45 Rigger Pipe

[Tim Kish]

Ok guys lets talk about header pipes . Last sommer I finished a MODDED VAC 45 JAE with a stock 4" long header pipe uncut and a $ 25.00 cmb quite pipe from stu bar starying @ 10 1/2" I ran it all the way in to 8 3/4" and ran low 80s

while I have looking for a AB pipe . The combo worked well until I cut the header down to a 1 1/2'' and thats when I lost major power . I came back out to 9 1/4" and still nothing. I barrowed a AB 45 parobolic and still nothing .I ordered a new header pipe put it on powers back with both pipes. My understanding is you cut the header header down so the shock wave will work better with no restrictions .I am still looking for a nice Andy Brown pipe . thanks Charlie

Can anyone explain the principal of cutting down the header pipe . The drawinng shows more of what I am trying to explaine above.

Charles, been there, done that, long header has more torque, your boat setup, prop combo must need the extra torque from the longer header, short header jumps to a larger angle in the pipe for less torque.

JM2CW

dick

Exactly what I was thinking , when you drive the header deep into the pipe it acts the same as running a longer pipe.

Interesting way to run a longer pipe in a confined space if need be.

Tim

 

[moe1117]

Just a thought, Do you change the pressure going to the fuel tank by extending the header in and out of the pipe maybe this affects the fuel draw ???

 

[Tim Kish]

Just a thought, Do you change the pressure going to the fuel tank by extending the header in and out of the pipe maybe this affects the fuel draw ???

I would think any extra resistance would add back preasure , just as reducing the stinger dia does, no?

 

[Neil LaGarry]

If anyone has bought and used Glenn Q Texan.12 pipe. same way the header slides into the pipe.

 

[SayMikey]

Just a thought, Do you change the pressure going to the fuel tank by extending the header in and out of the pipe maybe this affects the fuel draw ???

I would think any extra resistance would add back preasure , just as reducing the stinger dia does, no?

Thats what im thinking,only choking the front cone instead of the rear. Or it could be creating more heat and helping a motor thats running too cold

 

[charles siler]

Ok guys lets talk about header pipes . Last sommer I finished a MODDED VAC 45 JAE with a stock 4" long header pipe uncut and a $ 25.00 cmb quite pipe from stu bar starying @ 10 1/2" I ran it all the way in to 8 3/4" and ran low 80s

while I have looking for a AB pipe . The combo worked well until I cut the header down to a 1 1/2'' and thats when I lost major power . I came back out to 9 1/4" and still nothing. I barrowed a AB 45 parobolic and still nothing .I ordered a new header pipe put it on powers back with both pipes. My understanding is you cut the header header down so the shock wave will work better with no restrictions .I am still looking for a nice Andy Brown pipe . thanks Charlie

Can anyone explain the principal of cutting down the header pipe . The drawinng shows more of what I am trying to explaine above.

Charles, been there, done that, long header has more torque, your boat setup, prop combo must need the extra torque from the longer header, short header jumps to a larger angle in the pipe for less torque.

JM2CW

dick

Dick thanks for the Explanation on the header so what way do you think would be the better way to go for pipe salection I just got a cooper pipe and I was looking at one of the novarossi and one of the AA pipe. I again thank you for your wisdom Charles

 

[richard jones]

Ok guys lets talk about header pipes . Last sommer I finished a MODDED VAC 45 JAE with a stock 4" long header pipe uncut and a $ 25.00 cmb quite pipe from stu bar starying @ 10 1/2" I ran it all the way in to 8 3/4" and ran low 80s

while I have looking for a AB pipe . The combo worked well until I cut the header down to a 1 1/2'' and thats when I lost major power . I came back out to 9 1/4" and still nothing. I barrowed a AB 45 parobolic and still nothing .I ordered a new header pipe put it on powers back with both pipes. My understanding is you cut the header header down so the shock wave will work better with no restrictions .I am still looking for a nice Andy Brown pipe . thanks Charlie

Can anyone explain the principal of cutting down the header pipe . The drawinng shows more of what I am trying to explaine above.

Charles, been there, done that, long header has more torque, your boat setup, prop combo must need the extra torque from the longer header, short header jumps to a larger angle in the pipe for less torque.

