WIRE DRIVES

[gil sonsino]

Hugh the wires I will use are from a piano manufacturer and are perfectly straight and pretty hard.For the stub I use 420 stainless steel and to joined parts just low temperature silver solder that do no require any special treatment but if you like to get them oil blacked no problem.

 

[Martin Hamilton]

When using Loctite on joints preperation is key & Loctite do 7063 super clean spray specificly for cleaning the surfaces prior to bonding & then bond with 603 retainer. Gil on my tethered hydros the 1/8" wire had the couplings that were on both ends of this shaft soft soldered on (standard practice that most use) & never had a failure of the joint in 40 years running at 120mph with 3.5cc engines on 0% nitro fuel.

 

[Martin Hamilton]

I think it gets a bit confusing with silver solder, as some call soft solder or electrical type solder silver solder which has low melting point & dosnt soften the wire. Then theirs the other silver solder that has around 55% silver content that reqires a gas torch & much higher temps but gives a much stronger joint which i wouldnt use on thin gauge piano wire.

 

[hugh hargett]

I think it gets a bit confusing with silver solder, as some call soft solder or electrical type solder silver solder which has low melting point & dosnt soften the wire. Then theirs the other silver solder that has around 55% silver content that reqires a gas torch & much higher temps but gives a much stronger joint which i wouldnt use on thin gauge piano wire.

Is the silver bearing solder the softer type?

and yes I can see where prep for loctite would be an issue. I think when you get octura stubs they may have a little machining oil left down in the bore.

 

[Charles Perdue]

I have been running wire drives in my riggers sucessfully for a few years . The engine end of the wire has to be held with a collet. I use thick walled tubing for a stub shaft. I have not had any luck with locktite holding the wire in the tubing behind the nitro motors. I run the wire completely thru the tubing and use Sta-Brite silver bearing low temp solder to fasten it in place. I tin the inside of the tube the full length and the wire the full length of the tubing minus 1/2 inch on the front end of the wire, toward the engine. Use propane heat only on the tubing, not on the wire, and feed the solder from the prop end of the tube. It will not stick on the front end of the wire where it is not tinned. This allows the wire to true itself. I run 4 ball bearings on the stub shaft, two on the front and two on the rear, separated by a spacer made from brass tubing. Solder a small ring of brass tubing about 1/8 inch long, on the front end of the stub shaft to prevent the bearings from sliding off. I then drill and tap a hole for a VERY short 4-40 screw in the strut, right behind the front bearings, to keep from losing the shaft, bearings and prop in case the wire breaks or comes aloose. The stuffing box is made from 9/32 tubing matching the natural arc of the wire so that it does not touch anywhere, square it off and stop it where it goes thru the bottom of the boat. Water will not come up the stuffing tube while the boat is moving forward. Put a bearing or bushing at the rear of the stuffing tube to stabilize the wire.

Since I have been making the wire drive this way, I have not had a failure.

Charles

 

[dwilfong]

I have been running wire drives in my riggers sucessfully for a few years . The engine end of the wire has to be held with a collet. I use thick walled tubing for a stub shaft. I have not had any luck with locktite holding the wire in the tubing behind the nitro motors. I run the wire completely thru the tubing and use Sta-Brite silver bearing low temp solder to fasten it in place. I tin the inside of the tube the full length and the wire the full length of the tubing minus 1/2 inch on the front end of the wire, toward the engine. Use propane heat only on the tubing, not on the wire, and feed the solder from the prop end of the tube. It will not stick on the front end of the wire where it is not tinned. This allows the wire to true itself. I run 4 ball bearings on the stub shaft, two on the front and two on the rear, separated by a spacer made from brass tubing. Solder a small ring of brass tubing about 1/8 inch long, on the front end of the stub shaft to prevent the bearings from sliding off. I then drill and tap a hole for a VERY short 4-40 screw in the strut, right behind the front bearings, to keep from losing the shaft, bearings and prop in case the wire breaks or comes aloose. The stuffing box is made from 9/32 tubing matching the natural arc of the wire so that it does not touch anywhere, square it off and stop it where it goes thru the bottom of the boat. Water will not come up the stuffing tube while the boat is moving forward. Put a bearing or bushing at the rear of the stuffing tube to stabilize the wire.

