When CD's should act/Sport Tunnel

[RodneyPierce]

3. The engine external parts shall remain as originally manufactured within

series except as shown in Part 4

The thunder tiger series NEVER came with an OS carb.

 

[Grimracer]

Next. when it comes to sport motors you have been filled in very well by James, Mic and the rest.

Now.. barring your "situation" (read in, the behind the seen stuff we did not witness) it looks like you might want to have a chat with the CD.. Im sure you can work it out.

Grim

 

[Ted buckley]

Hey Ted been a while,

A pre race inspection is a courtesy unless motors are tagged or marked. There cannot be an offense until after a race is run. Your not illegal until you commit the act. Anyone could make changes between heats or after a pre race inspection. CD's make the assumption everyone is complying until they recognize an infraction which is what post race impounding and inspections are for. Cd's have enough to do without babysitting everyone heat by heat. If someone has let you run an illegal part one day do not assume it won't get someones attention especially if you win. There is no precedent to disqualify anyone in a full mod class post event other than measuring bore and stroke. Sounds like there are some sour grapes between a few individuals. Everyone involved needs to take a deap breath and meet face to face and decide how bad they wan't to run regulated classes. IMPBA legal is pretty easy.

Mic

Hey Mic, Nice to hear from you again. The motor has not been tagged or marked, nor any impounding or inspection gestures made. You know me from way back when - I don't like to cause trouble. Simply stated, I'm tired of hearing the same ole argument race-after-race about my Son being illegal - and none of the above is mentioned(Only when he's winning the races). Mic, if I thought my Son was doing something illegal, I'd call him out on it. I looked at the Carb. and it appears stock to me(No Markings/ect.)And if Rule#4 comes back and still say's he's illegal - then so be it. I still don't know why he'd be disqualified (Him). They were all talkin Smack afterwords - 3 against 1. So if it's something personal - then it should be taken to a differnt veneue. Not dis-qualification.

 

[Bill Britton]

O.k., I just got home from work and wanted to defend myself & my Son. First off, I just wanted Clarification on the issue. Let's assume that He does have an Illegal Carb. by (All your Definition). He should be running in the Mod. Class (I agree). However; why be dis-qualified for the Mod. Class -then? Does this boat NOT qualify for this class - then? I want you to read something for me about James' rules:

Sport Outboard Tunnel Rules

Engine and Hull Specifications

1. There shall be one engine class, Class B.

2. The Sport outboard class shall use tunnel boats only.

3. The Sport outboard tunnel class shall not lock down the engine or use any

auxiliary steering system.

4. Original carb bore and exhaust configuration will be retained as

manufactured. No modification to the carb bore or exhaust outlets will be

allowed.

5. No high performance exhaust systems (tuned pipes) will be allowed, even if

they are offered by the manufacturer of the engine. Clarification: the two

outlet exhaust / muffler chambers offered by K&B and O.S. are not

considered tuned pipes and will be allowed in the Sport outboard tunnel class.

Please pay close attention to #4. & #5. The rule doesn't say anything about putting a different CARB on the Engine - but does say that the BORE cannot be modified. Meaning that the little round hole in the throat(Can't be en-larged) to put a bigger dia. recieving bore in the throat... So, what would this mean if he did put an OS in the throat - and it fit - guys.. Why would #5. allow an OS or K&B exhaust chamber- but not an OS Carb that fit?? I don't think my Son Knowingly(Or still think he has) Violated any rule on this fact. My opinion is that - putting a remote on the carb - only aides the carb - and is illegal in this class. Otherwise, why do it. The carb that's on the Engine is perfectly mated with the bore and hasn't been modified.

1, Your not defending yourself and your son, Your trying to justify the infraction.

2, Original carb bore and exhaust configuration will be retained as manufactured. The key words here are "retained as manufactured". (Using a crayon here) that means use must use the original carb.

 

3, #5 means that the stock exhaust that comes with those motors are not considered to be tuned pipes for those motors. NOT that you can use the on any other motor and run them in the stock class.

 

Common sense is the key when reading the rules, If your looking for a loop hole you try to read between the lines and not see the forest for the trees.

 

 

[Grimracer]

Ted

One more thing Ted.. why the "Defend Yourself" Dude.. we are here to help.. Chill on the defend gig!

ROCKET AND ROLL!

Grim

 

[TUNLBOTR]

3. The engine external parts shall remain as originally manufactured within

series except as shown in Part 4

The thunder tiger series NEVER came with an OS carb.

James nailed it.

