Fast Electrics in D12 for 2010?

[Chilli]

Hey guys. My name is Mike Chirillo (AKA Chilli-too many Mikes inD12) . I ran my Fast electric mono and my son ran his FE Cat at a few D12 events this past year. We both ran novice class and John will be staying there for another year or two. But I am looking for something more challangeing in 2010. I have a few other guys interested in running FE's next year, but I'm not quite sure how much participation we are going to have. Most will be new IMPBA members and first time racers and will probably start off doing maybe one or two district races. I would like to attend four.

So I'm kicking ideas around on what to ask the district at their winter meeting so that we can include Fast Electrics that want to race in the district. One thing I am seeking is to ask the district clubs to list one or two FE classes in their race fliers next year to attract FE racers from the area. The lack of ANY FE classes in race fliers discourages potential IMPBA members as they assume the district does not support fast electrics (even though it's in the districts mission statement). Another possibility is to integrate a few of the nitro and FE classes together. But before I entertain that idea, I want to ask all the D12 nitro racers how you would feel about the posibility of running Fast Electrics with some of the nitro classes. Specificaly running the P-class electric boats with the B-class nitro boats in mono, hydro and perhaps outboard tunnel. This is being done in some places. I don't want to muscle in on you guys. I dont want to screw with the High Points Championship and I want to make as little impact as possible. Just looking for a little piece of the D12 pie. If the majority of you guys say I'm out of my mind, I will drop the subject.

Let me know your thoughts, questions, concerns.

Lastly, I want to thank all the great people in the Capitol RC club and in D12 that I have met over the last year. What a great bunch of people!!! Even though my son and I were the only Fast Electrics in the district, you guys treated us well and always made us feel like part of the gang! I also had a great time running with the nitro guys and even a few gas boats at the Delmarva Fun Run a few weeks ago.

Chilli

 

[ww29]

i race in d12.i would race in a LSH class. i would race in a fe rigger or fe hydro class

 

[moparbarn]

mike, i enjoyed meeting you & your son this year, & pitting for him. i would welcome fe boats in nitro class's. with the amount of class's we have now, more added to give fe's their own heats might be stretching time constraints a little. when fe participation reaches levels that warrant their own heats, then we will have to figure out how to make time. fe boats are getting faster all the time, us nitro guys will just have to bring our "A" game B) . look foward to seeing you guys next season, heck maybe this year, if the weather holds up....

 

[Chilli]

Well I didnt expect to recruit anyone with this thread but that is awesome. I have spoken to several nitro racers this past year who run electric planes and helo's that said they wouldnt mind running a FE boat but there was no one to race. Would love to race with you William. We have a few guys intested in running smaller riggers and I am considering building a FE Spec rigger which uses the motor and ESC from a RTR Aquacraft UL-1. This would be a great low cost class that would be comparable in performance to .21 nitro riggers.

Robin, it was great meeting you, your son and your daughter in law this year. I hope your son is adjusting well to all the changes in his life the past few months! Thanks for pitting for John....except for that Dale Earnhart Senior move you taught him.(LOL!!!!) That was my only DNF in the 9 heats I ran this season. You are right about the number of classes we run in district races. In the two races I attended this year, we were only able to complete 3 heats. On the other hand, I feel like I'm stepping on peoples toes when suggesting we possibly combine FE classes with well established classes. So far, everyone I have met has been very supportive so we'll see what happens.

 

[ww29]

mike everyone that races is very helpful and friendly.everyone goes out of there way to help one way or another.it makes it a good setting with so many people we have that help everyone.i always take a extra tunnel with me incase someone wants to race.especially Don Ferrette he helped me alot. Welcome aboard mike.look forward to racing u.

 

[Don Ferrette]

We'll have to visit this at the 2010 District 12 meeting that will most likely be in early February. While we always want to encourage letting everyone race we are getting crushed with the number of classes we are already up to now and still be able to run 4 rounds at a 2 day race. We'll figure something out, we always do one way or another. B)

 

[Andy Brown]

R/C boating is getting speard very wide and very thin. Not only is it difficult for clubs, it is diffcult for manufactures and suppliers. While the number of boaters may be about the same as many years past, the types of boats/power raced are many more. We have Gas races, Electric races, Nitro races....so instead of a company like Picco producing a .45 engine and supplying the needs of a large percentage of the boaters with that one engine,

(as they did many years ago) now only a few use the engine. Kinda hard to justify making them and they become expensive.

