Home Brew (lubrication)

[Brian Spitzer]

Mark,

I use Rislone currently and have had no issues long or short term and do not think you need to disassemble the engine. My comment in regards to the Corrosion X was when I did use it on one occasion to store 2 engines long term, when the engines were dissembled it was found on both motors that the Corrosion X had gelled in behind the bearings.

Thank for for your comments on US-1, I couldn't be happier.

 

[dwilfong]

CRC Lectra-Motive to flush and any air tool oil to lube it up after.

 

[BrianNeumann]

Novarossi says to avoid any solvents on the silicone cranks. Have you found any sprays like contact cleaner or brake cleaner that won't harm silicone/putty? Also Jim it's a coincidence but I was looking at sea foam products at O'Reilly's after the pond meeting. But none of them noted if they were safe on silicone, rubber, plastic, etc... Is the rislone thin enough to blow through the engine? It would seem that outboard fogging oil would be a overall great solution since it does everything I am asking for except it also does not say that it's safe for my silicone crank. The corrosion x I got is just way too thick to actually flush anything out of the engine. I wish I had an extra Novarossi junk silicone crank as a test dummy and finally figure this out. I appreciate all the opinions you guys have thrown out. I know I am overcomplicating this but I don't want to ruin my first high end engine.

 

[John Beardslee]

Brian I use a small FIGI water bottle with fittings in it to hold the Rislone, that way I can screw off the cap and refill. I like the bottle because it stands vertical for storage and travels well. I plumb it to the carb and blow in the vent line to get Rislone up to the carb before spinning with the starter (I'm not of fan of spinning the engines until dry) I cover the carb with a thumb or finger to pull it in to the engine with the glow plug removed I also cover the plug hole with my finger or thumb and open each periodically to allow the Rislone to blow out the plug hole. It is a mess for sure, I've tried a screw in line in the plug hole but the Rislone is to thick to and it won't draw that way. After pulling in a reasonable amount of Rislone, I stop and disconnect the feed line and then flood the engine with Rislone from a separate bottle through the plug and carb while slowly rotating the crank and tipping the engine to make sure the bearings are well coated. I get great life out of the bearing with this method. I also pull the engines if not at the pond immediately after I get home and wash the boat tub with alcohol (rubbing).

Thanks, John

 

[Timbo Whalen]

My question is how do you get all of the remaining fuel out of the engine before you put in the after run oil? I know that the WD-40 is supposed to flush out the fuel/water from the engine but, I have an engine with a silicone ramped crank and I've heard WD-40 will cause it to swell. Any advice would be appreciated!

Nothing you could use for after run is going to harm the silicon crankshaft insert-ie-NovaRossi. There are only a couple of exotic fluorocarbon concoctions that I'm aware of that will emulsify cured silicone, and that's in a constant contact, submersed state. We like MMO mixed with PB Blaster and a smidge of acetone, followed by a light pickle of MMO/Klotz Heliglo. This has worked for us since the 1980's and we've never had any catastrophic bearing anomalies.

Just check the MSDS documentation on whatever you choose.

 

[John Beardslee]

I can almost garrantee that if you use WD40 & Marvel Mystery Oil (both petroleum based) you will have the silicone ramp coming apart and going through your bearings. Hummm, been there done that, thanks to the sage advice from Glenn Quarrels I made a change in my afterun protocol.

Thanks John

 

[BrianNeumann]

So John you use the rislone for the flushing of the engine and after run storage?

 

[BrianNeumann]

Also are you saying the rislone was Glenn Quarles adivce?

 

[John Beardslee]

No, Glenn told me to not use a petroleum based after run, he uses turbin oil, I did as well for a while until my old supply ran out and Jim Wilson suggested Rislone, the price was good and availability is excellent and I'm not sorry I made the change.

Thanks John

 

[John Beardslee]

I use Rislone for after run and storage, I use Corrosion X on a new engine to coat everything inside and out before the first run, after that I use it in the water cooling lines and if I tear down an engine and cleaned parts with brake clean I re-coat with Corrosion X, I also use it on the collet, flywheel and crank area to eliminate corrosion.

Thanks John

 

[Timbo Whalen]

I can almost garrantee that if you use WD40 & Marvel Mystery Oil (both petroleum based) you will have the silicone ramp coming apart and going through your bearings. Hummm, been there done that, thanks to the sage advice from Glenn Quarrels I made a change in my afterun protocol.

Thanks John

Hi John- our recipe has never caused any issues, normally speaking, and we've never had bearing issues. As far as the adverse effects on silicone, it's entirely possible. We merely suggested no ill effect based on laboratory analysis regarding silicon emulsification from petroleum distillates and typical associated solvents. Novarossi's language regarding the silicon in their crankshafts specifically reads-

'Do not clean the silicone tuned crankshaft with solvent or gasoline.'

