5 port NR and 3280 in a jae 21

[tmunn]

Anyone running this setup or that would know ....what pipe length setting would you suggest trying to get to.I can swing the 1450 no problem and i am running 50%.

MY pipe is 8' using the plastic gauge but the motor is not playing that song i would like to hear ....YET

 

[Ron Jefferson]

Terry,

There is no magic pipe length, just what works for your set-up. Just being able to pull the 1450 isn't teling us much, but when you say it's not sing'n, you could be putting a load on the motor. I'd leave the pipe where it is for now and start working on the prop. With the 1450 you might want to reduce the diameter and maybe cut off a bit of the leading edge. Bump up the nitro to 65% cuz the little motors love it. There is no bigger challenge than a .21 rigger but the payoff is bliss. Get the R's up and the rest will come.

Not sure what pipe you're running but the "S" pipe from the Woods Bros. seems to be working well.

Just a few suggestions...

Later, Ron

 

[Mike Larson]

We tested adam's new Jae build sunday.... 5 port stock, and clearance, cooper/woods @ 8"...... We started with a cupped and cut 1445 i did to help the serious tight engine come in a little..... and it did.....

We had high 50's to 60 right outta the chute, and the motor is begging for it...... The dynamics/engineering of the little pipe are incredible.....you should be able to achieve the same with the 3280, barring measurement nominally.....

we're going to burn some tanks to aid the motor before we pull a bigger wheel, and pull the pipe in accordingly, as we go..... pre stated, searching for it will be fun, and sometimes work, but, the little 5 port really impresses me, and you should easily be able to gain rock and roll......

Terry, apples to orange, but my Jae likes the smaller props, too.... Mark Sholund and his knowledge hit my engine/pipe/hull combination precisely with an email, and a beautiful H6 he did.... JAE, Stanton Racing Engine, Cooper, @ 7 7/8th's..... my boat approached mid to high 60's without even trying, and actually scared me a little when the pipe hits hard..... keep testing..... Kentley tells it right on the first page, burn lots of fuel.... it'll rock.... good luck. mike

 

[steve wood]

We tested adam's new Jae build sunday.... 5 port stock, and clearance, cooper/woods @ 8"...... We started with a cupped and cut 1445 i did to help the serious tight engine come in a little..... and it did.....

We had high 50's to 60 right outta the chute, and the motor is begging for it...... The dynamics/engineering of the little pipe are incredible.....you should be able to achieve the same with the 3280, barring measurement nominally.....

we're going to burn some tanks to aid the motor before we pull a bigger wheel, and pull the pipe in accordingly, as we go..... pre stated, searching for it will be fun, and sometimes work, but, the little 5 port really impresses me, and you should easily be able to gain rock and roll......

Terry, apples to orange, but my Jae likes the smaller props, too.... Mark Sholund and his knowledge hit my engine/pipe/hull combination precisely with an email, and a beautiful H6 he did.... JAE, Stanton Racing Engine, Cooper, @ 7 7/8th's..... my boat approached mid to high 60's without even trying, and actually scared me a little when the pipe hits hard..... keep testing..... Kentley tells it right on the first page, burn lots of fuel.... it'll rock.... good luck. mike

keep shortening that pipe. i am hearing it really wakes up at 7 1/4

 

[tmunn]

thanks for all the input guys and john your pm and e-mail as well.I have some more props here a couple h4's ans a h5 and 1455 maybe some others around the same dia as the 1450 i will have to look in my box....

I will test next time out by going shorter on the pipe a little at a time and see what happens.

i went shorter on the pipe on the 12 nr in my jae as per glenns suggestion and that woke up well....much shorter than i thought i could go so i am going to try the same test .

it is difficult when you are the only boat on the water to tell how fast your going and if a change even makes a difference sometimes...I will keep at it...

Terry

 

[tmunn]

I shortened my pipe down to 7.5 and that seemed to make a difference but the engine ran rich and i was chasing the needle and the engine temp was not where i wanted to be ....The water temp and air temp was much colder than my last outing.I need to restrict more water flow..

I had been having trouble burning all the fuel so i changed tank setups and I still cannot burn the last 1/4 of the tank out before the engine quits.

I am using a new tank and plumbing.

This engine has had the bearings replaced and the fit seems fine but it it causing me some tuning issues in the JAE so i will check my lines and remote needle and the engine as well to see if i see anything obvious.

