Future of RC's

[Bob Blazer]

As I observe the direction that RC boating has progressed over the last few years I feel compelled to voice my opinion.

I am all in favor to go faster within the current written rules, but not to make changes to the rules to go faster. My question is, are we going too fast? I think that we do need classes that go super fast but how many of the drivers have the necessary skill set to go that fast? I have heard this comment numerous times, “I have an 80mph boat and a 60mph brain”.

Also, consider the cost. When we all are out running our boats and some spectators come up the first thing they ask is “How fast does that thing go?” The second question is “How much does it cost?” The RC Sport is in competition, like it or not, with all other sports and hobbies. We don’t want to price ourselves out of the market for a newbe.

An example of this would be the twin riggers. Everyone stops what they are doing to watch them run at a race. They are exciting! So why aren’t there more of them as compared to the stock classes? There are not many drivers with the skill set to drive a twin rigger and the cost is extremely high.

I am going to rely on my experience with the real hydros. They priced themselves out of the market, along with a lot of other motor sports. I would hope that this does not happen to our RC’s.

Now I am going to talk out of both sides of my mouth. I think we have too many classses due to engine size, hull configuration or whatever. On the other hand a stock gas sport class would be great. It would lower the speeds and make the available engines more economical. I would also like to promote a minimum weight limit on most classes. This would keep the people with deep pockets from building boats with costly composites and level the playing field. Pure speed is one thing but a close neck to neck race is what it is all about. Two or three guys coming down for the finish is exciting.

Also, consider eliminating the tuned pipes on certain stock classes. For example, the Cracker. Have a maximum diameter on the straight exhaust pipe. This would cut about $100 off the cost of the boat.

I’m not trying to ruffle any feathers or stir the pot. I’m just trying to make the RC boats more enticing to the average Joe. I am posting this because I want RC boating to remain a great sport. My intention is not to reinvent the wheel but to keep the sport healthy and strong.


Making roostertails longer for years. Bob Blazer

 

[BigChuck]

Bob, while I think you are looking at things from the prospective of cost. Much like you said, "it is competition." You also have to consider each person is his own
crew, tuner, driver, financial backer, strategist......etc. Each individual makes those decision. So each individual knows where his money is at and what he spends.
IF price gets to expensive vs. performance, that individual has to make their own decision.

You mentioned "TWINs", I can only assume you are talking about gas twins. On this side, the twin class has been and still is....STACKED!!! No one is talking but new twins
are in progress now as I type. I will say, IMHO that the twin gas class has not ( to date) produced the level of competition that Twin/X hydro has. Why is that,I don't know.

The average Joe, like all of us are controlled by our personal financial budgets. But even stock class off the shelf, to making laps is a $1100.00 dollar investment.
This person goes to their first race and comes last in a six boat heat. Now what, its a stock class he is no were near the front.

That competitive nature is the driving, defining, or detouring factor. It is the one part of this WHOLE equitation that you can not control.
it is however, the one thing that will keep the SPORT going.

 

[julianconde]

It’s like drag racing. You have your classes based on your budget. In general nothing in this hobby is cheap engines, pipes, boats, radios ect. A entry level boat like a 21 tunnel or a 21 Mono will put you right around 700-800 or more if you buy everything new.
As far as Twin hydros your looking at a lot of money naturally because your using 2 of everything on the boat so yeah of course you can build a Twin 21 all the way up to a twin 101 your looking at thousands either way you go.

It’s all about what you can afford period. Nothing in this hobby is cheap

 

[Hydro Junkie]

I am going to rely on my experience with the real hydros. They priced themselves out of the market, along with a lot of other motor sports. I would hope that this does not happen to our RC’s.

