Fuel Proof Paint...

[HOTWATER]

Since we are talking about painting and clear coats, I would like to get your methodolgy and what materials you use to POLISH the clear coat. I use PPG single stage paint with PPG clear. PPG single stage painted on an epoxy sealed motor compartment and tank area followed with PPG clear is the ONLY thing I have found that will stand up to 60-65% nitro. I have filled the tank area with fuel, inadvertantly, and not lifted the paint.DOC

You must paint like my boyfriend does with single stage paints.. He would spray 3 coats of colors then two coats with 1/2&1/2 clear&color..somtmes last coat with 3/4 clear 1/4 color...I havent used single stage that much,maybe shoot it three times..We wet sand with 1500 use 3M micro finsh compound then use 3M fennessing compund and 3m machines glaze it..but at time just mico finish and machineglaze your finish...Joe likes PPG shopline paint system...I liked NAPA's Crossfire system...But I'm starting to like Shopline too.

Damn!!!...I'm just gonna send my boats to you for finishing!!! What do I know... I use single stage rattle cans!

-Kent

 

[misshydro]

Deleted not knowing that I already replied to this thread....

Ask Ron Olson about my boats finishes..He saw them at Fortwayne R/C show....The boat in my avatar is rattle canned with dupi-color and sprayed with Crossfire automitve clear on top.. ..

 

[dr gary turner]

The single stage system with PPG provides a finish that will last for years. Also using it in the tank and motor compartment seals the tank and motor compartment against nitro and oil. The finish lasts for years. Doc

 

[Bill Gibson]

The single stage system with PPG provides a finish that will last for years. Also using it in the tank and motor compartment seals the tank and motor compartment against nitro and oil. The finish lasts for years. Doc

I use Dupont Imron paints and 500s clear and if there is a need to polish the top coat, i do the same as Miss Hydro..1500 wet and 3m fine polish..just gotta remember that the more that you lean on the finish to make it perfect shiny, the more material you are removing..yep, more than once, i went a little too far!

 

[Don Ferrette]

Since we are talking about painting and clear coats, I would like to get your methodolgy and what materials you use to POLISH the clear coat. I use PPG single stage paint with PPG clear. PPG single stage painted on an epoxy sealed motor compartment and tank area followed with PPG clear is the ONLY thing I have found that will stand up to 60-65% nitro. I have filled the tank area with fuel, inadvertantly, and not lifted the paint.DOC

If you are shooting PPG Concept single stage (not basecoat/clearcoat) the colors can also be wet sanded and polished just like the clear and really do not need to be clearcoated (I personally use PPG 2021 clear when needed like to cover graphics on a scale hull). After a 48 hour dry time following the last coat of color or clear I begin the wet sanding process. Start with 1000, then 1500 and finishing with 2000 rinsing thoroughly with water and cleaning with PPG DX330 between each round of sanding. Keep in mind here, as previously mentioned, you are removing product with each round of sanding so go easy (no "heavy hands") and be extra careful on corners and/or sharp edges. After the 2000 clean well with warm lightly soapy water ( I prefer mild dishwashing liquid) let dry completely followed by a very thorough cleaning and wipe down with DX330. I then begin the buffing process with 3-M Finesse-It, typically 2 rounds of hand buffing (far safer than using a buffer) finished off by 2-3 coats of a top notch wax also hand applied should yield the desired results. B)

And BTW- make sure any and all holes needed including drain holes are drilled and sealed BEFORE you start painting. Seen more than a few nice paint jobs ruined by nitro and oils wicking into the end grain of the wood exposed by drilling and lifting even the best of paints.

 

[misshydro]

Since we are talking about painting and clear coats, I would like to get your methodolgy and what materials you use to POLISH the clear coat. I use PPG single stage paint with PPG clear. PPG single stage painted on an epoxy sealed motor compartment and tank area followed with PPG clear is the ONLY thing I have found that will stand up to 60-65% nitro. I have filled the tank area with fuel, inadvertantly, and not lifted the paint.DOC

If you are shooting PPG Concept single stage (not basecoat/clearcoat) the colors can also be wet sanded and polished just like the clear and really do not need to be clearcoated (I personally use PPG 2021 clear when needed like to cover graphics on a scale hull). After a 48 hour dry time following the last coat of color or clear I begin the wet sanding process. Start with 1000, then 1500 and finishing with 2000 rinsing thoroughly with water and cleaning with PPG DX330 between each round of sanding. Keep in mind here, as previously mentioned, you are removing product with each round of sanding so go easy (no "heavy hands") and be extra careful on corners and/or sharp edges. After the 2000 clean well with warm lightly soapy water ( I prefer mild dishwashing liquid) let dry completely followed by a very thorough cleaning and wipe down with DX330. I then begin the buffing process with 3-M Finesse-It, typically 2 rounds of hand buffing (far safer than using a buffer) finished off by 2-3 coats of a top notch wax also hand applied should yield the desired results. B)

And BTW- make sure any and all holes needed including drain holes are drilled and sealed BEFORE you start painting. Seen more than a few nice paint jobs ruined by nitro and oils wicking into the end grain of the wood exposed by drilling and lifting even the best of paints.