Since I have been making the wire drive this way, I have not had a failure.

Charles

BAM right from the horses mouth.

Speaking of horses. Gust because you lead them to water dose not mean thy will drink.

But I bet thy would taste real good with that rub you sent me.

David

 

[Martin Hamilton]

One thing you must do when using Loctite on wire shafts is to drill the stub as deep as possible, the ones i make are for small electrics so the stub is small diam with .048" wire going into it. The small Octura stubs are only drilled around 5/8"-11/16" deep, the ones i make are drilled 1.25" deep & i roughen the surface of the wire & roughen down inside the stub hole.

 

[gil sonsino]

I also use the same Sta Brite solder and havent had any problem with joints too even with the upper ends of my flexshats.I do no use gas torch but a heavy duty 250W iron soldering.

 

[Martin Hamilton]

Loctite 609 is a medium strength retainer at 2290psi, 603 is a high strength retainer at 3260psi. 603 is also oil tolerant. Both 638 & 648 have a slightly stronger bond than 603 but their not oil tolerant. I believe from memory both these are around 3500psi but their also a lot thicker & not realy as suitable for the close tolerence between wire & hole diam. Again from memory 603 is suitable for tolerances from .001"-.004" where as 638 & 648 are for larger tolerances but not so suitable at lower tolerances. Most that make wire drives or flexes that i have spoken to use 603.

 

[Martin Hamilton]

Gil the silver solder that i refer to with higher temps & gas torch needed is diff stuff completally, its the stuff model engineers use when making copper boilers & other things. Basically its a brazing rod but at slightly lower temps. Typically it has around 55% silver content which makes it so expensive & you wont melt this with soldering irons.

 

[Charles Perdue]

I have been running wire drives in my riggers sucessfully for a few years . The engine end of the wire has to be held with a collet. I use thick walled tubing for a stub shaft. I have not had any luck with locktite holding the wire in the tubing behind the nitro motors. I run the wire completely thru the tubing and use Sta-Brite silver bearing low temp solder to fasten it in place. I tin the inside of the tube the full length and the wire the full length of the tubing minus 1/2 inch on the front end of the wire, toward the engine. Use propane heat only on the tubing, not on the wire, and feed the solder from the prop end of the tube. It will not stick on the front end of the wire where it is not tinned. This allows the wire to true itself. I run 4 ball bearings on the stub shaft, two on the front and two on the rear, separated by a spacer made from brass tubing. Solder a small ring of brass tubing about 1/8 inch long, on the front end of the stub shaft to prevent the bearings from sliding off. I then drill and tap a hole for a VERY short 4-40 screw in the strut, right behind the front bearings, to keep from losing the shaft, bearings and prop in case the wire breaks or comes aloose. The stuffing box is made from 9/32 tubing matching the natural arc of the wire so that it does not touch anywhere, square it off and stop it where it goes thru the bottom of the boat. Water will not come up the stuffing tube while the boat is moving forward. Put a bearing or bushing at the rear of the stuffing tube to stabilize the wire.

Since I have been making the wire drive this way, I have not had a failure.

Charles

BAM right from the horses mouth.

Speaking of horses. Gust because you lead them to water dose not mean thy will drink.

But I bet thy would taste real good with that rub you sent me.

David

Some would not drink if you held their head under water but some will use the info and learn from it. They are the ones that I put the info on here for. The others will just continuue to stumble around in the dark and grumble about their sore toes.

Have you had a chance to use the brisket recipe and the rub???

