5 boat minimum to make a class

[Tom Foley]

I raced Nitro for many, many years. Depending on the class you run, there is definitely a ton of challenges. Hull choice (buy or build your own) engine mods, props (huge performance advantage). Plugs, fuel, hull adjustment etc. etc. etc. You have to be a true craftsman/mechanic to compete at the highest level. Or, pay the price and kiss some butt. I played this game for a long time before seeking change.
Now, not so much. I've chosen the easy route and although I don't compete much because I refuse to spend half my paycheck on travel and accommodations. I run gas boats. SS mono, boat and hardware off the shelf. A $5 plug once a year and $30 worth of the most expensive fuel money can buy and a half dozen prop choices makes it easy for me. Funny thing is, I'm having more fun than ever and I have way more time on my hands for friends and family.
As for 3-5 boat minimums. With 3 you run the chance one doesn't show and you end up with a 2 boat heat. With five you have a class either way and a race worth running. And, 5 boats may cover the cost or trophies.

Very nice comment but the 5 boat minimum apparently is not working well here in D 3 . Highest level ? I've seen the best tuners and builders DNF just like everyone else

Same hull tuning challenges apply to gasboats just like nitro . The issue here is that it is plain as day that is seems nitro is being intentionally eliminated .

 

[Tim Kish]

Sorry for getting off topic Tom.
Perhaps an up to date list of active nitro boats in each district would help people decide what to build .
I'm building two new nitro boats for next year , both are fairly consistent classes in D1.

 

[Ron Jefferson]

So Tom, is your problem 5 boat minimum or Gas vrs Nitro?

 

[Tim Kish]

I raced Nitro for many, many years. Depending on the class you run, there is definitely a ton of challenges. Hull choice (buy or build your own) engine mods, props (huge performance advantage). Plugs, fuel, hull adjustment etc. etc. etc. You have to be a true craftsman/mechanic to compete at the highest level. Or, pay the price and kiss some butt. I played this game for a long time before seeking change.
Now, not so much. I've chosen the easy route and although I don't compete much because I refuse to spend half my paycheck on travel and accommodations. I run gas boats. SS mono, boat and hardware off the shelf. A $5 plug once a year and $30 worth of the most expensive fuel money can buy and a half dozen prop choices makes it easy for me. Funny thing is, I'm having more fun than ever and I have way more time on my hands for friends and family.
As for 3-5 boat minimums. With 3 you run the chance one doesn't show and you end up with a 2 boat heat. With five you have a class either way and a race worth running. And, 5 boats may cover the cost or trophies.

I raced Nitro for many, many years. Depending on the class you run, there is definitely a ton of challenges. Hull choice (buy or build your own) engine mods, props (huge performance advantage). Plugs, fuel, hull adjustment etc. etc. etc. You have to be a true craftsman/mechanic to compete at the highest level. Or, pay the price and kiss some butt. I played this game for a long time before seeking change.
Now, not so much. I've chosen the easy route and although I don't compete much because I refuse to spend half my paycheck on travel and accommodations. I run gas boats. SS mono, boat and hardware off the shelf. A $5 plug once a year and $30 worth of the most expensive fuel money can buy and a half dozen prop choices makes it easy for me. Funny thing is, I'm having more fun than ever and I have way more time on my hands for friends and family.
As for 3-5 boat minimums. With 3 you run the chance one doesn't show and you end up with a 2 boat heat. With five you have a class either way and a race worth running. And, 5 boats may cover the cost or

I raced Nitro for many, many years. Depending on the class you run, there is definitely a ton of challenges. Hull choice (buy or build your own) engine mods, props (huge performance advantage). Plugs, fuel, hull adjustment etc. etc. etc. You have to be a true craftsman/mechanic to compete at the highest level. Or, pay the price and kiss some butt. I played this game for a long time before seeking change.
Now, not so much. I've chosen the easy route and although I don't compete much because I refuse to spend half my paycheck on travel and accommodations. I run gas boats. SS mono, boat and hardware off the shelf. A $5 plug once a year and $30 worth of the most expensive fuel money can buy and a half dozen prop choices makes it easy for me. Funny thing is, I'm having more fun than ever and I have way more time on my hands for friends and family.
As for 3-5 boat minimums. With 3 you run the chance one doesn't show and you end up with a 2 boat heat. With five you have a class either way and a race worth running. And, 5 boats may cover the cost or trophies.

Guess that's why gas never excited me, I'm not interested in easy.