Actually, cost was only a minor issue when it comes to the number of boats. The bigger issue was lack of engines and parts to keep them running. I know that has been a major problem for the Hydroplane and Raceboat Museum. When they restore or build a replica boat(such as the new under construction 1979 Squire Shop), finding an engine to power that boat becomes a serious problem. To get an engine to power the Pay'N Pak, Ken Muscatel was forced to buy the 1960 Miss Thriftway and take the Merlin out if it and install it into the Pak. That was more the reason to the Lycoming turbine for power than anything else. With today's modern boats, the materials used and the cost of machining custom parts has seriously increased the cost of building a boat but that's more of an issue of effectively using the power of the turbine and inflation than with the boats themselves

 

[Mark Poole ModVP]

When you are talking about racing anything you are talking $$$. I have raced life size boats, RC boats and kayaks. The $$$ is in specialized equipment. Want to have any chance of winning a kayak race? You will have to use a 'wing' paddle. Those cost $400 minimum. If you are going to be competitive in any of the hi performance classes then be ready to spend $3500 on a performance kayak. Racing dictates this. Now, if you don't want to race, then kayaking equipment is fairly cheap. If you don't want to race RC boats it's the same way. Buy used boats and engines and go to the lake and have fun with your buddies or your kids.

I have always been surprised how few people in RC boat racing build their own boats. It is not rocket science. I could build a tunnel hull with a ply center section and solid balsa sponsons for less than $50. The boat that holds the B sport record is built that way. I am going to race next year with tunnels that are half composite and half balsa. It gets destroyed, I am only out of $50 and some build time. That hurts way less than a $500 hull being destroyed.

To your question... are we going too fast? Ask any RC racer and they will say there is no such thing as too fast. Speed costs money. Look at what one guy in particular is doing to the record book lately.

 

[julianconde]

This is not a sport it’s a hobby. No matter what class you look at You are going to be investing from $600-$1000 if you buy the equipment brand new.

 

[MikeStewart]

Stock class should be for beginners. Something like 1 year and under experience. Too many times you see it in stock class, the experienced racer gets cut off because newbie can't hold his lane in the back straight, he cut off a boat that he didn't notice was going to lap him, that is going twice as fast as him. Now 2 boats are smashed, the newbie is DQ'ed, the experienced racer is pissed. It's like me playing in my son's little league baseball. So now newbie thinks "I spent $800.00 for this? I thought this would be a way to bond with my kid, when every other kid is on their computer alone in their room. Now some guy is pissed and talking crap about me in front of my kid. Or worse yet, is pissed at my kid. If I wanted someone upset and yelling at me, I would of stayed home and argued with my wife." This is how we get people to want to do our hobby? All the help in the world for the new guy can be wasted by one bad experience. This was just hypothetical, but everyone here knows they have seen it.

 

[MikeStewart]

It only takes 1 A*+hole to ruin boating for a newbie. Imagine being a spectator seeing some racer cussing and storming around pissed off. Imagine spectators kid seeing this. Remember, to the spectators these are not race boats costing Thousands of dollars. To spectators these are mostly grown men and women racing toy boats. Really cool toy boats.

 

[Grimracer]

Stock class should be for beginners. Something like 1 year and under experience. Too many times you see it in stock class, the experienced racer gets cut off because newbie can't hold his lane in the back straight, he cut off a boat that he didn't notice was going to lap him, that is going twice as fast as him. Now 2 boats are smashed, the newbie is DQ'ed, the experienced racer is pissed. It's like me playing in my son's little league baseball. So now newbie thinks "I spent $800.00 for this? I thought this would be a way to bond with my kid, when every other kid is on their computer alone in their room. Now some guy is pissed and talking crap about me in front of my kid. Or worse yet, is pissed at my kid. If I wanted someone upset and yelling at me, I would of stayed home and argued with my wife." This is how we get people to want to do our hobby? All the help in the world for the new guy can be wasted by one bad experience. This was just hypothetical, but everyone here knows they have seen it.

I for one do not follow this methodology, I VERY MUCH welcome new racers into the stock class WITH the experts. Let them know if they pay attention to the faster guys they too will get faster. I have NEVER had (or at least dont remember) a new guy cause the issues talked about in the post.

Encourage them.. the expert racer knows the possible result.. if they are the racer they think they are they have the ability to "see it coming" and avoid the issue. They also have the experience to remember what it was like to be new once too.

Encourage the new racer to join into the stock class.
Help guide them in there mill time.
Shake there hand when the heat is over and ether take your lumps if they handed you your........... or let them know they did a good job and there time will come.

