Another Lower Unit Option?

[Brandon Atwell]

I somewhat suspect the shaft itself is just too long as well, after testing out the OS shaft in it again. I think a standard K&B shaft may be the answer.

 

[Greg Schweers]

If you put this drive on a G 30 just remember the hinge pin bracket is not offset. The mounting bracket ends up too high on the transit

 

[Greg Schweers]

 

[Brandon Atwell]

Ah, now I see what you are saying Greg. I didn’t understand you the first time.
It will be going on a Lynx for testing with a .21 nitro unit. Luckily the mount I run now on my lawless is setup the same way so the height is negligible.
Have you ran it yet? How do you like it so far?

 

[RobertDoak]

Wow...nice unit

 

[Brandon Atwell]

Replace the shaft and assembly and it’s a very nice piece. I am impressed, especially considering cost. I’m only worried about how the bullet will affect attitude of the boat. If it handles poorly there is more than enough meat there to get rid of it though.

 

[topfuel443]

Did it come with that transom backing plate or is that one of mine?

 

[Brandon Atwell]

It came with that one, but one of your OS plates would fit

 

[LawlessMan]

While bearing a VERY strong resemblence to my drive, designed in 1996 and made ONLY by my shop since then, I can see clearly that it is not one of mine. It literally looks like someone sat down with one of mine and traced the outline. However, one major difference is mine is made in two halves, this one is not, and mine does not have the pointy bullet extension that can catch weeds and other material while running. Also, and very critically, the design of the steering arm, while being a prettty good copy, is going to cause problems with the steering linkage because it advances its' point of rotation ahead of the pivot point of the drive. This critical detail means that the steering linkage will not respond equally in a turning situation. One side will aways be "slack" while the opposite side will be "strained" regardless whether solid rods or cables are being used. This is why the design of the Lawless steering arm (Thanks to Wally Marsh,BTW) has the pivot point directly over the pivot of the drive. The drive pictured would probably work best with a single, solid pushrod that would not bend. Just my 2 cents based on making a professional-quality racing drive that has set many world records for over 25 years. The current design of the Lawless drive allows for reasonable prop clearance up to a diameter of about 1.75 inches. If a larger prop is required, an upward-offset cavitation plate is available for clearance for props up to as much as 2", and yes, I could go higher. Information only, I am not selling them here, you'll have to call or e-mail me.

 

[LawlessMan]

On further examination of the photos, I realized that it looks like whoever made this also permanently incorporated my removeable adapter for the OS (tm) motor, which I just heard is now being offered at a sweet price of something above $600. In case you can't get an OS motor, whaddaya' gonna do with this drive. OK, send it to me and I'll mill off all that excess material and make it fit my standard mounting plate, or my FE adapter. This drive will be great as long as OS (tm) propshafts are available, but if they're selling the motor for $600, how much are they going to get for the propshaft? Just sayin'. One last little detail I noticed is that the center part of the mount, that is, the part the pivot pin goes through, appears to be centered vertically, where mine is offset, allowing a greater range of vertical adjustment by simply turning it upside down. Just one more inconsistency.

 

[Alan Elzer]

Came in the mail yesterday, haven’t had time to fully assemble yet but I’ll post pics. Overall a very nice piece! The unit’s swivel pin is bushed, so that’s nice to be able to easily replace that once it gets some miles on it.
I am not a fan of the design to hold the pin it, as it is only one set screw. I will probably tap the bottom side for a 4-40 and washer to be on the safe side.
The unit honestly looks to be a blend of features from both the O.S. (Assembly design, liner removal design) and lawless (overall shape, steering arm design, engine plate mount). The bullet design and skeg shape look to be the most original concepts of the unit as a whole. I do like how sharp the leading edge of the bend is and the skeg. The included mount and mounting plate look to matchup to O.S. Holes and should give enough setback.
Hopefully can do some testing soon to see how the bullet affects boat attitude but very pleased so far.
Still would recommend a lawless to anyone looking for a proven setup, but I definitely think this would be worth a shot to anyone ready to test!

Who makes this lower unit

 

[Brandon Atwell]

Hey Alan,
It’s a TFL unit!

Agreed Fred, that’s why I have pointed out the similarities a lot in my posts as well as still recommending your unit as my choice of lower ends. Very hard to beat the lawless track record, we've ran them for nearly 20 years now and don’t see that stopping anytime soon.
It is nice to have competition in any market though, as we see with OS hiking prices to $659 being that they are now the “sole” manufacturer of outboards. The fact it is a pretty blatant copy of your unit, with flares from OS and stumpfab transom plate is a bit disheartening when looking at the entire package though.
I hope that more engines/drives eventually pop up, but realistically with the current world situation I don’t see that happening. This brings us back to the conversion kit for car engines you have developed with Rod. A great answer to an issue that came much quicker than I believe anyone anticipated. Continued efforts from multiple manufacturers will be needed to keep this sect of the hobby alive. At the moment, the easiest answer to tunnels is electric power.
Through threads like this, showcasing new/ unproven products, I hope to garner some new interest and make people get there wheels turning about the possibility of unorthodox or different options to fit their needs.