JM2CW

dick

Dick thanks for the Explanation on the header so what way do you think would be the better way to go for pipe salection I just got a cooper pipe and I was looking at one of the novarossi and one of the AA pipe. I again thank you for your wisdom Charles

My question is what do U want to do with your boat, race it or just try to go faster, if it is racing U should look at the speed U gave, low 80's, and how was that speed obtained, on a long straight run or between buoy 9 and buoy 1, if it was between buoy 9 and buoy 1 and it throttles fairly easily, your boat is ready to race with 98 percent of the boats I have used the truth alizer on in racing conditions. When there are multiple boats racing on a course and the water gets chopped up and ad a little wind the actual speed of the boats on the course is reduced quite a lot depending on how rough the water gets. If your goal is to make your boat go as fast as U can, there are to many variables with each boat to just pick one pipe as the best pipe with out trying all the available pipes and changing all the variables such as carbs and carb sizes, spray bar diameters, induction numbers, liner passage mods, piston mods, transfer, boost, and exhaust timing changes, piston tops flat or dished, head button design which there are many designs, piston to liner seal, loose, tight or just right?, piston to head button distance, I have seen engines running from .002 to .035, clearance, how many water lines in, and how many lines out in the cooling jackets, ( I have a Mac 45 that I run without any water cooling), air temp, water temp, humidity, altitude, density altitude,, grains of water, and then try to pick 1 of about 600 different glowplugs with heat ranges from super hot to super cold, it would be pretty hard for any one to pick the best pipe unless they had O be One Knobee standing by your side, I say this because there are so many boaters that have a particular pipe that they like and works well for them, in there particular application or boat which may have been the best pipe they tried and they are happy with it. It truly is a trial by fire getting to the place U are happy with your boat and how much time U are willing to spend on it.

Hope this helps

JM2CW

dick

 

[richard jones]

Just a thought, Do you change the pressure going to the fuel tank by extending the header in and out of the pipe maybe this affects the fuel draw ???

Just a thought, Do you change the pressure going to the fuel tank by extending the header in and out of the pipe maybe this affects the fuel draw ???

I would think any extra resistance would add back preasure , just as reducing the stinger dia does, no?

Thats what im thinking,only choking the front cone instead of the rear. Or it could be creating more heat and helping a motor thats running too cold

I have seen this happen in a few my own boats over the years, and quite a few times when trying to help someone get there boat running or running better at launch or throttling.

In this case the header being pushed inside the pipe 2 1/2 kept the wave speed the same for the additional 2 1/2 inches which resulted in more torque, as opposed to have the wave speed increase the 2 1/2 sooner taking away some of the torque the engine needed to get up on pipe. The longer header, inside the pipe does not choke anything or change the pipe pressure going to the tank, it simply replaces the the front 2 1/2 inches of the angle of the pipe with the 2 1/2 inches of straight section. It also does not mean this is a good way to as some one posted "run a shorter pipe", as the better torque is a trade off with loss of acceleration.

JM2CW

dick

 

[Joe Warren]

Ok guys lets talk about header pipes . Last sommer I finished a MODDED VAC 45 JAE with a stock 4" long header pipe uncut and a $ 25.00 cmb quite pipe from stu bar starying @ 10 1/2" I ran it all the way in to 8 3/4" and ran low 80s

while I have looking for a AB pipe . The combo worked well until I cut the header down to a 1 1/2'' and thats when I lost major power . I came back out to 9 1/4" and still nothing. I barrowed a AB 45 parobolic and still nothing .I ordered a new header pipe put it on powers back with both pipes. My understanding is you cut the header header down so the shock wave will work better with no restrictions .I am still looking for a nice Andy Brown pipe . thanks Charlie

Can anyone explain the principal of cutting down the header pipe . The drawinng shows more of what I am trying to explaine above.

Charles, been there, done that, long header has more torque, your boat setup, prop combo must need the extra torque from the longer header, short header jumps to a larger angle in the pipe for less torque.