Rodney nailed it. The motor must remain stock appearing, parts match manufacturer, pass go- nogo to bore spec.

They had no right to reject it for mod class. Sport B would require the TT carb, to bore spec.

Randy Premo,

CD

World Tunnel Champs

Fall Nationals

 

[Ted buckley]

O.k. I give.... Gotta go.. Good night guys.. No hard feelings.

 

[topfuel443]

by (All your Definition). He should be running in the Mod. Class (I agree). However; why be dis-qualified for the Mod. Class -then? Does this boat NOT qualify for this class - then? I want you to read something for me about James' rules:

Ted, I can read/sense that you are getting frusterated, however, I just want to make sure you understand those rules I posted are only for the Sport Tunnel Class, and have nothing to do with the MOD class.

Based on what you say, your son should not have been dis-qualified from running in the mod class.

He should have been dis-qualified from the Sport class.

They dont have anything to do with one another. Just because the boat is disqualified for Sport class, doesnt mean you cant run it in Mod. If this happened, then that decision maker was mis-informed, or we dont have all the info.

What Rodney posted should clearly show why you cant run an OS carb on anything other than a OS engine.

Hopefully we are all on the same page, and you dont have the issues anymore at future races. Hopefully the reactions at the last race only provides ample ambition for you and your son to do the same 'whipping' with a truly legal TT, then the othe guys can get upset all they want. A "challenge" so to speak.

~ James

 

[Tim_Duggan]

You have to appreciate that not many people can get the TT to really perform, so there is an assumption that when one does go well, that there must be cheating involved. For years people were amazed at the performance I got from my TT's - most people looked surprised when they saw that it was a TT after a race.

I would just put a stock TT carb back on, then let them tech. inspect it and confirm that it's 100% legal to end the arguments once and for all. Yes, it's going to be harder to tune than the OS carb, but the performance will still be there once he gets an ear and feel for the tune.

If it's good enough to win in mod class with the OS carb, it'll still be good enough to win in Sport with the TT carb and end the arguments (provided everything else is legal that is) which will make any victory all the more sweet. I never resorted to using an OS carb on mine - I got the TT carb working.

Hint - I would use the carb that came on the last generation of TT outboards - there are a few variants over the years - and the last one is the easiest to tune.

 

[Ted buckley]

You have to appreciate that not many people can get the TT to really perform, so there is an assumption that when one does go well, that there must be cheating involved. For years people were amazed at the performance I got from my TT's - most people looked surprised when they saw that it was a TT after a race.

I would just put a stock TT carb back on, then let them tech. inspect it and confirm that it's 100% legal to end the arguments once and for all. Yes, it's going to be harder to tune than the OS carb, but the performance will still be there once he gets an ear and feel for the tune.

If it's good enough to win in mod class with the OS carb, it'll still be good enough to win in Sport with the TT carb and end the arguments (provided everything else is legal that is) which will make any victory all the more sweet. I never resorted to using an OS carb on mine - I got the TT carb working.

Hint - I would use the carb that came on the last generation of TT outboards - there are a few variants over the years - and the last one is the easiest to tune.

Thanks for the advise for my Son, But he already has the last Gen of TT.

 

[Kevin Krogness]

Well little bit affraid to show up with my TT at the MN pond now.... Well from a person that wants to race but has not and was looking foward to trying it this year...... I have however been doing some internet racing!!!! I have read the other thread and well......................

Here is what I see... Ted I just want to let you know I'm not on anyones side but your sons signature says this VS1 TT MOTOR WITH OS CARB! AND OCTURA MOUNT WAAA copy and pasted his exact words..... OS carb is not a standard carb to the TT I have both carbs and know what they look like numbers or no numbers....

The sport class to me needs to be changed to simply stock.... Take the damn thing out of the box and bolt her on and race it. I myself have a mod TT and when I get to join your pond next year I will go right to mod class because I know thats were I belong....

 

[topfuel443]

The sport class to me needs to be changed to simply stock.... Take the damn thing out of the box and bolt her on and race it. I myself have a mod TT and when I get to join your pond next year I will go right to mod class because I know thats were I belong....

ahhhhh... I think we made it a whole 6 months since that was last suggested.

I would love to run in a true stock/iroc style class. The problem is its not easily policed. If you think the sport rules are a pain, a set of 'stock' rules would be unbearable. Think about it. Teardowns, different model years/different parts, protests, etc etc the list is never ending. You would have to be an Factory Engineer (and then some) for OS, K&B, and TT just to confirm its stock. I can do plenty of mods that I guarantee no one could tell its been done. If I can do it, plenty of others can (and will) do it too. Competition brings out all the 'tricks'

The bottom line is, the current sport class works very well when adhering to the rules as written.