Charles

 

[dwilfong]

I have been running wire drives in my riggers sucessfully for a few years . The engine end of the wire has to be held with a collet. I use thick walled tubing for a stub shaft. I have not had any luck with locktite holding the wire in the tubing behind the nitro motors. I run the wire completely thru the tubing and use Sta-Brite silver bearing low temp solder to fasten it in place. I tin the inside of the tube the full length and the wire the full length of the tubing minus 1/2 inch on the front end of the wire, toward the engine. Use propane heat only on the tubing, not on the wire, and feed the solder from the prop end of the tube. It will not stick on the front end of the wire where it is not tinned. This allows the wire to true itself. I run 4 ball bearings on the stub shaft, two on the front and two on the rear, separated by a spacer made from brass tubing. Solder a small ring of brass tubing about 1/8 inch long, on the front end of the stub shaft to prevent the bearings from sliding off. I then drill and tap a hole for a VERY short 4-40 screw in the strut, right behind the front bearings, to keep from losing the shaft, bearings and prop in case the wire breaks or comes aloose. The stuffing box is made from 9/32 tubing matching the natural arc of the wire so that it does not touch anywhere, square it off and stop it where it goes thru the bottom of the boat. Water will not come up the stuffing tube while the boat is moving forward. Put a bearing or bushing at the rear of the stuffing tube to stabilize the wire.

Since I have been making the wire drive this way, I have not had a failure.

Charles

BAM right from the horses mouth.

Speaking of horses. Gust because you lead them to water dose not mean thy will drink.

But I bet thy would taste real good with that rub you sent me.

David

Some would not drink if you held their head under water but some will use the info and learn from it. They are the ones that I put the info on here for. The others will just continuue to stumble around in the dark and grumble about their sore toes.

Have you had a chance to use the brisket recipe and the rub???

Charles

Have not had the time for Brisket. But it works killer on steak and burgers.

After the race I will spend a weekend doing a brisket and drinking a beer next to the pool.

David

 

[Martin Hamilton]

Perhaps i need to say what i use Loctite on as im not saying use Loctite accross the board on any size motor or engine application. I use succesfully on small to medium fast electrics & on .12 ic motors in hydros, Anything larger with more power i would not use Loctite i use solder as i mentioned on my tethered ic hydros. Martin.

 

[Mike Siriani]

Will the wire drives work on an s bend like the one on the jae boats? thinking about one for a 12 boat

thanks Mike

 

[Charles Perdue]

No S bend.

 

[Mike Rappold]

What is the maximum size nitro engine a wire drive has been used successfully?

Mike

 

[Charles Perdue]

I run my 40 rigger with a Picco 45 with a wire drive. No reason that it would not work on larger engines

Charles

 

[Martin Hamilton]

Charles can i ask what type of bearings/bushings you prefer to use in the struts with wire drives ie ball bearings or other type of bushings. Martin.

 

[hugh hargett]

Charles just got in new octura wire stubs # OC6078PS. They came drilled to a depth of 1 inch. That should be plenty to grab onto. Like I suspected they are full of oil and filings. Can I give them an acetone bath? or what else other than the product before mentioned can be used to prep them properly for silver solder or loctite? These bearings are ok but some of them are hard as heck to get over the shaft whild other have a nice snug fit.

"Will the wire drives work on an s bend like the one on the jae boats? thinking about one for a 12 boat

thanks Mike"

I will not use wires on the .90 JAE fe as I think plans call for a s bend. As I advised Gil I dont know if a wire would be the ticket for a JAE unless you dont want the ski to cover you stuffing box-which I do. You can run one but im not sure how well they incorporate into the design with the ski and all. Looking at the 101 plans the motor has to be pretty close to the ski. The ski is a pretty short length for a traditional curved stuffing tube :huh: meaning I dont really know. A 16th inch wire might be forgiving in a .12 JAE.

New octura stubs on the outside toyotatruckins in the middle; which I likedcoz he haS the flatspot machined in allowing the set screw to go flush into the drive dog - reducing drag.

Need a way to balance everything :mellow:

 

[gil sonsino]

To use a wire in a big Jae due to the close location of the engine near the radio bulkhead the motor shoul be mounted too high to get the proper aligment with the strut and I doubt the boat would run well.In the Jae boats the S stuffing box is the way to have engines properly located to the C.G point. I did more tests with wires and I can say the drag compared with flexshafts is minimum optimizing the power of small blocks.

Gill

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