There reson why you put clear into the last two coats of your paint job, is the help on the UV protection/color fading and higher gloss and help buff better/easyer too...My boyfriend and afew guys started this in PA in the 90's.. Paint reps didnt like it until they tryed it out and found out that these guys were on to somthing and started to recondmend that......They started that with PPG DAU and then concept paints....Now he's doing that to PPG shopline too.....now on buffing...2 rounds of hand rubbing?? Man work smarter then work harder ,,as the saying goes..You dont wax until 90 days..that how long it takes for paint to completely cure/dryout......then wax it...or other wise you can ruin a nice paint job by waxing early...

 

[Don Ferrette]

You dont wax until 90 days..that how long it takes for paint to completely cure/dryout......then wax it...or other wise you can ruin a nice paint job by waxing early...

Got to disagree with you on that one. I use PPG DFX11 Supercharger for the catalyst with the Concept DCC paints and clears. DFX11cures from the top down and is dust free in 10 minutes @ 70 degrees (sure makes it nice when you don't have a spray booth to work with). Been doing it this way for years, haven't ruined one yet.

 

[misshydro]

You dont wax until 90 days..that how long it takes for paint to completely cure/dryout......then wax it...or other wise you can ruin a nice paint job by waxing early...

Got to disagree with you on that one. I use PPG DFX11 Supercharger for the catalyst with the Concept DCC paints and clears. DFX11cures from the top down and is dust free in 10 minutes @ 70 degrees (sure makes it nice when you don't have a spray booth to work with). Been doing it this way for years, haven't ruined one yet.

Not what we were told from PPG paint school and paint clinks...you slow the paint cure time...one guy waxed his red paint job and it turned it to pink and other one with the clear turned milky...another one had solvet bubbles ...you need to let paint completey dryout,need to let all the solvent excape..Thats why most to all bodyshops say dont wax your car for 90days...you use miguier#7 hand glaze to keep your finish looking nice then after90 days then wax it...I use the wax shop hand glaze...

 

[John Knight]

You dont wax until 90 days..that how long it takes for paint to completely cure/dryout......then wax it...or other wise you can ruin a nice paint job by waxing early...

Got to disagree with you on that one. I use PPG DFX11 Supercharger for the catalyst with the Concept DCC paints and clears. DFX11cures from the top down and is dust free in 10 minutes @ 70 degrees (sure makes it nice when you don't have a spray booth to work with). Been doing it this way for years, haven't ruined one yet.

Not what we were told from PPG paint school and paint clinks...you slow the paint cure time...one guy waxed his red paint job and it turned it to pink and other one with the clear turned milky...another one had solvet bubbles ...you need to let paint completey dryout,need to let all the solvent excape..Thats why most to all bodyshops say dont wax your car for 90days...you use miguier#7 hand glaze to keep your finish looking nice then after90 days then wax it...I use the wax shop hand glaze...

Nessa,

If you have seen any of Don's boats you would find that they are masterpieces, equal to a Picasso. And he has done many of them. He just never has the time for doing any for me but I understand it is a labor or love and takes a lot of time of do it. I do not question or quibble with him on any painting projects he has done. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. And many of the other racers who have seen his boats will agree in a skinny minute.

 

[misshydro]

I've

You dont wax until 90 days..that how long it takes for paint to completely cure/dryout......then wax it...or other wise you can ruin a nice paint job by waxing early...

Got to disagree with you on that one. I use PPG DFX11 Supercharger for the catalyst with the Concept DCC paints and clears. DFX11cures from the top down and is dust free in 10 minutes @ 70 degrees (sure makes it nice when you don't have a spray booth to work with). Been doing it this way for years, haven't ruined one yet.

Not what we were told from PPG paint school and paint clinks...you slow the paint cure time...one guy waxed his red paint job and it turned it to pink and other one with the clear turned milky...another one had solvet bubbles ...you need to let paint completey dryout,need to let all the solvent excape..Thats why most to all bodyshops say dont wax your car for 90days...you use miguier#7 hand glaze to keep your finish looking nice then after90 days then wax it...I use the wax shop hand glaze...