A bit ironic, considering methanol and nitromethane are both solvents, no?...

Anyway, Rislone Engine Treatment is interesting stuff. It is almost entirely comprised of paraffinic substances, with a seasoning of zinc-

Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated heavy paraffinic- >50%

Distillates (petroleum), hydtrotreated middle- <10%

Distillates (petroleum), solvent-refined heavy paraffinic- <10%

Zinc Dialkyldithiophosphate- <1%

We can see where it would form a paraffin coating on exposed components. As far as Corrosion X, we've seen it, but haven't tried it yet. We used to use Boeshield T-9 on brand new and overhauled engines- bare metal components. Have some new engines coming right now, so we'll try your advice regarding Corrosion X. Of further note, we've wondered about this

Boca Bearing product LBT Lightning Lube... any experience with it?-

https://www.bocabearings.com/products/lube--tools-and-more/lbt-lightning-lube?ProductType=2

Hey John, check your messages, please... have some questions about Michigan 'goings on'.

 

[JimZaremski]

[quote

Anyway, Rislone Engine Treatment is interesting stuff. It is almost entirely comprised of paraffinic substances, with a seasoning of zinc-

Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated heavy paraffinic- >50%

Distillates (petroleum), hydtrotreated middle- <10%

Distillates (petroleum), solvent-refined heavy paraffinic- <10%

Zinc Dialkyldithiophosphate- <1%

it's not that interesting; that combination of paraffinic distillates is basically conventional motor oil. the last ingredient (ZDDP) is an anti-wear additive; it forms a sacrificial coating on wear surfaces like bearings and cylinder walls. Motor oil has contained ZDDP for a long time, but over time newer API standards have gradually been reducing it since phosphorous can poison oxygen sensors and catalytic converters.

 

[John Beardslee]

I can almost garrantee that if you use WD40 & Marvel Mystery Oil (both petroleum based) you will have the silicone ramp coming apart and going through your bearings. Hummm, been there done that, thanks to the sage advice from Glenn Quarrels I made a change in my afterun protocol.

Thanks John

Hi John- our recipe has never caused any issues, normally speaking, and we've never had bearing issues. As far as the adverse effects on silicone, it's entirely possible. We merely suggested no ill effect based on laboratory analysis regarding silicon emulsification from petroleum distillates and typical associated solvents. Novarossi's language regarding the silicon in their crankshafts specifically reads-

'Do not clean the silicone tuned crankshaft with solvent or gasoline.'

A bit ironic, considering methanol and nitromethane are both solvents, no?...

Anyway, Rislone Engine Treatment is interesting stuff. It is almost entirely comprised of paraffinic substances, with a seasoning of zinc-

Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated heavy paraffinic- >50%

Distillates (petroleum), hydtrotreated middle- <10%

Distillates (petroleum), solvent-refined heavy paraffinic- <10%

Zinc Dialkyldithiophosphate- <1%

We can see where it would form a paraffin coating on exposed components. As far as Corrosion X, we've seen it, but haven't tried it yet. We used to use Boeshield T-9 on brand new and overhauled engines- bare metal components. Have some new engines coming right now, so we'll try your advice regarding Corrosion X. Of further note, we've wondered about this

Boca Bearing product LBT Lightning Lube... any experience with it?-

https://www.bocabearings.com/products/lube--tools-and-more/lbt-lightning-lube?ProductType=2

Hey John, check your messages, please... have some questions about Michigan 'goings on'.

Hi Tim,

I used a blend of WD40 and 20% Marvel Mystery oil for years but when I started running NR engines Glenn indicated that after run recipe would be a problem and he suggested Turbine oil which I had a pretty good supply so I used that until I ran out and I switched to Rislone. The Betke's used Marvel Mystery oil as an after run and the silicone ramps in their 46 motors are no longer in their engines. They still run them that way as far as I know and they always run good and I think they are still using Marvel Mystery oil. I'm no chemist so I rely on engine manufactures and their reps for information as well as trusted racers from around the country ie: Glenn Quarrels, Jim Wilson (deceased) and Mark Sholund. I'm sure there are many products out there that will work and serve the racing community well.

Thanks, John

 

[Timbo Whalen]

I can almost garrantee that if you use WD40 & Marvel Mystery Oil (both petroleum based) you will have the silicone ramp coming apart and going through your bearings. Hummm, been there done that, thanks to the sage advice from Glenn Quarrels I made a change in my afterun protocol.

Thanks John

Hi John- our recipe has never caused any issues, normally speaking, and we've never had bearing issues. As far as the adverse effects on silicone, it's entirely possible. We merely suggested no ill effect based on laboratory analysis regarding silicon emulsification from petroleum distillates and typical associated solvents. Novarossi's language regarding the silicon in their crankshafts specifically reads-

'Do not clean the silicone tuned crankshaft with solvent or gasoline.'

A bit ironic, considering methanol and nitromethane are both solvents, no?...