At the same time it is hard for a culb to justify running a class when only 3 or 4 boats show up.

Perhaps in the case of racing, the classes could be set by boat weight. Something like a 5 lb. class 8 lb class, 12 lb. class, 16 lb class. Any type of power. I know thats not the perfect situation. If a guy has has a 13 lb gas rigger and runs against a 14 lb twin nitro rigger...I mean the twin might get whooped hahaha

Really!! Think about it! It's better to have a race than no race.

I think a 4 lb elecric rigger and a 4 lb .21 nitro would be an even match?

Maybe a 3 lb. class for .12 nito and electric in that weight range....or Rubberband power if that turns your crank!

This could be great for smaller Distric and club races. For big races and Nationals the same old classes work just fine.

 

[moparbarn]

andy, your class's by weight has merit, except for 1 thing. we have kentley porter in d-12. you could make him run a 13 lb .12 rigger, & he would spank our butts . seriously, that idea is worth some discussion, imo.

 

[Doug Smock]

I hope things work out for you guys.

Good luck!

Doug

 

[Chilli]

Don, Thanks for your consideration. Hopefully most of the D12 racers will see this thread over the next few months and we will continue to get some good input so the district can make a well informed decision at the winter meeting..... with minimal uproar. If there is one thing I have learned over the last year, it's how much RC boaters despise rule changes.

Thanks for all your support over the past year Doug!!! Once I learn how to run with the big boys, I plan on going down to pay D13 a visit. I've been wanting to take the family to the Georgia Aquarium. What a coincidence it would be if we just happen to be down there during the Atlanta Grand Prix.

 

[D. Newland]

R/C boating is getting speard very wide and very thin. Not only is it difficult for clubs, it is diffcult for manufactures and suppliers. While the number of boaters may be about the same as many years past, the types of boats/power raced are many more. We have Gas races, Electric races, Nitro races....so instead of a company like Picco producing a .45 engine and supplying the needs of a large percentage of the boaters with that one engine,

(as they did many years ago) now only a few use the engine. Kinda hard to justify making them and they become expensive.

At the same time it is hard for a culb to justify running a class when only 3 or 4 boats show up.

Perhaps in the case of racing, the classes could be set by boat weight. Something like a 5 lb. class 8 lb class, 12 lb. class, 16 lb class. Any type of power. I know thats not the perfect situation. If a guy has has a 13 lb gas rigger and runs against a 14 lb twin nitro rigger...I mean the twin might get whooped hahaha

Really!! Think about it! It's better to have a race than no race.

I think a 4 lb elecric rigger and a 4 lb .21 nitro would be an even match?

Maybe a 3 lb. class for .12 nito and electric in that weight range....or Rubberband power if that turns your crank!

This could be great for smaller Distric and club races. For big races and Nationals the same old classes work just fine.

Is 4 lb's about average for a .21 rigger?

The '09 NAMBA Gas Nat's ran a FE "spec" rigger class that utilized riggers that were approximately 29" long and powered by the Aquacraft RTR UL-1 motor and speed control. 4S Lipo battery, and I bet the average weight of those riggers fell around 5 lbs. Averaged 1000 watts, are about 1.5 hp. The best heat time was 1:24...2 seconds better than the NAMBA A hydro. all in all, the average heat times were very similar.

Also at this race, FE P mono ran. Up to 34" hull and 4S lipos. No limit on motor. .21 mono times were a bit better, but again the average heat times looked really comparable.

I've also seen the same "spec" powered FE tunnels have similar times as .21 stock tunnels as well.

Whatever you guys do, please keep us posted!