Nessa,

If you have seen any of Don's boats you would find that they are masterpieces, equal to a Picasso. And he has done many of them. He just never has the time for doing any for me but I understand it is a labor or love and takes a lot of time of do it. I do not question or quibble with him on any painting projects he has done. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. And many of the other racers who have seen his boats will agree in a skinny minute.

I've been paint for sometime too ,my boyfriend longer...Ask Ron Olson&Dan Kramer about my boats.they are a work of art too...They saw them at fortwayne R/C shows...I'm not argueing about his work... Just we were tought in PPG and paint semards not to wax anything before 90days.. Go ask any bodyshops and most to all will tell you the samthing..We, as me&Joe have saw bad results from waxing stuff to early..

 

[misshydro]

Form what I found infro 30-90 day.. you can wax a car wright away from the factroy because they bake the cars 300 degreese with special baking booths.. here some infro from migures...My link..it will say link broken,clic the one that shows on googles and it will take you there on infro..forgot Don have you ever heard of color tinting? That what we do with the single stage and mix clear to it on the last few coats.. Thats what PPG sudjested for us painter to do with single stage painting..add 50/50 color and clear mixed and on the last coat of paint we mix 75%clear to 25%color...but some of us paint stuff differently from others...

 

[Dan Kramer]

Form what I found infro 30-90 day.. you can wax a car wright away from the factroy because they bake the cars 300 degreese with special baking booths.. here some infro from migures...My link..it will say link broken,clic the one that shows on googles and it will take you there on infro..forgot Don have you ever heard of color tinting? That what we do with the single stage and mix clear to it on the last few coats.. Thats what PPG sudjested for us painter to do with single stage painting..add 50/50 color and clear mixed and on the last coat of paint we mix 75%clear to 25%color...but some of us paint stuff differently from others...

all these manafacture reps tell you what NOT to do , but then they also tell you what is also being done in the field. this is for warranty purposes. sometimes they alter their recomendations.

not adhearing exactly to their recomendations voids all warranty claims.

what we do on our boats,(and i also do it) varies from what i do on customers cars and trucks. i have waxed mine sooner, knowing i shouldnt , but there is not a warranty issue that will surface. i have also put color in clear, again, not on customers cars. the "pinking" out of the red signals to me, too much color and not enough clear and probabaly not activated correctly. these new paints are analyzed by chemists and they can tell you exactly what you did,

 

[tmunn]

I just started paining last winter and had very good luck with KlassKote using their white primer and yellow color and diid not clear it.50-65% does not bother it.I whished they mixed neon colors.

I like the 1:1:1 mixing ratios of the Klasskote ans cleanup with cheap reducer.

I am going to explore anothe product that a member told me about that he likes.

Endura i think it is called.My notes are at work...

 

[misshydro]

Form what I found infro 30-90 day.. you can wax a car wright away from the factroy because they bake the cars 300 degreese with special baking booths.. here some infro from migures...My link..it will say link broken,clic the one that shows on googles and it will take you there on infro..forgot Don have you ever heard of color tinting? That what we do with the single stage and mix clear to it on the last few coats.. Thats what PPG sudjested for us painter to do with single stage painting..add 50/50 color and clear mixed and on the last coat of paint we mix 75%clear to 25%color...but some of us paint stuff differently from others...

all these manafacture reps tell you what NOT to do , but then they also tell you what is also being done in the field. this is for warranty purposes. sometimes they alter their recomendations.

not adhearing exactly to their recomendations voids all warranty claims.

what we do on our boats,(and i also do it) varies from what i do on customers cars and trucks. i have waxed mine sooner, knowing i shouldnt , but there is not a warranty issue that will surface. i have also put color in clear, again, not on customers cars. the "pinking" out of the red signals to me, too much color and not enough clear and probabaly not activated correctly. these new paints are analyzed by chemists and they can tell you exactly what you did,

the red didnt happen to us.. to sombody me&joe knows.. the person did find out what happend and it was on a customer car too.. it was from waxing to soon..trapping the solvents to soon will do some funny things too paints...we do the samething as in painting prosses as we do with customers cars......But in smaller scales....but with customers stuff you want to try to follow the paint complany recomendations..that away if somthing happends to a customers paint job and you done it corectly ,your not doing a freebie repaint...I never had a paint proublem or comebacks as of yet.... Joe had one,and that was his big monster dodge truck....it ended up being PPG falts and gave joe paint to repaint his truck.... in the early 90's Dupont had troubles with there clears pealinng off...Ok if you really want to fuel proof the inside of your boats,try por15 fuel tank sealer....its silver and it can be brushed on.. too....

 

[dr gary turner]

You dont wax until 90 days..that how long it takes for paint to completely cure/dryout......then wax it...or other wise you can ruin a nice paint job by waxing early...

