Gene's Prop Tech/ Part II

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ggillman

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Hey Guy's,

I run across a excellent thread a Jims R/C, info will be from some of the guys that commented, its great stuff, I am doing this a little at a time cause me and the Server did a tap dance last nite and lost the info once, "Take Two, Rollin :D

Question was: "What prop mods and Why"

Reducing Diameter and definitions,

Here is what Denzils had to say:

Some of the mods are easy to understand, The Barr cut, rounded notch at the trailing edge by the hub, Back cut, 1/8"at the hub to 0" at the tip, and also trimming back the lead lobe all reduce the low end load on the prop so it can get the rpms up quicker. The trailing edge of the blade must be squared off with a file to a sharp edge so the water comes off it clean on the concave side.

And here is Mike T:

Thes best reason I can give for cutting down the diameter is to get the pitch that comes on the larger prop, but reduce the size, thus reducing the bite, to free up some out of the hole and through the turns. You reduce the tongue to cut off that lower pitched part of the blade, also frees it up and allows it to slip a little and keep the revs up in the turns. Meanwhile the greater pitch can kick in and give you longer legs at top speed. You must also thin the blades a lot to keep your concave shape on the power face or all the rest of that will be a waste of time. Remember a lot of these props were designed several years ago and need to be updated for what we are trying to do now. Its also money well spent to buy a couple props worked over by the masters and keep them as examples of what you want to achieve.

And your Humble Moderator:

I have tried this with the next size larger prop and had great results, just reduce the dia, thin the blades and cup the tips to reduce the thrust cone. Perfect to me would be when the engine hits the pipe, the roostertail lays down and your GONE!!!!!

Ok now, go grab up some props, yer files and dremel, with some sandpaper and get after it,

Gene ;D
 
Geneo!

A picture is worth a 1000 words. Could you do some before & after example pictures?

Later!

Ed Radz
 
Thanks Billy, ;)

Ed here is a link to Paul G.'s site, pics of every kind of prop mod ya can think of, these are the larger Zenoah gas props, but the same principals apply:

http://www.rcprops.com/rcprops/index.html

And here is Marty's site, with diagrams on blade shapes:

http://rcboat.com/prop.htm

I will dig around and see what I can come up with too.

Also anybody have a shot of yer fav prop mod , Post it!!! :D

Gene ;D
 
I spent some time this weekend comparing one of Andy's 1445 props to the stock 1445. I noticed that the concave or face of the blade is smooth and consistent from the tongue to the tip. The stock prop has a high spot right in the middle of the blade where the pitch changes. It shows as a high spot compared to Andy's when measured on the pitch gauge. I was wondering if anybody has worked out that spot and what tools worked best.

I have also noticed that the changes are very slight. A 1/16" off the tongue makes alot of difference.

Props are difficult to mesure and compare because all surfaces are curved. I found that a piece of stiff clay works pretty good. Use some to get the stock surface then use it to see how your mods are coming. Make another after your mods and use it to set the other blade so they match.

-MikeP
 
I will add that Denzils KNOWS HIS PROPS.

He knows how to tweek and make speed on prop mods.

I have learned alot from him on props and boats.

The bar cuts do work well, It will give you more RPMs,

and cutting off the leading edge will unload it some.

I have drilled 1/4 inch holes in the tongue (leading edge) of the prop, frees it up some. But if your new and trying something, that might be easier than to cut off the leading edge and trying to make both blades the same.

Now some people, am not sure about this, But some sharpen the trailing edge across the top, still thick, but flat top, Others sharpen it where its thin and sharp.

I sharpen them thin and sharp, and i know denzils sharpens them across the top.

NT
 
Gene,

It looks quite good! 8) I can do CAD modelling, I have a friend who runs a CNC mill, and I know another guy who can make cast props from patterns! ;D I am betting the program isn't cheap tho. :- :(

Nitrocrazed racing: So many ideas, so little time!
 
No price on the site and you have to request it. I'm betting it will be big bucks!
 
Yeah it never fails, The KEWL CAD stuff is always BIG BUCKS!!!!

Ians Prop Emporium: We can make it work!!!! ;)

Gene ;D
 
Well, I got a reply from them after downloading the presentation! Now I will ask the $64000 question: Emma Chisset? ???

Does anyone have some good Computational Fluid Dynamics software they can lend me for studying the aerodynamics of sponsons running near the water's surface? :p

Nitrocrazed racing: What will I call these props?
 
Yeah thats a bit much for my wallet too!!! :D

Ian, I did have a Fluid Dynamics pgm that also did airfoils, lift drag ratios approaching mach speed, but my laptop took a dump and all was lost :p I did back up some of the other stuff but that pgm went bye,bye, O Well ;)

Gene ;D
 
Gene,

After you posted that pic from the CFD program I did a bit of a search and found some share-ware program, but I didn't try it. I dont have the aerodynamic background to understand the data they put out! : :) Need to go back to Uni!

Nitrocrazed racing: Hang on, I work at a Uni....
 
Yeah the shareware version did computations and displays but would not allow you to save your work!!! Bummer :p

No worries, displays were a X-Y plot of lift to drag and 3D modeling of the leading edge turbulance aproaching Mach speed.

What was KEWL, was it had all the common airfoil types stored in the data base, Drat the Luck 8)

Gene ;D
 
Gene,

I am not sure if the software I found was the same as whaat you had. But I am interested in the aerodynamics of mono's and sponsons and the interaction with the water's surface. A moving ground plane wind tunnel would be nice! ;D

Nitrocrazed racing: I wonder if the Ferrari F1 team would let me use their wind tunnel....
 
Okay prop devotees:

After a bit of work and help by a friend who does 3D modelling in IDEAS we actually managed to model a prop blade that looked quite good and had pretty much all the pitch characteristics that I have observed in props I own.

But I want to know what causes lift. I have been told all sorts of things, most of which just dont seem to hold up. Rake for instance. I have heard it suggested that higher rakes reduce lift, yet an X series is low rake and low lift, and a V series is high rake and high lift. Prop-Shops tend to have low rakes but are lifting props. Another suggestion was prop with higher pitch at the hub tends to cause water to move out on the blade, causing lift. Well in measuring props I think I have only found one type which had more pitch at the hub, the P series, which is lifting.

What I always thought was lift came from the curvature of the blades. If you look at an X series prop looking along the surface of the blade from the tip towards the hub you notice that the blade curves back from the hub to the tip. On an X series tho the last bit near the tip is flat. On any lifting prop I have seen this area isn't flat and continues to curve back. On props that have beenpitched at the tip to ruduce lift, this area is somewhat flattened. My theory is as water moves along the blade, if this area is curved it tends to push water out towards the tip and creates lift. If it is flatter it doesn't push the water out.

But I am just guessing here. The main reason I raise this is the prop I modelled would be high lift in my eyes. Which I dont want. Pretty much every full size prop I have seen has this curved blade type. I just wonder if I have this prop made if it will be very high lift? Any ideas?

Nitrocrazd racing: Way too much spare time....
 
Ian, I ran across these while doing a search at google.com for prop lift and rake, and thought they might help:

Gene ;D
 

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