 

[FloridaScaleBoater]

So Tom, is your problem 5 boat minimum or Gas vrs Nitro?

I can assure you, Tom's problem is NOT a gas versus nitro issue, as said earlier, Tom have plenty of each.
The 5 boat minimum is killing any chance of being able to run ANY nitro boats

 

[Tom Foley]

So Tom, is your problem 5 boat minimum or Gas vrs Nitro?

Seems to be a 5 boat problem for some classes . I enjoy running both gas and nitro but have been running all nitro to try to help.the classes . . Sometimes it works , sometimes it doesnt . I am not a member of any clubs due to available time , I try to go to 5 races a year

 

[Ron Jefferson]

Guess that's why gas never excited me, I'm not interested in easy.

I applaud you for taking the road less travelled Tim, even though you had it all figured out 7 plus years ago.

"Im well aware of what Chris is trying to do but it's not something new it's been around for a very long time and as the remaining die hard Nitro guys move on its attendance has followed suit.

A couple decent races does not change the fact that almost zero NEW faces are racing Nitro these days. You can only draw from the same pool for so long before it dries up.

Good luck Chris really Don't see the point in pointing out the obvious to those that just can't accept where the hobby is headed."

Tim

 

[Tim Kish]

I applaud you for taking the road less travelled Tim, even though you had it all figured out 7 plus years ago.

"Im well aware of what Chris is trying to do but it's not something new it's been around for a very long time and as the remaining die hard Nitro guys move on its attendance has followed suit.

A couple decent races does not change the fact that almost zero NEW faces are racing Nitro these days. You can only draw from the same pool for so long before it dries up.

Good luck Chris really Don't see the point in pointing out the obvious to those that just can't accept where the hobby is headed."

Tim

Still plenty of options to race nitro if you're willing to travel and to compete in this hobby we have always had to travel regardless of what your interest is.
If you can't afford to or no longer care to that's cool but I would say at minimum joining a club hanging out with friends and helping to grow the hobby is every bit as rewarding as racing if not more.

 

[J.J. Horvath]

I think D3 is working on a 3 series race for FE and Nitro specifically.

 

[Danny King]

I think D3 is working on a 3 series race for FE and Nitro specifically.

Yes. They will decide the dates and locations without input from the racers…….again a very very small group is making all the decisions. It also doesn’t address the issue that guys built gas boats so they could attend a district races and run more classes. Only to have 5% of the district completely change the rules.
The board for district 3 has put out a format and schedule for the first 2 years for the mostly all gas high point series before putting anything out for electric and gas.

 

[Tom Foley]

Still plenty of options to race nitro if you're willing to travel and to compete in this hobby we have always had to travel regardless of what your interest is.
If you can't afford to or no longer care to that's cool but I would say at minimum joining a club hanging out with friends and helping to grow the hobby is every bit as rewarding as racing if not more.

True , just no time to dedicate to the club . I'm spread pretty thin between my shop , 2 houses to take care of , full size boats and other stuff but I love my guys in the Brandon club .

 

[HTV Boats]

I have been supporting nitro classes that have dwindled for years. Now I am trying to build an FE structure. The 5-boat rule works against me but for large 2 day races I accept it. To plan and buy awards and run the races is an effort. Time is a factor and pushing to make X number of heats to me is not fun and just creates stress for everyone involved. 3 or 4 boat classes lose one boat and it really isn't a race just an accommodation to 2-3 people who could fun run together another time.
For those classes and racers that don't make the cut it hurts. In our district gas has no problems filling out the way too many classes that have been created. Nitro and FE racers need to step up and support events or maybe look at some one day races. It will take commitment and involvement. If you just want to pay the fees and show up at your convenience so be it. That does not build races. Show up to club meetings and help out where you can otherwise a small number of people will make decisions you don't like.
Mic

 

[Eric Canto]

Because the district 3 director prioritized HIGH POINTS series this year and next. Forcing the clubs to a set of rules if they wished to be a host of a district race.
Nitro and fe we basically eliminated by:
1. Making it 5 boats instead 3 to make a class.
2. They were also dropping classes short of 5 boats about 1 month prior to the actual race and then it opened spots for more gas boat.

Then added more gas classes.

Something had to give. There was about 33 classes. There was no way to have a 2 day race of 4 rounds.
Instead of asking and listening for feedback. 5% of the district voted and came up with a new way. No agenda. No meeting access, no minutes, no voice, Most didn’t know it was being done.

There is so much to say. It has been an unbelievable switch in district 3.