If someone wants to come up with a set of rules (that cant be picked apart) for a true stock class, I would be all for it and push it to the board. But it would be a separate class, the Sport class is going no where anytime soon. Its one of the most popular tunnel classes, and has been for years.

~ James

 

[Jerry Wyss]

I can tell you this, I did not remove any markings, lettering or numbers that were on that carb. It was, as plain as day which carb it is when it left my house.

 

[camaroboy383]

:lol: :lol: ...u kill me dubs... well with that being said... 20j all day..... i dont know crap about the rules,,, (i dont race),, but for sure i dont think he should have been dis-qualified from mod class....

ac

 

[Kevin Krogness]

The sport class to me needs to be changed to simply stock.... Take the damn thing out of the box and bolt her on and race it. I myself have a mod TT and when I get to join your pond next year I will go right to mod class because I know thats were I belong....

ahhhhh... I think we made it a whole 6 months since that was last suggested.

I would love to run in a true stock/iroc style class. The problem is its not easily policed. If you think the sport rules are a pain, a set of 'stock' rules would be unbearable. Think about it. Teardowns, different model years/different parts, protests, etc etc the list is never ending. You would have to be an Factory Engineer (and then some) for OS, K&B, and TT just to confirm its stock. I can do plenty of mods that I guarantee no one could tell its been done. If I can do it, plenty of others can (and will) do it too. Competition brings out all the 'tricks'

The bottom line is, the current sport class works very well when adhering to the rules as written.

If someone wants to come up with a set of rules (that cant be picked apart) for a true stock class, I would be all for it and push it to the board. But it would be a separate class, the Sport class is going no where anytime soon. Its one of the most popular tunnel classes, and has been for years.

~ James

Thats what I figured someone would say but just wish it could be a race of setup.... My buddy and I plan getting some Miss vegas dueces to race toghether to make it more fun when we go boating, after all my tunnel is now twice as fast as his v-hull!!! Well kinda, its still in pices since the last teardown.......... Just can't find the time to get her toghether...

Anyway hopefully I can participate in the races next year and meet you and your son Ted... Until then I will not complain about your son's carb

 

[RaceCraftBearings]

If you look at your son's post in the other thread he knows that in the Sport Class you have to appear Factory Stock yet he says the only mod is an OS carb. Hummm your son needs his head examined if he even thinks that would be legal in Sport! You cant have your cake and eat it too! Put the TT carb on it and if needed put a remote needle on and he is legal for Sport. For Mod class put the OS carb back on and race the mod class.

No DQ for Mod!

DQ'ed all day long for Sport!

Nuff said CLOSE the THREAD!

 

[HTV Boats]

Ted,

Sounds like all that really needs to be done is put a TT manufactured carb on and tune it and then back to smack talk. The TT is kind of not been a factor in "sport" classes. I have been at the Internats and Charleston for a few years and never saw one till this year. It was on a Mod-Vp and Otto got that thing really ripping.

James hit the nail on the head to enforcement as post race inspections are few and far between. The guys runnning races are toast by the end of the event and just not going to take the time. Ergo the "stock appearance" rule works. For you guys that want to level competition a simple weight minimun would work but again just putting guys on a scale after a race will never be done. Everyone is off to the next boat and heat. What does work is stock or non tuned exhaust. Not perfect but keeps competition in check. Setup and props still rule. The .45 outlaw-stock/sport/superstock class Charleston started has been growing down here in Florida and you have K&B, Nelson, CMB & Rossi to choose from and I don't see anyone winning on HP. Light boats and setup are working. I thought my Nelson was fast till Bill Britton took a K&B I sold run 58 on a radar and keep up with my mod setups. Boat and setup. Equilizer is a plain can muffler.

TT guys hope we see more of you at the races.

Mic

 

[Grimracer]

Mic and others..

There will likely be more TTs at the races in the future.. Because motors and parts are going to be easer to get then ever..

http://www.thundertiger.com/article/news/341.html

Stay tuned!

Grim

 

[HTV Boats]

All good, more choices will help all of us. I would have been a pooh pooh guy on Thunder Tigers, mostly due to ignorance and never running one untill Otto blew away my OS in the staightaways in Mod VP. Glad he didn't have enough time to learn how to make it turn. Looks like TT might be headed for "Tower Hobbies" catalog??????? :unsure:

Mic

 

[RodneyPierce]

all I hope is that hobbico doesnt jack the price way up........ That will suck....