IMPBA Noise Safety Issue

[Guest_Kurt Tedford]

There is no question that we have a noise issue. We must deal with this effectively to insure the continued viability and safety of our sport. Yes, I did say safety. I did some searching on the internet on noise pollution and it didn't take long to find facts that loud noise is dangerous to humans and not just your hearing. I want to see a grass roots effort from all r/c boaters of IMPBA to force the board into immediate action. It can be done, but it will take some cooperation from all members. Please read the following proposal.

http://rcboat.com/noise_policy.pdf

This proposal was written by Marty Davis after much research and development. His contributions to this sport, speak for themselves.

If you agree that we need a 92db rule at 50 feet, then please email me at [email protected]. If you disagree, then please email me with your objections, please back them up with facts. They will be included, if substantiated, in the final report that will go to all district directors, all national directors, the president, the vice president and the secretary.

I will follow this through to the end and report back as to the progress.

I believe this is important to all r/c boaters, please take this subject seriously and we can make a difference.

Kurt Tedford

PS. I would like to hear from AB and Jim Irwin on this subject

 

[Guest_Joe W]

Kurt Are you a Current IMPBA Member? How did Your Dist Director vote on this? Not everyone in IMPBA is for Mufflers...

 

[Guest]

Yes, I am a current IMPBA member, and there has been no vote on this. They passed a muffler rule full of holes for last year. If you are not in favor of limiting the noise, I would like to hear why.

 

[TomMoorehouse]

I used to be in the we don't need any stinking quiet pipes camp..... loud is COOL! But one time I tried an rc car pipe on my boat to "see what it would do" and thought to myself.... ya know it sure was nice to have my boat so quiet. From then on I decided I would put significant effort in to making my boats quiet.... I have no regrets.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Joe 'ol buddy please don't start that again. This is happening in the IMPBA wether any of us like it or not. I'll be straight up & tell everyone that nothing sounded sweeter to me than my twin in full song on the water, BUT I'm also a realist & after watching the IMPBA lose almost 2 dozen running sites in less than 4 years PURELY on complaints of noise it's time we faced up to the issue. We all know you can't please everyone all the time but there comes a time for some out there to put aside selfish interests & look at the picture in it's full form. The problem currently at hand is the IMPBA muffler rule as written is a joke. Granted, the original "intent" was to get people moving in the right direction but now it's time to set a dB limit & remove the grey areas that all too many are currently exploiting. Who cares how you meet it, wether you do the internal stinger extensions that Terry Keeley has been working with ( & I hear he's having alot of success) or a muffler or whatever, just meet the limit, who cares how you get there, just do it. Noise control is inevitable with the ever increasing urban/suburban sprawl so you might as well get used to it. Quiet is NOT slow, I just went over 108 at last SAW trials with a boat that was consistently under 92 dB so it's not hard to do at all. Besides, the pond you save one day just might be you own!

 

[Guest]

Thanks, Don for your input.

 

[Guest]

Kurt, That is a Good Point There was NO VOTE.... The Rule was Forced....IMPBA is about legal organized racing. Not the Local Pond @ home. We always hear about the Local Ponds being Lost. Most of those boaters Do Not know who Owns the land,Never got permission to run there, Have no insurance & Most are NOT Members of Any Organization. YOU CANNOT be TOO Upset when you are ask to leave. Plus Just as you install all your mufflers to run the local pond on LOCAL Scene on Sat Morn With your Membership Card in Hand. Does NOT keep the Local SPEED DEMON BOATER (NON MEMBER) From Blasting his 90 MONO With the Open Nitro Pipe on Sunday & Getting EVERYONE Kicked off the Pond...... YOU WILL NEVER CONTROL THE LOCAL POND ISSUE. Plus NO One is getting a Pond back because NOW you have a Muffler.... My dist 5 voted NO for Mufflers. We are 200 member strong in IMPBA Organization. I have several boats, Several Pipes, And have raced under these Current rules of the IMPBA in 2003. I have seen every type of crap on a pipe you can think of. Personally I like the Noise. I wish they were louder..... AS For Speed. If your Boat goes Faster with a Muffler... Hell Race IT....... But Dont Con`t to FORCE the Issue on everybody. AS for DON.... Well he likes to talk about a lot of Issues. I have seen this from the BOT... Mr. T Grannis a late Pres of the IMBA said it Best........... If the Noise issue is a problem in your Area Handle it. @ THE SAME TIME HE DID NOT PASS THE VOTE TO FORCE IT DOWN EVERYONES THROAT....... NOW YOU ASK FOR MY OPINION there it is......... JOE W. IMPBA 17999

 

[Kurt Tedford]

Thanks Joe for your input, all are welcome. I am not treating this as a rule, I am treating this as a safety issue.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Joe I was being a nice guy about this but don't make people think all your 200 members voted against mufflers, that's simply not true & a matter of documented record with the IMPBA ballots. This also goes waaay beyond the local ponds as you imply. The Winternats that were held in Orlando had the police show up & shut it down from noise complaints. That incredibly nice race site the IMPBA enjoyed for MANY years is now history. Same with the Indy club losing their pond, one of the oldest known running sites around. Too much noise, repeated warnings, now it's gone. This scenario is playing out all over the IMPBA. You can yell & scream about this all you want, but reality is this WILL happen. :blink: :blink: :blink:

 

[Zimmerman]

Ted,

I am all in favor of quiet. I understand where you are coming from on the safety issues (health wise). 92db @ 50 ft. ???? How are you going to enforce that? Many EXTREMELY technically minded (and prominent) IMPBA members have been all over this problem for more than 20 years and, to my knowledge, haven't been able to come up with a reasonable and consistant way to measure the afore mentioned criteria from one race to the next. Rich

 

[Zimmerman]

Kurt,

Sorry about the Ted thning. Had a senior moment. Rich

 

[Slideblues]

Hey Guy's

I have worked in broadcast and live venue sound systems for quite some time and am aware of the hearing loss issues above 102 db, But other than hearing loss how is it a safety issue?