I will also rig my JAE for my Green head valvola and try that engine in it and the NR back in the hawk to see how the NR runs in the hawk if it runs fine i have a setup problem in the JAE.In other words i will do some trial and error to narrow the issues down...

Should i be able to turn the 1450 with the 21 valvola or should i try a smaller prop ?

and if so throw some prop numbers at me ...i do not have a large selection.

 

[Neil LaGarry]

My NR 35plus21 is a little fussy also ,just getting broke in . head shims @ .006-008 helped also. I ran my ops 3280 at a IMPBA District 1 it's over the 92 des. too LOUD. If you run for fun OK

 

[Geraghty]

I shortened my pipe down to 7.5 and that seemed to make a difference but the engine ran rich and i was chasing the needle and the engine temp was not where i wanted to be ....The water temp and air temp was much colder than my last outing.I need to restrict more water flow..

I had been having trouble burning all the fuel so i changed tank setups and I still cannot burn the last 1/4 of the tank out before the engine quits.

I am using a new tank and plumbing.

This engine has had the bearings replaced and the fit seems fine but it it causing me some tuning issues in the JAE so i will check my lines and remote needle and the engine as well to see if i see anything obvious.

I will also rig my JAE for my Green head valvola and try that engine in it and the NR back in the hawk to see how the NR runs in the hawk if it runs fine i have a setup problem in the JAE.In other words i will do some trial and error to narrow the issues down...

Should i be able to turn the 1450 with the 21 valvola or should i try a smaller prop ?

and if so throw some prop numbers at me ...i do not have a large selection.

I am about 98% sure there is nothing wrong with your motor...........

We are also experiencing fuel draw problems at lower fuel levels with the Sullivan tank .

At lower tank levels it appears the fuel is pulling away from the pick-up in the Sullivan tank during hard cornering.....

We know the problem is with the tank....we have tested [2] different tank plumbing scenarios and they both experience different draw symptoms with the same end results......

I have built a couple of surge [hopper] tanks and they will be tested this coming weekend......

I will keep the forum informed as to what the results are of these surge tank tests....

 

[Richard Dahlheimer]

Hello Terry, for the green head valvola try some props with less dia. than 1450. Octura 1445, ABC H-4 H-5 H-7. CMD .21 fat pipe is a great pipe for that motor. Must be run short (7and3/8ths-71/2"). Steve Wood is selling a S pipe that is made for the Valvola type motors also. Not sure how much room you have in your fuel tank compartment. Years ago, when i ran a plastic tank set up in a 20 hydro i used two 40z tanks. One tank worked as a "header" tank which solved fuel draw problems. Richard D

 

[tmunn]

Thanks all you guys and good to know on the tanks rod.I have setup my sullivan 8 oz differntly and have not tried it yet anf i also have a similar setup in a du-bro tank that the fuel would not all draw out of.

I use the soft brass and bent it around in the bottom left side of the tank so when the inertia from the boat at speed should push the fuel to the pickup.I am considering trying turning the tank around if the stopper end will not hit the cowl and use the fuel line aand Klunk inside the tank to see if that works..keep us informed on your tank.I could not run mill time and a race with the amout of fuel i am able to draw unless i maybe went out really late.

I will do a thorough inspection of the engine ....well as best as i can anyway but yeah Rod it was working real well in my hawk 3 weeks ago...

I think the cool damp temps had something to do with it.The head was way too cool when i brought the motor in.

 

[Mike Larson]

Terry.... We currently are using Mark's profiled H 5 3.6 and 44.88mm and the other a '6 @ 3.21 Adam's boat is on a cupped 1445 (bag dia. nominal, the cup, well, it's a one off)..... to start as his 5 port is tight...... Unless you reduce the '50 to 46 and less, I'll gamble it wont spin up....

everything's season to taste, but, I'd start with the pipe longer, and bring it in slowly, as you get a feel for what it'll pull.... i havent really shortened mine yet, as, i had great launch, serious supercharge, and top end with the h series i have... basically, i'm going to season to taste the more i test it...... that's the entire challenge/mystique that gets me to the water every sunday...... "Burn lots of fuel"........

I havent seen any effect from the 8 oz tank...... entirely possible, though, as, the boat will break your neck in the turns, and if it warrants the dual 4 oz is easily done.......

Good luck, man.... and hang on tight...... mike

 

[Ron Zaker Jr]

Thanks all you guys and good to know on the tanks rod.I have setup my sullivan 8 oz differntly and have not tried it yet anf i also have a similar setup in a du-bro tank that the fuel would not all draw out of.