Grim

 

[Bradley Maglinger]

Mike I totally see where you are coming from. What would you suggest when the beginners graduate after a year from stock and has to leave the class, but the next year there is a newbie that joins and no one is in the class but them?

 

[Grimracer]

You dont ever "graduate" from stock (Sport Tunnel).. its not nor was ever brought in to the IMPBA as a beginners class.. I do however feel is a good place to start because of the "Slightly" more simple design and setup and cost (cost is relative) of the boat.

At this point.. from what I can tell.. the IMPBA has never successfully implemented a beginners class. Randy Rap had / has about the best attempt at this but not sure its doing anything anymore.

Some clubs have done a nice job of making some of this work.. but as people cycle in and out.. the class comes and goes so its hard to maintain... then the damage is done just as you have said.. you end up with one guy and he has nobody to race because of a down cycle or if it goes as you said.. you have graduated them all and nobody but one person is coming in..

The club said "Beginners class" and the new racer is now got that frame of mind...

Sport tunnel fills well.. All are welcome.. I can not speak for others but I try to encourage new racers in the class and help incubate them into regular attendance..

Grim

 

[Hydro Junkie]

You dont ever "graduate" from stock (Sport Tunnel).. its not nor was ever brought in to the IMPBA as a beginners class.. I do however feel is a good place to start because of the "Slightly" more simple design and setup and cost (cost is relative) of the boat.

At this point.. from what I can tell.. the IMPBA has never successfully implemented a beginners class. Randy Rap had / has about the best attempt at this but not sure its doing anything anymore.

Some clubs have done a nice job of making some of this work.. but as people cycle in and out.. the class comes and goes so its hard to maintain... then the damage is done just as you have said.. you end up with one guy and he has nobody to race because of a down cycle or if it goes as you said.. you have graduated them all and nobody but one person is coming in..

The club said "Beginners class" and the new racer is now got that frame of mind...

Sport tunnel fills well.. All are welcome.. I can not speak for others but I try to encourage new racers in the class and help incubate them into regular attendance..

Grim

I know that in the Pacific Northwest, at some of the NAMBA D8 races, they run a beginner series of heats. If you want to race, show up with a boat and you will go into the beginner heats. The kind of boat doesn't matter, meaning you could be running with tunnels, hydros or vee hulls. It is a way for a new boater to get their first taste of racing and, since everyone has an experienced racer as a spotter/coach, they don't have to really worry about getting cut off or hit as the experienced driver is watching for that for them.

 

[Grimracer]

You dont ever "graduate" from stock (Sport Tunnel).. its not nor was ever brought in to the IMPBA as a beginners class.. I do however feel is a good place to start because of the "Slightly" more simple design and setup and cost (cost is relative) of the boat.

At this point.. from what I can tell.. the IMPBA has never successfully implemented a beginners class. Randy Rap had / has about the best attempt at this but not sure its doing anything anymore.

Some clubs have done a nice job of making some of this work.. but as people cycle in and out.. the class comes and goes so its hard to maintain... then the damage is done just as you have said.. you end up with one guy and he has nobody to race because of a down cycle or if it goes as you said.. you have graduated them all and nobody but one person is coming in..

The club said "Beginners class" and the new racer is now got that frame of mind...

Sport tunnel fills well.. All are welcome.. I can not speak for others but I try to encourage new racers in the class and help incubate them into regular attendance..

Grim

Mike Stewert.. do you concur?
Grim

 

[MikeStewart]

Having an experienced racer pitting for you while you are running can really teach you a lot. Maybe stock to 2 or 3 years experience, or even 5 years. I get your point about running out of new drivers. I also know that I put a G-1 motor in my mono, cat and have a G-1 Backlash now. I should be running stock class for my driving skills, but it is not fun for me when I have no chance to win. It's a dilemma for sure. I enjoy running boats and have been going to our pond for 30 years and have several friends that run boats as well. We just never really got into racing. Running G-1, my boats are fast enough that I could win, Or maybe I'll only make 2 laps. It feels alright either way. I apologize for driving over my head in G-1, but stock is not fun when it should be.

 

[Mike Cathey]

I often have people ask how much it costs to compete in the scale classes. When I tell them they mostly say WOW! My response is it's all relative. I then ask them have you checked out the price a new Harley or Mustang GT or other factory hot rod lately? Most of the people I know that have them are hobbyists and not using them for basic transportation.