Anyway, Rislone Engine Treatment is interesting stuff. It is almost entirely comprised of paraffinic substances, with a seasoning of zinc-

Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated heavy paraffinic- >50%

Distillates (petroleum), hydtrotreated middle- <10%

Distillates (petroleum), solvent-refined heavy paraffinic- <10%

Zinc Dialkyldithiophosphate- <1%

We can see where it would form a paraffin coating on exposed components. As far as Corrosion X, we've seen it, but haven't tried it yet. We used to use Boeshield T-9 on brand new and overhauled engines- bare metal components. Have some new engines coming right now, so we'll try your advice regarding Corrosion X. Of further note, we've wondered about this

Boca Bearing product LBT Lightning Lube... any experience with it?-

https://www.bocabearings.com/products/lube--tools-and-more/lbt-lightning-lube?ProductType=2

Hey John, check your messages, please... have some questions about Michigan 'goings on'.

Hi Tim,

I used a blend of WD40 and 20% Marvel Mystery oil for years but when I started running NR engines Glenn indicated that after run recipe would be a problem and he suggested Turbine oil which I had a pretty good supply so I used that until I ran out and I switched to Rislone. The Betke's used Marvel Mystery oil as an after run and the silicone ramps in their 46 motors are no longer in their engines. They still run them that way as far as I know and they always run good and I think they are still using Marvel Mystery oil. I'm no chemist so I rely on engine manufactures and their reps for information as well as trusted racers from around the country ie: Glenn Quarrels, Jim Wilson (deceased) and Mark Sholund. I'm sure there are many products out there that will work and serve the racing community well.

Thanks, John

Agreed, on the last sentence, John... I have an NR46DD on the way as we speak... NR's explanation of the silicone is '... the inlet has a silicon filling to reduce the weight of the crankshaft to improve acceleration.'... I guess we'll just have to open the engine up when she gets here and have a look-see. I've never encountered this before so it will be interesting to see if it appears to have any affect on other dynamics.

Thanks for the input, John.

 

[John Beardslee]

Hi Tim

I only run the DD's, Rob Betke runs the wrap around .46 and that's the engines the ramp wash out of. I think the Betke's could be up north on vacation, Mike may add to this thread after they get home.

John

 

[Mike Larson]

The ramp is pressed in to my knowledge...... normally , and because ive eaten ramps, along with catastrophic engine failure, chunks of ramps and you name it... id been recommended to use alcohol( initial flush) in future ramped... but relentless.. I still flush residual fuel with planned wasted WD40, first and use a quality air tool oil for my pickle... the rags and wrap deal.. the deal is... I don't drown the engine in the final pickle because the oil may seep into the silicone bond between the crank surface, , maybe swell it, and then... 9 times of ten to date... I will upon inspection after testing if... I'm lucky.. the ramp will be spun in the journal, ( the engine acted up first)... and... there it is and I got lucky... or... the crank chops the dang thing up and it goes through the engine... so... it is what it is... somebody stated moisture, and another guy does a complete disassembly, bearing check and inspection, and this is what I also do... boat too... clean... you'll feel a bad bearing... see the ramp is not right... rods got slop.... idk.. everybodies different... but whatever, imo, solvent you choose... moisture is the deal... nitro is an oxidizer, and ive had success with my method more than not... easily... now... ive poured ramps with a metal bonding epoxy, and had them deteriorate too... I'm here nor there on the ramp benefits not combined with a lot of other modifications etc.... so... might get me a can o corrosion x and just back to back this deal... who knows.. just flush well and oil em up... but keep your eye on things as engine failure to me... normally coulda been prevented... luck....

 

[John Beardslee]

Hi Mike

Good to hear from you, hope all is well with you. You'll like Corrosion X, I know people that use it on new engines, use it for after run as well as long term storage. I'm not there yet but it kills rust and it's amazing on electrical connectors on my full sized boat. I get the pump spray from John Otto and bug it by the gallon on line to refill.

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Hi Tim

I only run the DD's, Rob Betke runs the wrap around .46 and that's the engines the ramp wash out of. I think the Betke's could be up north on vacation, Mike may add to this thread after they get home.

John

OK, great... I'm pretty excited about getting mine...guess it's heading out when Ron gets back from vaca, too... thanks, John.

 

[BrianNeumann]

So my conclusion in reading this so far is that corrosion x is ok and so is rislone. Is the rislone a thinner viscosity than the corrosion x? I still don't see corrosion x flushing out the nitro and water with how thick it is. So if rislone is the same I still won't be accomplishing my goal of cleaning out the engine before filling it with corrosion x. Sorry if I am repeating myself but I just want to be on the right track.

 

[BrianNeumann]

I also completely understand tearing the engine down for a thorough cleaning/inspection. but it's the in between time at the end of the day that I want to properly flush and then protect the engine.