I use the soft brass and bent it around in the bottom left side of the tank so when the inertia from the boat at speed should push the fuel to the pickup.I am considering trying turning the tank around if the stopper end will not hit the cowl and use the fuel line aand Klunk inside the tank to see if that works..keep us informed on your tank.I could not run mill time and a race with the amout of fuel i am able to draw unless i maybe went out really late.

I will do a thorough inspection of the engine ....well as best as i can anyway but yeah Rod it was working real well in my hawk 3 weeks ago...

I think the cool damp temps had something to do with it.The head was way too cool when i brought the motor in.

TMUNN,

Sit tight and don't try too many changes,I tested the 2 tanks over the weekend Rod mentioned,the clunk did not help,nor the typical fixed pick up in the outward corner of the tank. We have the solution ,just wating to run it and make sure.Thanks.

 

[LarryConrad]

Lights, (Mark Leyde)'s 5 port powered JAE pulls a full diameter pitched up 1450 with no problem,and it's no slouch, after it's fully broken in and has that S pipe short enough, it will really be a screamer. Most all of my tunnels, both my monos and all my sport hydros use sullivan tanks and I run a hopper tank with all of them to prevent the issues described above. For a .21 an 8 and a 2 will get even a thirsty engine like a Mac through mill time and a 6 lap race with more than enough left over for that victory lap.

Larry

 

[tmunn]

thanks a lot guys and you guys are all great...this engine is broken in and the few times i had it running with the 1450 it looked good and hauled really well and i did see improvements when i shortened the pipe and it launched well but then the engine was not getting up to temp.It was less than 50* last outing..i will work one one thing first and wait for a tank to take that issue off the table.

I had built it a bit incorrectly and was totally my fault and now i have that worked our and about 1* neg in my mamaril strut and it is not blowing off and i have dave preuse fin on it and that one is not bending so you see i have been picking away at it but it seems to be plagueing me....i was not happy last night...there is a race next weekend but i can still run my hawk...for now...

i will check the engine on the weekend...

thanks again

 

[Terry Keeley]

If fuel is forced to the LHS when you go into a turn hard, what happens when you come outta da turn hard?

 

[tmunn]

MIke any pics of the two 4 oz tanks or anyone have one with a hopper setup in the JAE.something i could consider trying until i get a tank that works...just possibly pressed for time but no biggy...I am trying to learn to relaz a bit...

 

[Jim Caldwell]

Bye plug, Terry?

 

[Mike Larson]

Terry.... cant do pics..,.. somebody will.... the hopper tank system, pipe to vent , pickup to vent , pickup to carb , second tank on the LHS...... personally i'm not a big fan of the plastic tanks.... i've had stoppers blow/leak, and keep a spare in my box just for this scenario...... with the Jae designed around the 8, i used it accordingly..... I'd almost be searching a pressure tap leak, in your case...... seems youre running, burn lots of fuel....... good luck.... Mike

 

[Mark Leyde]

I am about 98% sure there is nothing wrong with your motor...........

We are also experiencing fuel draw problems at lower fuel levels with the Sullivan tank .

At lower tank levels it appears the fuel is pulling away from the pick-up in the Sullivan tank during hard cornering.....

We know the problem is with the tank....we have tested [2] different tank plumbing scenarios and they both experience different draw symptoms with the same end results......

I have built a couple of surge [hopper] tanks and they will be tested this coming weekend......

I will keep the forum informed as to what the results are of these surge tank tests....

I am also having some fuel draw problemsat about 1/4 tank with the sullivan tank. Might have to get a metal tank??? Yes Rod I have a JAE21 and if I do say so I like it. It was running 59mph with in a couple of hours of it's first launch.

Mark

 

[tmunn]

guys ,,, on the nr 5 port where does the arrow on the head point it is the one by the three little dots intake or exhaust.I cannot remember.

The carb to case fit is good and both o rings are good and the crank is not scored and the pl fit is very good and the head and top of the piston are pitted some but have seen worse and they ran fine.

The bearings are free and not rough at all ..

I will check for leaks in the tank and then try it again when weather permits.

I will keep you updated while i wait for the news on the tanks.

I had tried a new plug and it never mattered.

Mark are you saying you can burn 1/4 tank or down to 1/4 remaining...my scenario is 1/4 remaining aprox..