 

[John Knight]

R/C boating is getting speard very wide and very thin. Not only is it difficult for clubs, it is diffcult for manufactures and suppliers. While the number of boaters may be about the same as many years past, the types of boats/power raced are many more. We have Gas races, Electric races, Nitro races....so instead of a company like Picco producing a .45 engine and supplying the needs of a large percentage of the boaters with that one engine,

(as they did many years ago) now only a few use the engine. Kinda hard to justify making them and they become expensive.

At the same time it is hard for a culb to justify running a class when only 3 or 4 boats show up.

Perhaps in the case of racing, the classes could be set by boat weight. Something like a 5 lb. class 8 lb class, 12 lb. class, 16 lb class. Any type of power. I know thats not the perfect situation. If a guy has has a 13 lb gas rigger and runs against a 14 lb twin nitro rigger...I mean the twin might get whooped hahaha

Really!! Think about it! It's better to have a race than no race.

I think a 4 lb elecric rigger and a 4 lb .21 nitro would be an even match?

Maybe a 3 lb. class for .12 nito and electric in that weight range....or Rubberband power if that turns your crank!

This could be great for smaller Distric and club races. For big races and Nationals the same old classes work just fine.

Is 4 lb's about average for a .21 rigger?

The '09 NAMBA Gas Nat's ran a FE "spec" rigger class that utilized riggers that were approximately 29" long and powered by the Aquacraft RTR UL-1 motor and speed control. 4S Lipo battery, and I bet the average weight of those riggers fell around 5 lbs. Averaged 1000 watts, are about 1.5 hp. The best heat time was 1:24...2 seconds better than the NAMBA A hydro. all in all, the average heat times were very similar.

Also at this race, FE P mono ran. Up to 34" hull and 4S lipos. No limit on motor. .21 mono times were a bit better, but again the average heat times looked really comparable.

I've also seen the same "spec" powered FE tunnels have similar times as .21 stock tunnels as well.

Whatever you guys do, please keep us posted!

4 lbs is a standard heat racing weight for a 20 nitro rigger. Some a little less and some a little more but 4 lbs just about the average weight. The closer the FE guys can get a FE rigger to be very close in comparison to a nitro rigger the more acceptable it will become. True of the tunnels as well. There must be a level playing field if you want to run directly against them.

 

[Andy Brown]

R/C boating is getting speard very wide and very thin. Not only is it difficult for clubs, it is diffcult for manufactures and suppliers. While the number of boaters may be about the same as many years past, the types of boats/power raced are many more. We have Gas races, Electric races, Nitro races....so instead of a company like Picco producing a .45 engine and supplying the needs of a large percentage of the boaters with that one engine,

(as they did many years ago) now only a few use the engine. Kinda hard to justify making them and they become expensive.

At the same time it is hard for a culb to justify running a class when only 3 or 4 boats show up.

Perhaps in the case of racing, the classes could be set by boat weight. Something like a 5 lb. class 8 lb class, 12 lb. class, 16 lb class. Any type of power. I know thats not the perfect situation. If a guy has has a 13 lb gas rigger and runs against a 14 lb twin nitro rigger...I mean the twin might get whooped hahaha

Really!! Think about it! It's better to have a race than no race.

I think a 4 lb elecric rigger and a 4 lb .21 nitro would be an even match?

Maybe a 3 lb. class for .12 nito and electric in that weight range....or Rubberband power if that turns your crank!

This could be great for smaller Distric and club races. For big races and Nationals the same old classes work just fine.

Is 4 lb's about average for a .21 rigger?

The '09 NAMBA Gas Nat's ran a FE "spec" rigger class that utilized riggers that were approximately 29" long and powered by the Aquacraft RTR UL-1 motor and speed control. 4S Lipo battery, and I bet the average weight of those riggers fell around 5 lbs. Averaged 1000 watts, are about 1.5 hp. The best heat time was 1:24...2 seconds better than the NAMBA A hydro. all in all, the average heat times were very similar.

Also at this race, FE P mono ran. Up to 34" hull and 4S lipos. No limit on motor. .21 mono times were a bit better, but again the average heat times looked really comparable.

I've also seen the same "spec" powered FE tunnels have similar times as .21 stock tunnels as well.

Whatever you guys do, please keep us posted!