Gets elected by gas, fe and nitro guys only to wipe out many that voted for him.

Only 5% of membership gets to vote. “The board”
Half the board was appointed by the director
Half the board is club presidents many members in the district are not in a club
Private meetings
No open forum
Facebook page is not an open forum. They control who sees it. Who posts or what is posted. And even block some.
There isnt even a nitro director this year.

There is plenty more….

The vast majority of the effort has been HIGH POINT RACES.it does not cater to the majority.
Make sure before you vote for someone you know their plan.

 

[Grimracer]

Let's hear some opinions on a 5 boat minimum to make a class. Are we that pompous and self righteous that classes that are struggling and need competitors , particularly young people that we will just not let them compete ? The only way to build back is to allow these classes to run with fewer boats . What is the difference whether 5 run or 3 run.? Same time or less to run the heat
Model Boat racing is a hobby
Let's try to build it back not hold it back . Let's hear your thoughts on this .

I have to ask.. how might the minimum number of boats make the people "self righteous". .. i have to stretch that to make the connection.

In the end we have too many classes (I am not sure that's even an opinion any more!) and those classes we love to race "might not fill" from time to time. Not a stretch there!

Grim

 

[Bill Gibson]

I think D3 is working on a 3 series race for FE and Nitro specifically.

That would be fantastic J.J.!!! I wish there could be more of that just to keep the classes active! I have run both before and had a great time!

 

[Grimracer]

I applaud you for taking the road less travelled Tim, even though you had it all figured out 7 plus years ago.

"Im well aware of what Chris is trying to do but it's not something new it's been around for a very long time and as the remaining die hard Nitro guys move on its attendance has followed suit.

A couple decent races does not change the fact that almost zero NEW faces are racing Nitro these days. You can only draw from the same pool for so long before it dries up.

Good luck Chris really Don't see the point in pointing out the obvious to those that just can't accept where the hobby is headed."

Tim

Ron,

If I might.. a new racer is only a new racer ONE TIME.. priority should ALWAYS be.. taking care of those in the game now..

To me there is a VERY large separation between NEW and OLD racers. We are FAR better off (way less work for all) to work WITH those currently in the hobby. If they are having fun they will identify and tell the right person.

Grim

 

[Tom Foley]

I have to ask.. how might the minimum number of boats make the people "self righteous". .. i have to stretch that to make the connection.

In the end we have too many classes (I am not sure that's even an opinion any more!) and those classes we love to race "might not fill" from time to time. Not a stretch there!

Grim

I used it in the context of one type of boat being portrayed as more important than the other due to the number of them . I could be wrong but I have felt that a few times whether it was true or not I don't know . In for 8 now so I will be busy looking for a pitman all day LOL .!

 

[Danny King]

Ah. So I see. You have not addressed one issue I pointed out. Or pointed out where I have lied. I may be mistaken. But I’m no liar. Quite the contrary, I call it how I see it. But I’m not always right. On one hand there is me out in the open. On the other is you. Private conversation nobody hears and meeting
Nobody can see or hear.

I am not interested at all in a private conversation with you. It needs to be out in the open so anyone who wants To can hear it. Like if we had real meetings. It is much easier to control info when it is in private. That’s why your meetings and voting are private. The FB page is private.
When I emailed the president back in March it was supposed to be a phone meeting between the president and the Vp and myself. It would have been helpful to have their input on areas of concern and procedure But you were either informed of it or forwarded the email. You decided to confront me at a race about it. I would not have confronted you at the race. You were there to race. Not haggle out politics. You traveled and were racing. I had a bunch of personal stuff going on and still wouldn’t have done it at a race.
There are no open forums. For discussions.

There is no access to meetings except for the board. No minutes. No agenda just big changes by 5% of the members.

By the time the district was aware of your changes it was too late.

On FB You are screening who gets to see the district page. You know Who’s reads it, can and have blocked people. Also a collective effort is made to put up posts to push posts you don’t like down the page. It is totally obvious.

I may not be 100% right but I’m not lieing.
But this is exactly what happens when transparency doesn’t exist.
But I tell you what Eric. Ask me whatever you want model boating related right here and I’ll answer it and you do the same. That’s transparency.
Last October at the Randy premo race you said “I don’t want to hear anything about separating gas and nitro and Fe there is room for all of them “ and I said “no there isn’t room for 33 classes something has to give.”
Next thing I know is it’s late January and the trickling of info about the new rules is making its way around. It’s done!
Who, what and how it all happened nobody knows could say. I shouldn’t need to call you. It should be public knowledge and it wasn’t. But what it was was a Complete 180 from your October statement.
At dinner early February I told Ken Haines that nitro and FE were eliminated from the district races and he said no it will be fine. Well by broward’s april race the writing was on the walls everywhere.

