IMPBA legal outboards

[Wayne Johnstone]

What about using a gas lower?

 

[julianconde]

What about using a gas lower?

It's too big and heavy. Need something alittle smaller and lighter

 

[bob miller]

juliancone , the lawless lower 45 seems to be a well made strong lower outboard unit that is still a available

 

[Robert Pickard]

I dont know how this can be hard outboard is a engine on the outside of the hull not fastened down on the inside with a rudder sticking out, dont see the problem here, if it is inside and fastened then it be a rigger not a outboard

 

[rumrunner]

Wow seeing this is alittle crazy. I understand that people want a tunnel with the engine mounted vertical on the back of the boat. We have a lack of outboard lower manufactured in the hobbie. Ernie made a adapter to use different engines mounted vertical for a 67/80 and 45 RS type engines mounted on a K&B 7.5 lower. Can't use a 90 or 1.00 or 1.01 cube engines because the lowers can't support the power being put on the shaft.

Here's what I have. Now if anyone want to collectively come in with me I have the design for a 1cube plus engines adapter the problem is whose going to build lowers to support the power ??? The lowers are the problem that's why people are thinking outside the box to keep the classes alive.

Julian

Yah the lower is the problem then you break a flex it eats a $175 lawless . 1/4 flex works good.

 

[julianconde]

juliancone , the lawless lower 45 seems to be a well made strong lower outboard unit that is still a available

Bob. I'm talking about the big block nitro on outboards. I know lawless makes there unit. But you can't use a lawless lower with a 90/1.00/1.01 engines as they require 1/4 shaft. We are currently pushing the limits with 7.5 lowers with the E/F 60/80 tunnel setup some of us currently use as I posted pictures of my boat. Also you can't use the lawless lower unit with the Ernie conversion I have because the bell housing does not fit in. Lawless gas drives break shafts and not dependable as I ran one and broke more shafts than I ran.

 

[julianconde]

Wow seeing this is alittle crazy. I understand that people want a tunnel with the engine mounted vertical on the back of the boat. We have a lack of outboard lower manufactured in the hobbie. Ernie made a adapter to use different engines mounted vertical for a 67/80 and 45 RS type engines mounted on a K&B 7.5 lower. Can't use a 90 or 1.00 or 1.01 cube engines because the lowers can't support the power being put on the shaft.

Here's what I have. Now if anyone want to collectively come in with me I have the design for a 1cube plus engines adapter the problem is whose going to build lowers to support the power ??? The lowers are the problem that's why people are thinking outside the box to keep the classes alive.

Julian

Yah the lower is the problem then you break a flex it eats a $175 lawless . 1/4 flex works good.

I have to agree there's a shortage of lower units that can be used to accommodate big block power. Then when people think outside the box to make up for the lack of products they get critized maybe someone should design a lower unit that can support big block power and like that people don't come up with these great ideas and get bashed.
These so called inboard type setups in question have been ran for many years and yet no one has protested the boats in question at a race ??? What's does that say to you ??

Julian

 

[rumrunner]

I dont know how this can be hard outboard is a engine on the outside of the hull not fastened down on the inside with a rudder sticking out, dont see the problem here, if it is inside and fastened then it be a rigger not a outboard

Just because I tried to cover most of the motor with the cowl to make it look better . I could cut the cowl off in front of the motor , guess you have no boats with in set transom no difference. I have a warhead that the transom is in 4.5 inches that More than my turntable boat, insane gas boat mount inside the boat . Guess you only run straight back boats.

 

[MarkScott]

Per APBA for OPC outboards rules: 5: Engines must be bolted to the Transoms.

There is nothing in IMPBA stating this simple fact of what an OUTBOARD motor is.

Why can't we follow these simple rules that the big boys use?

If I had been at a race when these "turntables" first came out, I would have filed a complaint and it would have failed. Yes, they do follow the current IMPBA rules. That is why IMPBA rules need to change. As of now, I've yet had a chance to run against one.

When gas outboards started to gain support, there were a few people that came out with their own designed lowers. The one from Auz (sorry it's been to long to remember the mfgr) that looked like the turntable. IE: flex shaft is open, etc. But it was still mounted to the transom. Why can't those that are making the "turntable" to follow suit? You should be able to make a lower that works for your powerhouse motor and still mount on a transom.

Yes, there are boats that have inset transoms, but the motor still mounts to a vertical transom..

 

[Darin Jordan]

I still fail to see why the OPC "Outboard" definition needs to be any more complicated that this:

NAMBA 28.E.4.c.:

c. Motor Specifications

i) An “outboard” is defined as a complete motor and propulsion unit that
can be attached to and removed from the outside of the hull as one
unit.

ii) The outboard will be the single means of controlling the direction of
the boat.