This hobby packs a big wallop in fun a for pretty reasonable price. I don't think you are going to find a much cheaper form of racing that has an ala carte menu of classes and budgets.

 

[LohringMiller]

Stock power classes have been the most popular in our club for nearly 30 years. In the beginning it was the stock K&B outboard tunnels. Today it is the P limited electrics and stock 26 cc Zenoahs. Cost is not the only reason. If you are new, a stock class makes it easy to build a boat while acquiring the expertise to run in the modified classes. You get to run on a more even playing field with racers that have been in the hobby for ears. At the national level teching the power plant is an issue. At our club, we know each other and have a really good idea how members' engines are built.

Lohring Miller

 

[MikeStewart]

"At our club, we know each other and have a really good idea how members' engines are built." Isn't this the problem? If you are a new racer you don't know how others engines are built. In stock class you should know how an engine is built... it should be built at factory. Can't we replace a piston ring without doing something else to make it a little faster? Or a lot faster? Stock class should be a stock class. doing anything to a stock motor besides changing a ring, or bearings, with stock parts is cheating. Isn't it? You can race any other class you want with mods to motor. Maybe for stock class, everyone's engine goes into a box. Then you pick any motor from the box for the day, as long as it is not yours, or your team mates. At the end of the race you get your engine back.

 

[Carl Van Houten]

I guess we have all at some point looked around at a race and said "Where are the young drivers"? There are a few that show up but the old farts my age way out number them so the future of R/C is not hard to predict if things don't change. I have provided nitro boats for this sport since 1985 and a lot has changed since then (for other classes mostly) and Just as Brian has touched on, I would like to see some cheaper options for racing too such as the 7.5cc O/B Super Sport class but these things take time. The class has to build, you have to recruit drivers and help people setup competitive boats in your area. Who knows what classes will prevail from all this but I see a lot of people still having fun at races.

R/C boat racing is probably the cheapest racing I have ever done. Try keeping a full size alcohol guzzling outboard hydro race ready and you will have a different outlook on R/C racing cost. I had a guy pull up in a $65,000.00 bass boat while I was testing my R/C tunnel once and told me that R/C boat racing was too expensive LOL. WHAT?

I think the biggest mistake people make in this hobby that takes the fun out of racing R/C boats is racing too many classes. I have seen people do this over and over and it just isn't fun when you are killing yourself at a race trying to maintain a ton of boats. I had rather see someone have a couple of really competitive boats than to see someone trashing trying to run six or eight and not having one really good boat out of the bunch.

Okay...back to what ever I was doing before my Adult ADD kicked in!

 

[Grimracer]

Just tossing out some thoughts.............


Racer...
You can not have my motor.. (not my personal thoughts).. its my motor and i paid for it.. I AM NOT CHEATING but you still can not have my motor..

and then its the same old..

Other racer
(well then we need to TARE DOWN..)

Racer..
You can not take my motor apart.. I wont allow it.. I have it running nice and I dont want to split it apart.

Other racer...
"then some body should donate the motors or the club could buy them and keep them".. (then devils advocate)..

Club dude..
I am not dragging all that crap to the races let alone buy them so YOU can have fun... I have my own junk to worry about.

Grim
In steps SPORT CLASS...... (and this IS my opinion).. Sport racing ends all that BS.

.... and if you dont win or feel competitive.. work harder... its noble.. ask others for some guidance.. LISTEN TO THEM.. its again a great option.. Its RC boats and WE racers LOVE TO TALK TOY BOATS!

ASK AWAY.. LISTEN with grace and work harder then the next guy.

YOU WILL WIN... it does not matter what class you race then.. the work is not dedicated to the class only.. but the hobby its self as well..



Grim

 

[Jeff Barnes]

I'm just getting back into rc boating after 28 year s of raising kids and putting them through college I have about 6,000 into 5 boats which seems like a lot to some people. But when I was in the sport of snowmobiling my sled cost 10.000 wife's sled was 6,000 and about 3,000 into kids sled plus clothes gas belts and trailer 6,000 into boats seem cheap. Thanks Jeff