4 lbs is a standard heat racing weight for a 20 nitro rigger. Some a little less and some a little more but 4 lbs just about the average weight. The closer the FE guys can get a FE rigger to be very close in comparison to a nitro rigger the more acceptable it will become. True of the tunnels as well. There must be a level playing field if you want to run directly against them.

A 5 lb electric rigger that could run nearly as quick as a 4 lb. .21 nitro would win a Bunch of races. But than again a 4.5 lb. nitro rigger with a Novarossi .28 in it would be really interesting. Class by wieght opens up lots of power options.

Doug Twaits Jr. ran his electric powered 67SGX in Open class at the 09 IMPBA Internats. He won all heats except one and that one heat the motor broke just short of the finish line while in the lead. He placed 2nd overall. I'm guessing it's a 10 lb. boat. He also holds the current NAMBA heat race record with that boat and it is faster than any of the nitro heat race records.

 

[raptor347]

At our club races last season, we ran the FE spec tunnels against the .21 boats (mods and stocks mixed together) in an open tunnel class. Performance is pretty even between the 21 stock and FE boats. The mod boats are a bit quicker, but not as consistant.

The spec riggers should build out at about 4.25 pounds if you're being careful. My lightest composite boat was 3lb 12oz. The average spec rigger runs about the same speed as the average .21 rigger. The fastest .21 boat will have a little top end on the fastest spec boat, the FE boat will have an edge in reliability.

The biggest consideration is that FE boats will drive away from on course mishaps that will kill a nitro boat. Once we changed the judging so that anything that would stop a nitro boat would cause the FE boat to be called dead (even though it could continue racing) the points really leveled out.

The spec power systems are on par with a .21 nitro boat. An open motor P power system is on par with a .45 nitro even though we run smaller boats.

My .02

 

[Chilli]

Very good info and advice guys. I appreciate the input. I have been warned numerous times that P power can have an advantage over .21 nitro and that the quickest way to alienate yourself would be to dominate the nitro guys. We do have some bad ass nitro drivers in D12 but if there is any significant performance advantage in P-mono, I plan on proping down and will ask fellow FE racers to do so. If that is not acceptable to the district, you could bump us up to open nitro mono. I don't mind being called a dead boat if the boat comes to a stop during a race. As long as I can pull out of harms way when cleared by the CD.

That being said, if the route the district wants to take would be to combine classes as you guys have recommended, my proposal to the district will probably be to ask for two combined classes: B-mono/P-mono and B-hydro/P-Spec Hydro. P-spec being restricted to run only the Aquacraft UL-1, SV27 or Proboat Blackjack 26 motor. We will stay out of the tunnel class. I'll also be requesting that the district verify that FE's are included in the RTR category at all district races.

Just a reminder, we are realistically looking at running only two or three boats at two or three district races next year. Again, I welcome all comments and input.

Peace!

Chilli

 

[Tim Kish]

D-1 tried this a couple years ago with a mix of scale nitro and FE , the speeds were very much the same but the FE did have a number of advantages over the nitro boats that made this kind of racing more for fun than anything else.

Tim K

 

[James E Beasley]

My P Spec FE Tunnel gets real lonely sitting on the shelf 11 out of 12 months a year. Only time we run that class is in a non-points "D12 area" race at the World Champs. I would run mine for sure if a class was advertised. I have a UL-1 also. More is better, James Beasley

 

[Chilli]

James, I don't want ask too much of the district because I already feel as if I'm being a royal PITA. But lets just say I would be happy to build and race a P-spec tunnel boat if the opportunity presented itself. That's very cool that you already have one sitting on the shelf.

FYI- There is a very good possibility you will see a few FE guys join the ODMBA club over the winter.

 

[bsmtboy2]

I think you have a valid situation here. We should make the changes on the flyers to include the FE guys and let'em run. This promotes good sportsmanship,better racing,and more competition to deal with on race day. We are glad to have had you at our race this year and was amazed at how you finished among the nitro boats. IF WE LIST THEM,THEY WILL COME.................

 

[ww29]

what about if electric guys running with nitro in same class but they get there own set of seperate points?