IMPBA Boats per class

[Andy Greene]

Finished 2/3/3/2 went into the "shootout" <_< #2 qualifier and hit a turtle coming to the clock with 8 secs to go- never got a start and finished 6th.

ANY other race and it was 2nd Oh well.....................

I felt that pain. First place in P Limited and Gas OB Tunnel going into shoot out final round. 12" chop took out my P Limited. A guy spun out half a turn in front of me on the last lap of my Gas Tunnel with me way out front, and when I tried to go around him he turned 90 degrees to the course and forced me all the way out almost into the bank, before he turned. Any other race, would have been two firsts..........

If we were going to run SHOOTOUT Races All you have to do is split the class. Run 2 heats and a final & DONE............ You mentioned there were 16 F monos. there was no point in racing them for a week to come to a final shootout..... Either Race them 4 heats to award the high point winner... Or shorten the event and Cram them all in a couple of heats and have a shootout.... I`am not a fan of Shootout races if the clubs cannot keep up with the points during the event or at the end of the event. it puts a lot on a club to score a entire race event in Shootout format. The only postive it has added is You dont have to show up days early to get ready. All you have to do is keep tuning your boat to the Final on Sunday

Can it be TRUE- WE AGREE

Kidding Joe-

But a very well made point- It REALLY sucked to put in that much effort and be a top 2 boat ANYWHERE else, and walk away with nothing to show. Oh well, was on the flier and thats racing. I dont get the chance to travel as much as I would like and to get that chance against pretty much everyone in X- but Crowther and Tommy meant something too me.

Ron I remember both deals- sucked for ya after that travel and all that work..........

 

[El Zorro]

Six boat limit if you really want to race. I would rather not go to a race because I could not get in than show up and spend all the time and money to not be able to race because of all the dead wood on the pond. Been there done that in the 1980s when the spring nats sometimes ran 11 boat heats. Not racing at all. I remember Pop Tyndall being the only boat left in a race there and 10 dead boats. When he finished everyone clapped and yelled because he was able to finish without hitting any of the dead boats. It's about racing, not dodging dead wood. SIX boat limit.

I remember hearing about that one. I believe it was when they ran at the Stone Mountain site and there was a big rock in the lake ( that's another story ). Pop was running an Aeromarine cat in 60 hydro and all of the other boats were dead in the water and his throttle got stuck WIDE OPEN. He managed to finish the heat and I believe he even won the class.

I have to agree with John on this one. It's all about the racing..............not dodging dead boats. The races you remember are the ones where you are chasing someone or someone is chasing you for 6 laps. Sometimes the pass is made and sometimes it isn't. It's always nice to win but it means more to RACE for it. SIX boat limit.

**** Tyndall

 

[HTV Boats]

I think across the board 6 boat limit would improve heat racing in all classes. Make for less congestion in the 10 seconds before the start, at the line, and obviously the first turn. Easier to officiate and probably less arguments on the stand. At some large races it will present a time problem though. 35-40 heats per round could become 50-55. I don't like 3 heat races with the expense of travel and overnight stays. That said I would not have a problem cutting the class size in half for the 4th round. Many times I see people that are out of the hunt scratching the last heat anyway. How many times have you run a 6-7 boat heat and the last heat in the class has 3 boats. Just taking attendance at the last round could consolidate some heats. If your in 14th place in a 26 boat class you are just fun running the last heat while some are really in it points wise. It also puts the better racers (that event) grouped together and a lesser chance of a cake walk heat. When I have no chance of placing after 3 heats I rather oil it and pack it and not be a factor in an outcome I have no part in.

For large events limiting entries to say 4-5 boats per contestant could save a few heats. Pressing 70 plus heats a day is a rushed event for everyone especially the club running the race. Quantity or quality?

Mic

 

[John Knight]

I also believe that 6 boat heats will greatly improve the quality of the racing. Will reduce the carnage to dodge, clean up some of the hysteronics of 6+ boats diving in lane 1, buoy 1 in lap 1, and reduce the number of boats to be picked up. I think that most people will agree on those points.

However, the downside is that the number of boats that can enter some races will be reduced. The race is set up with certain number of heats that can run over the duration of the race. The number of boats then has to fit within that limit with the number of classes being offered to ensure that the race can be completed in the allotted time limit. As far as the Charleston Model Boat club is concerned, I can tell you that the IMPBA Gas Nats in June was set up for 6 boats heats from the very start. The class limits and the entry numbers followed suit. The Tunnel Champs (WTC) race in May was not first set up that way but I have adjusted the heat numbers to multiples of 6, so we can have 6 boat heats. Open slots have been cut accordingly. The 5th round may not be run due to time and that is noted on the race information at signup - 5 rounds time permitting. The race format has been set from the outset. Not right to make a major change midstream to set up an reduced heat that will eliminate racers that have paid their money. If a racer in 30th place wants to run his boat in the final heat has every right to do so and will be permitted accordingly. Maybe next year after this could be fleshed out in an intelligent and honorable manner for all concerned.