 

[rumrunner]

So if I put a transom in front of my turntable make my bottom of my turntable plate have a 90 that would make it legal in namba to , people will always HATE ,

 

[Kris Flynn]

So if I put a transom in front of my turntable make my bottom of my turntable plate have a 90 that would make it legal in namba to , people will always HATE ,

But only because it is you man haha

NOW: Define transom

Google says:

transom
ˈtrans(ə)m/
noun
noun: transom; plural noun: transoms
the flat surface forming the stern of a boat.

• 
  a horizontal beam reinforcing the stern of a boat.
  
  

NOW, I don't know about you, but I read this as only leaving boats like the Hot Shot 24 legal for anyone to run as the transom is at the stern of the boat

Innovation is the key here. I have seen far worse examples of non outboard looking boats...at least the motor does pivot as an assembly.

Are people objections to this style of outboard that Shane has shown us mainly due to looks? Integrity of the class? being sour grapes because it beats them? Just curious.

Cheers

Kris

 

[Darin Jordan]

I also don't see why the transom would need to be defined at "vertical"... in relation to WHAT would be my first question, and WHY is this necessary in the first place??

The more words you put on the page, the 1) Harder it is to tech, and 2) More GRAY area you define. Both of these complicate racing, unnecessarily.

 

[Kris Flynn]

Hi Kris ,

have a look at the Vintage boaters , http://www.152vo.de/index.php/modelle/modellaussenborder/marktuebersicht .

Have a crazy idea ,maybe i will show the running sushi ob .

Happy Amps Christian

That is a fantastic overview of the outboards readily available (past and present) thanks for sharing

 

[MarkScott]

Kris,

Answers to the "objections" questions.

#1 - yes - only someone that has been in the hobby will most likely have the knowledge and "want" to come up with a different setup. A person new to the hobby will inquire, where can I get one? NOPE, unless you have plenty of $$. This could discourage people from joining in on our fun.

#2 - yes - It does not look like anything a outboard has been throughout history.

#3 - never ran against one. Couldn't care less since it is within rules that were written when the outboards first came out.

Innovation would be if this style was allowed in the professional racing organizations. It would not fit APBA's rule to hang off the transom. Rules are necessary. Look at the complex rules stated for Scale. Now look at IMPBA's Outboard rules. Engine and Hull specs have 4 lines that defines what a Outboard is? Really.. Tommy Lee gave us the reason why it's so short.

Darin,

Throughout history, an outboard has always been mounted on a vertical (or near vertical) transom. NAMBA's rules are missing that single fact. What defines "outside of hull"?

Shane,

I don't "hate" what John and you (and others?) have come up with. I "dislike" the rules that allow this to occur.

I grew up watching (wish it was more like actually driving) OPC Tunnel racing on TV. Watched the big hydros also, but my love is for OPC Tunnel racing. I have had other boats, but those are gone. Only boats I have set to run are tunnels. I've stated this before, I have the same "dislike" for the so called gas tunnels that use an inboard and a fake outdrive. It just doesn't work for me. If it works for you, great. To me, it may discourage people from joining our racing. It may bring people in, think not alot.. Reminds me of when RTR came along. People bought them up rapidly, wanted to race but only to find out their boats didn't match a class with the engine/hull sizes. Yea, they could run against the bigger boats, but they are outmatched. Bottom line, I'm a purest on what defines an outboard. Turnstyle just doesn't work for me.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Darin,

What defines "outside of hull"?

Ummmm.... are you seriously telling me that we have to write rules to "clearly define" what the OUTSIDE of the hull is?

Do we do the same to define the deck, the bow, the bottom, the front, the back?

I'm sorry, but if you don't know, and can't figure out what the common and universal definition of which is the inside vs. the outside, then a clearer definition of what an "outboard" is isn't going to get us anywhere.

 

[MarkScott]

Well, yea. That wording states I can mount the motor anywhere (the deck, the bow, the bottom, the front, the back) on the boat as long as it's "outside".. Certain it would be a hinder, but per the wording, it's legal. As I pointed out already, APBA OPC states : MOUNTED ON THE TRANSOM. There, four words defines how an outboard is to be mounted to a tunnel / hydro. Is it really that difficult to change the wording?

Guess this all due to part of my past work requirements. I was QMS for three departments. Needed to keep them all ISO certified. Never failed an audit, including those done by PWC.

 

[Robert Pickard]

This is going stupid

 

[HTV Boats]

I don't care if you cut a hole in the cockpit area, make a transom and bolt an outboard in a tractor drive position. WE NEED more boats and support for races, not controversy. This isn't like the turbine engine at Indy. Homebrew lowers are not dominating racing, just filling a void for larger displacement motors.

Mic

 

[Grimracer]

Mark Scott.. you could not have nailed that post any better...

Rules suck BUT.. are needed to better "CONTROL" what we do.. it ALSO helps NEW racers and builders jump in though better definition.

This one seem simple to update.. the TRANSOM..

Grim