the classes and get it all in in 3days or so.. i think?

maybe that is an option.

when my club did the 2000 nats we did the old format as bill spoke of.. time trials first then raceing. that format makes ALOT more money for the club because EVERYONE wants to run time trials and at 30 or 40 bucks a boat.. it makes some nice money for the club.

a little more time consuming but duable.

plus that format gives everyone a shot at time trials that might not otherwise get to try it out.

chris

 

[Bob Nauss]

And the people who are not interested in that part can skip it and show up to the heat racing latter in the week.

Hmmmmm..............