Gene

 

[Guest]

Don, It was left up to the Dist directors to vote according to the Ballots. It was a Dist to Dist vote. It was NOT a Membership vote. The Majority of the (Active) Dist 5 Members Did not want the Change. If there are some Dist 5 members on here they got the chance to vote too. Dist 5 Voted NO for MUFFLERS(FACT). Everyone in IMPBA pays membership $ All have a right to vote on an issue. AS for the SAFETY ISSUE..... There are several things at the race site that are Safety Issues.. Greater than Noise.. We have all seen them..... No One is yelling & screaming. I`am currently Racing & Having as good time....The Yelling Screaming is Not @ this site. Tom Has a Nice Site here, Good Boaters - Asking Good Questions. Enjoy the site. P.S. Lets not Beat this SUBJECT to DEATH More. You have had Your Say & I have had Mine... I understand how you feel. But I did have a Different Opinion As you do also. ENJOY....... Hope to see you at the 04 IMPBA NATS. Joe W

 

[Don Ferrette]

Joe- I'm good with "we agree to disagree'. As I've said there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that sounder sweeter to me than one of my twins shreddin' the lake at full song with open pipes but I choose to look at the bigger picture. I too look forward to the '04 Nats ,we should have a good time, I think Joe Grace & co. will see to that.

Gene- A safety issue beyond noise? Simple. Picture this- a guy wearing his hearing protectors 'cause it's so loud in the pits (we've all seen that). He doesn't hear his pit man telling him to watch out for the boat coming off the starting stand behind him & he backs into that meat grinding prop spinning at 15-20K. Don't think it can happen? Well I've seen some unbeleiveable near misses that it amazes me someone hasn't lost a kidney or such. There's a guy out this way who saved a shirt he was wearing that has the hole in the side from exactly this scenario occuring, he's still amazed he didn't wind up with a hole in him. Since we've quieted things down a bit we've not had such an incident or near miss since. Not a sermon, just some thought provoking input.

Rich- IMPBA has not been all over this for 20 years, we've been dragging our heels. This first came to light seriously at the '98 IMPBA board meeting at Toledo. I know, I was there ( and what the late Tom Grannis actually said at this board meeting was until the IMPBA can look into this further if it's a local issue handle it. Tom was a good friend whom I miss ). The APBA & NAMBA have had set working guidelines in place for years. I forwarded my proposal to Ted, if anyone would like to see it I can either e-mail it to you or if enough want, I'll post it here. Clear cut, straight forward & easy to follow.

 

[Slideblues]

Hey Don,

Ok got cha, That was a very good example you used there.......

 

[Guest_Joe W]

Don post your E mail address. I have something I wanted to talk to you about. Not the Current Issue....

 

[Zimmerman]

Did I say "IMPBA"??? :unsure: I think it went "IMPBA members"!!! <_<

 

[Ron Olson]

This issue has been beat on over at the "Other" site. Yes, I'm all for noise reduction. Clubs can opt to have a 92 dB noise limit at their races if they choose to. Some of the sites that I race at are out in the country where it is no problem like the Saginaw site. Other sites may be near residential areas which would make the neighbors much happier. If I wasn't a boater, I don't think that I would be too happy listening to a bunch of loud boats on a Sunday morning when they chose to live near an otherwise quiet Park.

At the IMPBA Internats this past year, working in the pits doing varous duties, there were racers trying to get by the muffler rule by putting something on the stingers and calling it a "muffler". One Big Block twin 'rigger was really loud, close to if not over 102 dB. I'd wish that I did have my dB meter handy at the time to see what it read at.

So what is the big deal? If this rule had been made years ago, we wouldn't have to deal with it now. My boats have been faster with the Irwin quiet pipes and Andy set the current record with a quiet pipe.

 

[Zimmerman]

Might be dating myself a bit, but when I got into this hobby everyone was running megaphone pipes and the hot engines were the Super Tiger X-40 and the Taipan 21. Many guys, including myself, went down kicking and screaming because, due to noise problems, we had to go from 1/4 to 1/2 wave pipes. Few of us understood how to make the new pipes work, but we learnd pretty quickly. We are pretty much in the same situation now. I have made the transition. I also lament the fact that I now own about $1000 worth of useless pipes. Sigh... Bite the bullet guys! QUIET IS COMING! Just as an aside. My opinion of the new IMPBA rule doesn't matter, but I think this first venture "outside the box" was attempted in such a way as to avoid favoritism towards the very few manufacturers who already have "decent" quiet pipes available. Incidentally, the old muffler rules that were replaced last year were written by the technical committe I chaired in 1980 and I believe installed in the Spring of 1982. They lasted a whopping 20 years! How's that for dragging your heals?

 

[Don Ferrette]

Don post your E mail address. I have something I wanted to talk to you about. Not the Current Issue....

ok- [email protected]