While you have been director:

boat count rules to 5 boat minimum were changed

Some of the earlier races removed classes short of 5 boats, 1Month before the race

A full 8 or 9 race high point series was set up and ready to go for the beginning of the year with no notification to the district it was happening. Therefor no input could be taken.

By September of the first year the next years race format was decided to be the same as the first years. Meanwhile nothing to address nitro and FE. even though there is room in the existing format for limited classes.

5% of the district is in the meetings and votes

3 new gas classes immediately created. One of which is a powder puff class for only woman. Not kids or new boaters. Just woman. And is EXEMPT from the 5 boat minimum. If there was room for more gas there was room for existing classes. Kelly actually told Gavin Crowther that even if it was a novice class he wouldn’t be allowed in it, because you’re too good. Meanwhile he Had raced 2 Events up till then and was 10 years old.

Not a single race with a db meter for sound enforcement it is a rule And the only way to enforce is by db meter.
Lakes are at a premium and for some only a
Matter of time before they are gone and noise is the easiest issue to address.

There is no nitro director. This alone is telling.

Clubs were pushed to join the format in a hurry.

Sara Crowther had a 45 minute discussion with you at a race in April. Nothing came of it. Steady the course. It was dead as it left her mouth.

You say you are for the majority. Please explain. About 45 of the same people make races. But isn’t there around 300 in the district? How is that a majority? 9 months into your first year and you have done 2 seasons of high point formats but not one FE or nitro. not one offer for a meeting with nitro and FE racers. But not even an Open meeting for gas racers.

You were elected by nitro and fe and gas guys to be a district director. Not a gas high points director. While you have certainly put your time into this. I can see that. And I’m sure I haven’t seen it all. But you have done it your way without the input of the VAST MAJORITY of the members many of whom voted for you. And I voted for you as well.
And it is already failing. The boat and driver count is down from the beginning of the year. Last year same month at Brandon the driver and boat count was higher than this years D3 format race. In case you’re interested.

I run about every other Sunday at a lake for 10 years now. Not one trophy nor one point is given out. Yet. The comradery is excellent. It is about sharing your time at a lake and everyone helps everyone. There is no secret meeting or handshakes Or texts. Let’s run boats is all. Since when did NAMBA become fixated on points and racing? Because that’s how D3 is run.

Eric you have done a lot. And you have invested lots of time. As well as Kelly I’m sure. But you did it your way with a Selected board to be sure it is your way. You certainly reached out to me after you found out i emailed Richard. But you didn’t give 2 bits prior. Your changes were made.
If you ran for election today Eric would you be elected? There is no greater measurement for how well one represents the majority as being able to be re-elected. And I can honestly say I say no way you do in my opinion and the number of people I talk to. You turned your back to nitro and Fe after you were elected. And not all gas guys are loving it either.

Feel free to point out anything I’m wrong on. If I’m wrong I’ll admit it. But with how secretive your run has been it’s hard to know the truth.

 

[Danny King]

For anyone interested this is notes I
Emailed to the NAMBA president to asked for a phone meeting with the president and vp. All the way back in March.