The REAL impact will be for the Fall Nationals. Over 60 to 80 slots (maybe more) will be cut to go to 6 boat heats for all 25 classes. There is an absolute max of 210 heats that we run for the race within the time allotted. I had over 360 boats registered for the 2012 Fall Nationals that sold out in 6 hours. Wait list was 88 boats deep at the start and ended at 7 for race time. No telling what could happen for this year. Each racer was limited last year to no more than 6 classes that can be entered and I see that dropping down to 5. I wish we could do the race with 18 classes but which ones gets cut? ALL classes had very good numbers for the Fall Nats in the past 4 years.

There is a price to pay at some major races. Many races held will not be impacted but the major ones, Spring Nats (already set up for 2013), Tunnel Champs, Hobart, Fall Nationals and the Winter Nationals will be turning people away in droves. Going to 3 or 4 day races is NOT the answer either. Most of them are already there. Just something to think about but go back to the first paragraph above for the positives. A balancing act for sure but I would think that over 50% of the races held will not have this problem to consider.

 

[SeanKewley]

I suppose having the above are good problems to have. Many district races don't have this issue... I hope more clubs/district races have to deal with these problems in the future. Maybe we can learn from you guys that have these "problems" ;-)

 

[dr gary turner]

John, I think the best options are: 1] consider splitting gas and nitro, ie different races 2] Reduce the number of boats per person, thus more people can participate. 3] Reduce the number of classes.

If fewer people attended the long term potential is that there could be a real drop off in attendence. IE the airplane club I was in had 6 runways a great site. We had so many members at the field that you could only fly one time on Sunday afternoon. So do to great wisdom we limited taking in any new members. WELL that club no longer exists. Folks started new clubs, some died, some got involved in other things. It took about 2-3 yrs to see the impact of the decision that was made.

What ever is decided the decision should not adversely limit the number of participants BUT decrease the number of boats.

Also folks should consider other race sites. Evansville and Huntsville have two of the best sites in the country and put on excellent racing. In fact some of my best heats I have had have been in Huntsville and Evansville . Big Lakes, Great facilities and for those with bad knees NO SIGNIFICANT STEPS. Also this year the IMPBA Nats could have an impact on attendence. So give serious thought to your decsison, as you appear to be doing . This is a CLASSIC , SUCCESS is often harder to manage than getting to a successful situation.

 

[Joe Warren]

I also believe that 6 boat heats will greatly improve the quality of the racing. Will reduce the carnage to dodge, clean up some of the hysteronics of 6+ boats diving in lane 1, buoy 1 in lap 1, and reduce the number of boats to be picked up. I think that most people will agree on those points.

However, the downside is that the number of boats that can enter some races will be reduced. The race is set up with certain number of heats that can run over the duration of the race. The number of boats then has to fit within that limit with the number of classes being offered to ensure that the race can be completed in the allotted time limit. As far as the Charleston Model Boat club is concerned, I can tell you that the IMPBA Gas Nats in June was set up for 6 boats heats from the very start. The class limits and the entry numbers followed suit. The Tunnel Champs (WTC) race in May was not first set up that way but I have adjusted the heat numbers to multiples of 6, so we can have 6 boat heats. Open slots have been cut accordingly. The 5th round may not be run due to time and that is noted on the race information at signup - 5 rounds time permitting. The race format has been set from the outset. Not right to make a major change midstream to set up an reduced heat that will eliminate racers that have paid their money. If a racer in 30th place wants to run his boat in the final heat has every right to do so and will be permitted accordingly. Maybe next year after this could be fleshed out in an intelligent and honorable manner for all concerned.

The REAL impact will be for the Fall Nationals. Over 60 to 80 slots (maybe more) will be cut to go to 6 boat heats for all 25 classes. There is an absolute max of 210 heats that we run for the race within the time allotted. I had over 360 boats registered for the 2012 Fall Nationals that sold out in 6 hours. Wait list was 88 boats deep at the start and ended at 7 for race time. No telling what could happen for this year. Each racer was limited last year to no more than 6 classes that can be entered and I see that dropping down to 5. I wish we could do the race with 18 classes but which ones gets cut? ALL classes had very good numbers for the Fall Nats in the past 4 years.