Got to disagree with you on that one. I use PPG DFX11 Supercharger for the catalyst with the Concept DCC paints and clears. DFX11cures from the top down and is dust free in 10 minutes @ 70 degrees (sure makes it nice when you don't have a spray booth to work with). Been doing it this way for years, haven't ruined one yet.

Don I was interested in your DFX11. I use DCX61. I went to my PPG store and talked to a PPG rep and he said that the DFX11 can produce problems by drying TOO fast on the surface and trapping the solvent in the deeper layers of the paint. This can produce a softness in the lowerer layer of the paint and can bubble then when in the heat and give adhesion problems. Also the outer surface sometimes dries too much and other colors or paint applied would not bond well because the solvent in the second layer actually would "bounce" off of the first layer and therefore not bond as well.

I also asked about your rubbing compound. He said that they did not sell much of it becasue it did not give a high gloss. Your compound was used more in doing spot repair work and that the finish with your compound would tend to blend in with the existing finish of the car.

I have used 3M ultrafinish se. It actually has a 3 step process and basically goes from a !000 grit to a 3000 grit.

The bottom line painting is an ART with APPLIED science and therefore there are many good and succeful ways to achieve the same goal. Doc .

 

[Don Ferrette]

You dont wax until 90 days..that how long it takes for paint to completely cure/dryout......then wax it...or other wise you can ruin a nice paint job by waxing early...

Got to disagree with you on that one. I use PPG DFX11 Supercharger for the catalyst with the Concept DCC paints and clears. DFX11cures from the top down and is dust free in 10 minutes @ 70 degrees (sure makes it nice when you don't have a spray booth to work with). Been doing it this way for years, haven't ruined one yet.

Don I was interested in your DFX11. I use DCX61. I went to my PPG store and talked to a PPG rep and he said that the DFX11 can produce problems by drying TOO fast on the surface and trapping the solvent in the deeper layers of the paint. This can produce a softness in the lowerer layer of the paint and can bubble then when in the heat and give adhesion problems. Also the outer surface sometimes dries too much and other colors or paint applied would not bond well because the solvent in the second layer actually would "bounce" off of the first layer and therefore not bond as well.

I also asked about your rubbing compound. He said that they did not sell much of it becasue it did not give a high gloss. Your compound was used more in doing spot repair work and that the finish with your compound would tend to blend in with the existing finish of the car.

I have used 3M ultrafinish se. It actually has a 3 step process and basically goes from a !000 grit to a 3000 grit.

The bottom line painting is an ART with APPLIED science and therefore there are many good and succeful ways to achieve the same goal. Doc .

Interesting he would say that. I've been using it ever since I switched from the DAU series of paints over to DCC with no issues. Even when I shot DAU colors I used the matching accelerator/catalyst set up for those as well. The only time I even concern myself with it's drying times is when I'm clearcoating a scale, I'll typically wait 20 minutes between coats to make sure the reducer (I use DT870) has fully gassed off so it doesn't trap micro bubbles in the layers of clear that can be opened up when wet sanding and buffing. If that happens they will show up as tiny little white dots when the polish trapped in the micro bubble hole dries and there is no getting it out either other than sanding off the clear and re-applying. I got that advice from a guy who's painted award winning show cars for over 30 years. As for the 3M Finesse It ... well you've seen my scale boats, did they ever look not shiny enough to you? I learned a long time ago that just because someone works at a place that sells you a product or even represents said product that doesn't mean they always have the right information to give you. Granted, most of the time it's good info but It's not gospel as they only know what they've been told ..... right, wrong or otherwise.

 

[dave roach]

I have been using PPG paints with the DCX61 for 15 years and haven't had any problems and the next day you and sand it and rub it with no problems.

Dave Roach

 

[Alexander King]

OK I have heard some of you have used min wax polyurethane spray bombs which one the black can or the brown? also will the Polyurethane go over epoxy aka finish resin ok? one last thing can epoxy paint or lacquer go over the polyurethane?

Thanks just want to look at the options

 

[misshydro]

OK I have heard some of you have used min wax polyurethane spray bombs which one the black can or the brown? also will the Polyurethane go over epoxy aka finish resin ok? one last thing can epoxy paint or lacquer go over the polyurethane?

Thanks just want to look at the options

min wax polyurethane spray boom or brush clear isnt fuel proof.. Had a guy on RCU done testing on it and came up to no good=fuel will get polyurethane..if your spraying over polyurethane with lacqure or any other paints,,you better prime it first..because polyurethane doesnt have hardner/actvator in it and thats why fuel will harm them....

 

[HOTWATER]

Ok....How about using SprayMax 2K Urethane (it is a 2 part system) over West Systems finishing resin?

-Kent