NAMBA

This is the most disappointing thing I have ever seen in rc boats.
The district has basically been commandeered.
1. Who was told this would be the way it was run?that alone should have been put before the district members.
2. How can you say it represents the majority? Over 250 NAMBA members in Florida and how many voting??12 or 15 and who are they? I have yet to see a list of who they are or how many there are. At the very least we should have voted on who they would be.
3. Eric was voted in by the majority as director. Not gas director or race director. But director to represent the entire membership of the district. And that is far from happening.
4. I have also yet to see how these appointed representatives voted. Not one reached out to anyone I know for their input so they can best represent the majority. However it should still be the majority voting. Not a board let alone an appointed board.
5. These meetings should have been open to the membership, the district belongs to all members of said district.
6. I am sure the 50ish racers are happy with how it’s going. They are represented but there are way more not being represented. And for the record. I am not a nitro guy. I own all three types of boats. And even have some race gas boats. But there isn’t even room for all the gas boats. Clearly. And I didn’t expect there to be zero nitro. And if 30 nitro boats sign up(only really possible at Brandon)that will leave 30 gas boats that can’t enter. That isn’t good for racing at all. Having a 200 boat race a month is great for the guys that want to race but it is hardly awesome. We are the 3rd most populous state and the threshold to celebrate is 200 boats? I told Eric in October there is no way all these classes can make for a great race. He said he was for all types of boats and he doesn’t want to hear about separating by fuel types. But yet here it is clear as day There are enough gas boats for their own series. Well now it’s here. Of course it is. The biggest gripe is the pushing of clubs to follow the format. Thus making a blanket format for the whole state. And thus zero effort for nitro and barely any for electric. Again I am happy as could be there is a gas series/race that is solid but it definitely came at the sacrifice of others. And WITHOUT the majority having a say.
7. As far as no boat limit. Eric is the one running the most boats. And we will monitor it for a year. VOTE ON IT!!!! Last March Eric and 3 others made up 27% of the entires. There were Atleast 3 others that couldn’t get in. Broward filled up and Miami filled up both very quickly. And yet. There’s Eric racing the most boats stopping another 1 or more from being able to enter. No problem changing a pile of rules but not that one. No other district in this country has the concentration of boaters or boat as does Florida. 90% or more of both are within 200 miles of Melbourne. It is a perfect example of how blanket rules are not wise. Unique situations require unique solutions. Vote on it!
8. It’s obvious you guys are putting a bunch of time into this. But it doesn’t excuse not following the district rules. This district belongs to all members. You are running a district like a club and pushing the clubs to follow along. No matter how much you work at it your vote is no more powerful then anyone else’s.
9. Eric reached out to me like last Friday. I missed the call but he did call. Basically 4 months after a free for all on the district. Commendable but very late. I am not interested in a pvt convo. These things should be discussed openly and not one on one. Those who want it on the down low are not wanting everyone to know what is going on. This is where it has gone wrong from the beginning. I along with many I know of voted for Eric. And never were we told he Intended to ignore the district rules and have private voting. This is exactly why you don’t do that. I am far from the only one not happy. But worse, I am shocked and very disappointed Eric did it this way. Very very hypocritical. And not at all what I expected from him.
10. I will be looking for NAMBA leadership to respond as I can’t imagine they are fully aware or were on board with the appointed board voting process.
11. I am as big a model boat nerd you will find. And a fan of all aspects of it. I am not being divisive. The way the district is being run is the most divisive thing I’ve seen in model boats.
12. NAMBA collects 50 bucks x 286 members.. 51 of which are points racers. $14,300 bucks for 2022 alone. We have paid to be in this district and should have a vote in it. You have your token nitro guy and token electric guy voting but a hand picked BOARD. this is nowhere near representation.
13. I believe $3 per entry goes towards high points. If it still does and then awards are shirts and stickers….that means there will be roughly 8 races with 200 boats and 1 with 300 for a total of 1900 entries in the district this season x $3 is $5700 collected towards shirts and stickers? Is this the correct math? And where is the public disclosure for this?
14. Also, I have heard there is discussion or intention or progress in putting forward a rule to be able to remove people from NAMBA or the district for their opinion or actions. Why is this not openly posted anywhere for all to see? So there is no guessing or surprises. I would like clarification please.


I truly believe what is happening in this district is exactly why we have Impba and NAMBA and both have their processes. If you notice nobody’s name is in the title. They are associations and they exist to stop this type of thing. Most of this could have been accomplished through the proper procedure’s. But it wasn’t. And still isn’t.
This should all be discussed in the open. Not on the phone and not on private zoom meetings.
What I have written is what I know or have heard. Problem is what is true and what isn’t is very hard to know when there isn’t full transparency. And is exactly why this isn’t how to do it.
We are basically 4 months into the district directors term and just now, after many many changes is it being partly explained how it’s going to work. Not the way it’s suppose to be.

*Some of this is true and some may not be 100% hence the effort to find out. But being able to find out is difficult when there is no minutes from the meetings. No open meeting no agendas. No transparency. *
Maybe Eric would like address this in the open and correct my mistakes. *

 

[Ron Jefferson]

Ron,

If I might.. a new racer is only a new racer ONE TIME.. priority should ALWAYS be.. taking care of those in the game now..

To me there is a VERY large separation between NEW and OLD racers. We are FAR better off (way less work for all) to work WITH those currently in the hobby. If they are having fun they will identify and tell the right person.

Grim

Mike, just to clarify. In my post the paragraphs between the quotes are the words of Tim Kish, not mine.

Ron