There is a price to pay at some major races. Many races held will not be impacted but the major ones, Spring Nats (already set up for 2013), Tunnel Champs, Hobart, Fall Nationals and the Winter Nationals will be turning people away in droves. Going to 3 or 4 day races is NOT the answer either. Most of them are already there. Just something to think about but go back to the first paragraph above for the positives. A balancing act for sure but I would think that over 50% of the races held will not have this problem to consider.

A move it the correct direction. Several will not put there boats in the water in the Spring Nats due to Overloaded heats. its the 1st of the year and the beginning of the racing season.. no point in getting as new boat destroyed before the season even starts.

 

[RonShaw]

John,

I would hate to see you limit the number of classes entered, or turn even more people away than in years past. History speaks for itself. If you continue to run the WTC and Fall Nats as you have in the past, and leave it alone, people will continue to come in droves. There haven't been many complaints lodged against past races that I am aware of and people keep coming. If you start making drastic changes, you stand the risk of making these races just like any other. Don't try to fix what's not broken. If you want to limit the number of boats per heat in the F Hydro and Twin classes, go for it. I would suggest leaving everything else alone and keep the two big races at CMB right where they have landed, as two of the most competitive and best races in the country for RC Boat racing........

PS- Natural attrition takes place at every race. What starts as 8 boat heats end up being 7 boat heats by the time the actual race day comes around. This turns into 6 boat heats by the second round, and still leaves you combining some heats by the last round. Don't try to fix what is not broken.

 

[Bob Morton]

John,

I would hate to see you limit the number of classes entered, or turn even more people away than in years past. History speaks for itself. If you continue to run the WTC and Fall Nats as you have in the past, and leave it alone, people will continue to come in droves. There haven't been many complaints lodged against past races that I am aware of and people keep coming. If you start making drastic changes, you stand the risk of making these races just like any other. Don't try to fix what's not broken. If you want to limit the number of boats in the F Hydro and Twin classes, go for it. I would suggest leaving everything else alone and keep the two big races at CMB right where they have landed, as two of the most competitive and best races in the country for RC Boat racing........

Limit F Hydro and Twin ? All classes need be limited to SIX boats. Just my opinion

 

[RonShaw]

John,

I would hate to see you limit the number of classes entered, or turn even more people away than in years past. History speaks for itself. If you continue to run the WTC and Fall Nats as you have in the past, and leave it alone, people will continue to come in droves. There haven't been many complaints lodged against past races that I am aware of and people keep coming. If you start making drastic changes, you stand the risk of making these races just like any other. Don't try to fix what's not broken. If you want to limit the number of boats in the F Hydro and Twin classes, go for it. I would suggest leaving everything else alone and keep the two big races at CMB right where they have landed, as two of the most competitive and best races in the country for RC Boat racing........

Limit F Hydro and Twin ??????

Number of boats per heat....I left that out, sorry...

 

[John Knight]

John, I think the best options are: 1] consider splitting gas and nitro, ie different races 2] Reduce the number of boats per person, thus more people can participate. 3] Reduce the number of classes.

If fewer people attended the long term potential is that there could be a real drop off in attendence. IE the airplane club I was in had 6 runways a great site. We had so many members at the field that you could only fly one time on Sunday afternoon. So do to great wisdom we limited taking in any new members. WELL that club no longer exists. Folks started new clubs, some died, some got involved in other things. It took about 2-3 yrs to see the impact of the decision that was made.

What ever is decided the decision should not adversely limit the number of participants BUT decrease the number of boats.

Also folks should consider other race sites. Evansville and Huntsville have two of the best sites in the country and put on excellent racing. In fact some of my best heats I have had have been in Huntsville and Evansville . Big Lakes, Great facilities and for those with bad knees NO SIGNIFICANT STEPS. Also this year the IMPBA Nats could have an impact on attendence. So give serious thought to your decsison, as you appear to be doing . This is a CLASSIC , SUCCESS is often harder to manage than getting to a successful situation.

Doc,

Splitting the race into 2 different races is WRONG. We host 3+ races every year. We are at our limit now and mine too. Reducing classes as I have stated is NOT possible. See my prior post. Both non-starters. Making the race longer is also WRONG. Reducing the boat entry limits for everyone is extremely likely. Some resisted last years reduction to 6 per racer and grumbled the entire time. Many rolled with the punches and accepted and told me they enjoyed the race more since they were not thrashing so much. Will rachet it down some more in the future. There can be a silver lining in the clouds if you seek it.