JM2CW

dick

Dick thanks for the Explanation on the header so what way do you think would be the better way to go for pipe salection I just got a cooper pipe and I was looking at one of the novarossi and one of the AA pipe. I again thank you for your wisdom Charles

My question is what do U want to do with your boat, race it or just try to go faster, if it is racing U should look at the speed U gave, low 80's, and how was that speed obtained, on a long straight run or between buoy 9 and buoy 1, if it was between buoy 9 and buoy 1 and it throttles fairly easily, your boat is ready to race with 98 percent of the boats I have used the truth alizer on in racing conditions. When there are multiple boats racing on a course and the water gets chopped up and ad a little wind the actual speed of the boats on the course is reduced quite a lot depending on how rough the water gets. If your goal is to make your boat go as fast as U can, there are to many variables with each boat to just pick one pipe as the best pipe with out trying all the available pipes and changing all the variables such as carbs and carb sizes, spray bar diameters, induction numbers, liner passage mods, piston mods, transfer, boost, and exhaust timing changes, piston tops flat or dished, head button design which there are many designs, piston to liner seal, loose, tight or just right?, piston to head button distance, I have seen engines running from .002 to .035, clearance, how many water lines in, and how many lines out in the cooling jackets, ( I have a Mac 45 that I run without any water cooling), air temp, water temp, humidity, altitude, density altitude,, grains of water, and then try to pick 1 of about 600 different glowplugs with heat ranges from super hot to super cold, it would be pretty hard for any one to pick the best pipe unless they had O be One Knobee standing by your side, I say this because there are so many boaters that have a particular pipe that they like and works well for them, in there particular application or boat which may have been the best pipe they tried and they are happy with it. It truly is a trial by fire getting to the place U are happy with your boat and how much time U are willing to spend on it.

Hope this helps

JM2CW

dick

Dicks reponse reminds me of the days Mcgraw would carry a dryer basket full of 20 pipes to the lake just to test on one little boat. if you could find 2-3 mph it was a good day. the basket usually went home 1/2 as full........ the rest were in the bottom of the lake.

 

[Joe Warren]

Greg here are some better pics of the headers and pipe.

What was the operating temp of this engine that benefited from the long header? I think Mikey has already answered the difference. One of the few things I learned this year many are running the engine too cold on operating temp.

 

[charles siler]

Greg here are some better pics of the headers and pipe.

What was the operating temp of this engine that benefited from the long header? I think Mikey has already answered the difference. One of the few things I learned this year many are running the engine too cold on operating temp.

Joe the motor temp wasnt very high warm to the touch mabe just over 100 deg. thre pipes temp didnt get vert hot eather .

I didnt restrict the water yet I wanted to get and tune a better pipe but couldnt find one befor our season ended.

 

[dwilfong]

Charles do the water first.

Every thing will change after this is done.

 

[Joe Warren]

Greg here are some better pics of the headers and pipe.

What was the operating temp of this engine that benefited from the long header? I think Mikey has already answered the difference. One of the few things I learned this year many are running the engine too cold on operating temp.

Joe the motor temp wasnt very high warm to the touch mabe just over 100 deg. thre pipes temp didnt get vert hot eather .

I didnt restrict the water yet I wanted to get and tune a better pipe but couldnt find one befor our season ended.

180 degrees plus is were i try to tune.. I believe it is required to light the nitro in the fuel.

 

[Buckshot]

180 degrees plus is were i try to tune.. I believe it is required to light the nitro in the fuel.

JW,

Where, when and how are you measuring your head temps? 180* for all 60% fueled motor?

\m/

 

[Joe Warren]

180 degrees plus is were i try to tune.. I believe it is required to light the nitro in the fuel.

JW,

Where, when and how are you measuring your head temps? 180* for all 60% fueled motor?

\m/

Cooling head temp with a infrared heat gun after a hard 8-10 laps.. stop it at the dock and shoot it quickly. Have also used a MPi digital temp mounted to the cooling head.

 

[charles siler]

Alright guys I ordered a Scott Buche pipe for my 45 and its got a sooper long stinger and I was lookin at my CMB pipe and seen it had along stinger so while im waiting on myexpensive pipe I decided to cut the mufler off of the $25 CMB pipe to mabe get a little more out of it and found out it looks like the modd pipe check it out later Charlie