 

[properchopper]

I bought an angle drive some years ago. A very nice piece of machine work but skeg is too short. Remember the difference when K&B went from the original 3.5 small skeg to the larger one. Short skeg doesn't handle well.
Mic

I picked up an angle drive a long time ago. Added some length to the fin. Boat handled well but at the time (this was my third P-Ltd OPC) I still hadn't got the hang of tuning. This one split in two when I accidently drove it into the turn one death buoy at Legg Lake.

 

[Wasted wages]

Nice looking boat!!!

I know it's a small point for a racing hull, but I wish more boaters that take so much time to make an outstanding looking boat, would use the outboard cowling for the motors.

It's kinda like the 1/8 scale boats versus a rigger when it comes to looks. Scales usually
get as close to real life as they can in the looks dept.

Riggers,, well what can you say... they are fast.
But as far as looks, non boaters really can't relate to them as far as being a "boat"...

So I guess we should take every opportunity to make all of our hulls look as realistic as possible.. for the benefit of the hobby...

Just a fleeting thought... carry on !!

 

[LawlessMan]

I know it's a small point for a racing hull, but I wish more boaters that take so much time to make an outstanding looking boat, would use the outboard cowling for the motors.

I offer this opinion only as my personal viewpoint. I don't know if I speak for others, but I think if you want a scale boat, by all means, build a scale boat. Outboard motors, even water cooled ones still depend on air circulation to help cool them. If you enclose the motor in a cowl, it inhibits the cooling flow of air and encourages overheating. The general design of tunnels doesn't really lend itself to good airflow around the engine, so the thought of wrapping another air dam around it just doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me..

 

[LawlessMan]

Hey Alan,
It’s a TFL unit!

Agreed Fred, that’s why I have pointed out the similarities a lot in my posts as well as still recommending your unit as my choice of lower ends. Very hard to beat the lawless track record, we've ran them for nearly 20 years now and don’t see that stopping anytime soon.
It is nice to have competition in any market though, as we see with OS hiking prices to $659 being that they are now the “sole” manufacturer of outboards. The fact it is a pretty blatant copy of your unit, with flares from OS and stumpfab transom plate is a bit disheartening when looking at the entire package though.
I hope that more engines/drives eventually pop up, but realistically with the current world situation I don’t see that happening. This brings us back to the conversion kit for car engines you have developed with Rod. A great answer to an issue that came much quicker than I believe anyone anticipated. Continued efforts from multiple manufacturers will be needed to keep this sect of the hobby alive. At the moment, the easiest answer to tunnels is electric power.
Through threads like this, showcasing new/ unproven products, I hope to garner some new interest and make people get there wheels turning about the possibility of unorthodox or different options to fit their needs.

Brandon,
Thank you for the kind words. I don't mind competition, heck, even a copy is flattering in its' own way, but i know the design of my drive is sound, and when one comes out that is close enough to my design that it might be mistaken for it, I look at it closely to see what the manufacturer chose to keep and what was changed. In the case of this drive, I noticed a couple things that I thought were detrimental to the design and thought I should mention them. To anyone who buys or has one i wish only great experiences using it. To anyone choosing my drive, I say "Thank You very much!"
Fred

 

[Greg Schweers]

The only reason I build this TFL Drive is because 3 guys in our club wanted to build G 30s and they wanted to use a cheap drive. If you had to pay someone to do the machine work and build the offset hinge pin bracket it would be cheaper to buy one of Fred’s. Plus you have to have custom flex shafts made. Did I need one of these drives no I have 3 lawless drives. The one I converted and Fred converted the other two to the electric. There’s a couple of things I don’t like about this drive first you have to tighten the crap out of that Allen head screws to keep the drive from moving. The flex cannot slide in from the top because the square on the flex hangs up on the stub shaft.

 

[Brandon Atwell]

Next piece of the puzzle

 

[Alan Elzer]

Does a k&b flexshaft the lawless 45 lower ? If not what's difference

 

[LawlessMan]

I buy the same shafts from Hyperformance as anyone can buy, "K&B" size 45 flexshafts. The ones I send with the drive are the same ones I sell as replacements. They should be 100% compatible. Ditto for the OS, K&B-20 and Thunder Tiger sizes that I sell. I tried, and had a very bad experience with, Chinese-made flexshafts, so I'm 100% domestic sourced.