Telling racers to to go to another locale to race is not an option for us either. The Fall Nats gets very strong support from the south and north. The FL guys are not going to Evansville or even Huntsville as it is too far from them. These are BOTH gas and nitro racers. FL guys have a ton of races in their district now to attend. The same for those from the north. They come here because it is more central and the quality of the race is exceptional. All good aspects. People go to races that they enjoy the competition, feel supported and likes the overall quality of the race. I certainly do and so do many others.

Lastly, the Nitro Nats in late October may affect the Fall Nats but believe it may be less than some think. Only time will tell. We put the Internats in a period that did not have direct competition and the attendance was low. People that pushed us to host it did not show. Long race and poor economy did not help either. But we shall not do it again. We lost money after we had the course surveyed. Nitro Nats a very good possibility in the future but the internats no. We have the Gas Nats in June to host.

 

[stan simpson iv]

I can not wait till Brandon's Race...It will be one of the MANY races that you DO NOT wanna miss this year Atl. is gonna be a Barn burner no doubt. My dad told me NITRO was dead...well she is back alive and well and growing again. " I just hope we all can get together and trade some paint" like my wise friend Tom Foley said. Well guess what guy's,the retrieve boat is in..." You Are on the clock".... Sorry off topic!!!

 

[Joe Warren]

I can not wait till Brandon's Race...It will be one of the MANY races that you DO NOT wanna miss this year Atl. is gonna be a Barn burner no doubt. My dad told me NITRO was dead...well she is back alive and well and growing again. " I just hope we all can get together and trade some paint" like my wise friend Tom Foley said. Well guess what guy's,the retrieve boat is in..." You Are on the clock".... Sorry off topic!!!

Bring him to Atlanta........ His Nostrils will flare..... with tthe Thick Smell of Nitro.......... and his Ears with Ring with the ..........................Meooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww of the Motors. Its a...... Two Stroke Nitro Addiction ... :blink: :blink:

 

[Tom Foley]

Joe , went the Gator Nationals Friday and got my fill of 99.9999999999 % Nitro ! I stood at the fence for 4 hours right at the starting line and watched 70 Funny Car and Top Fuel rails run as well as Pro Stock cars and bikes ! Totally awesome is all I can say !!

 

[SayMikey]

Joe , went the Gator Nationals Friday and got my fill of 99.9999999999 % Nitro ! I stood at the fence for 4 hours right at the starting line and watched 70 Funny Car and Top Fuel rails run as well as Pro Stock cars and bikes ! Totally awesome is all I can say !!

Did your eyes water?

 

[Terry Keeley]

Joe , went the Gator Nationals Friday and got my fill of 99.9999999999 % Nitro ! I stood at the fence for 4 hours right at the starting line and watched 70 Funny Car and Top Fuel rails run as well as Pro Stock cars and bikes ! Totally awesome is all I can say !!

I'm VERY jealous!!!

See my man Kalitta is smokin'!!!

 

[Joe Warren]

Joe , went the Gator Nationals Friday and got my fill of 99.9999999999 % Nitro ! I stood at the fence for 4 hours right at the starting line and watched 70 Funny Car and Top Fuel rails run as well as Pro Stock cars and bikes ! Totally awesome is all I can say !!

Wish I was there...... :huh: Love the Nitro Smell of NHRA & the fact you can stand right with them in the pits.

 

[Tom Foley]

Joe , went the Gator Nationals Friday and got my fill of 99.9999999999 % Nitro ! I stood at the fence for 4 hours right at the starting line and watched 70 Funny Car and Top Fuel rails run as well as Pro Stock cars and bikes ! Totally awesome is all I can say !!

I'm VERY jealous!!!

See my man Kalitta is smokin'!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h1InoR9EIk

Terry , I sucked in so much nitro till my eyes bled and lungs cried !! I will never miss this event again and have plans for next year !!

 

[BigChuck]

Joe , went the Gator Nationals Friday and got my fill of 99.9999999999 % Nitro ! I stood at the fence for 4 hours right at the starting line and watched 70 Funny Car and Top Fuel rails run as well as Pro Stock cars and bikes ! Totally awesome is all I can say !!

I'm VERY jealous!!!

See my man Kalitta is smokin'!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h1InoR9EIk

Terry , I sucked in so much nitro till my eyes bled and lungs cried !! I will never miss this event again and have plans for next year !!

FOLEY..................I can wait for my NITRO FIX!!! They will be here in MAY......You should have gone into the stands to see all the woman with BIG SMILING FACES...!!!! :lol: :lol: