What batteries for P Limited Rigger?

[HOTWATER]

sorry about the extra chatter on your thread Andy....my fault.... h34r:

 

[Mike Luszcz]

I have been using the GrimRacer Speed Packs for 2 seasons now. Performance wise, they are just as good as any of the other packs out there. I've had plenty of success racing in our club events and events I've traveled too also. Most of my packs are now 2 seasons old, and I won’t hesitate to run them again next season.

http://www.aquacraft...lipo-packs.html

Later,

Mike Ball

I would like to add... We have a dude here at work and all he does is test batteries.. (I would go NUTS doing this day in and day out) Never the less we have YET, to see ANY LIPO perform over 50C. To date we have NEVER been able to prove any lipo over 50C. Having said this right now Im not sure they exist regardless of what they say.

Grimracer 5000 packs ARE 40C no bones or BS about it. I was not going to PUMP numbers for the sake of "marketing". If the race and record results are not enough to prove performance to ya.. choose another brand!

BTY.. One single 2S 5000 Grimracer lipo IS the fastest battery in the world.. over 100mph at 7V... THAT IS PERFORMANCE! The data log on that battery was like.. add more hot sauce to the dip brother.. I aint yet starting to sweat!

Grim

Grim, Do you feel, based on the tests, the Hyperion 45c packs are really 45c? Just wondering! Mike

 

[Grimracer]

Mike. yea.. most likey..(very close anyway) When we started with our cells our goal was to chase down the G3 cells and try to match or beat the performace. We tested some of those too!..

Grim

 

[gil sonsino]

So Grim if I understood well bats with more than 40C are not worth the money spent with them? Just curious and interested as I was thinking to get some 65C packs to test on my saw boat.Thanks Gill

 

[Grimracer]

I dont know what to say.. its just what we have found. Im not going to over step other MFG claims.

Take a look at some of the fastest FE saw passes in the last few years. Talk to Brain Buaas. That the proof in the pudding.

Also.. EVEN cheap packs will feel darn good when new.. BUT.. give em a practical year or two.

Do this.. Take the cost of a SO SO pack and stack that up against your GOAL. Then try to figure out how much per run you get for your money. Now add in 24 months. Im not saying Grimracer packs will beat the rest in cost but you will find a good high quality cell IS worth your hard earned money.

Grim

 

[Andy Brown]

All good information Kent! Thanks!

 

[raptor347]

The good cells really prove themselves under heavy load and in overall performance over the life of the battery. But there are advantages in lower power classes as well.

My oldest GrimRacer packs have 3 seasons of VERY hard use. I keep all my packs numbered and logged for cycles and performance. My oldest packs are starting to fall off, they have 4-5 SAWs and 3 2-lap events on top of the heat racing cycles. When I say falling off, I mean they are at ~20 mOhm's vs the 4-5 mOhms of fresh packs (4S packs). They run fine, just not up to record trial performance anymore.

So why on earth would you carry 5K packs in a boat that only uses 2450 mah in a heat race? Well, when looking at batteries for the spec classes, capacity is one consideration. But consider this, all XXX.XX amp combinations are not the same. Let's pick a nice round number to play with, 75 amps. We have two different setups that both draw 75 amps. One pack maintains an average 4.0V/cell for the duration of the race, the other holds 3.8V/cell for the duration. 1200W vs 1140W, a 5% horsepower advantage goes to the better battery even though they are both pulling the same 75 amps. In what is essentially a stock motor class where everything is supposed to be equal, I'll take the 5% horsepower advantage!

That average voltage can be had in a couple ways: Better quality cells have a flatter discharge curve for a given capacity. Larger capacity cells mean you don't get as far into the discharge curve for any given capacity usage. This means larger capacity-lower quality cells can have discharge performance on par with high quality-lower capacity cells for the same capacity usage. Big/Good cells have an advantage.

The last problem, can you trust what's printed on the label? That really depends on who you're getting cells from. Individual experience/expectations will dictate what is acceptable performance/lifespan.

I'm with Grim on this one, I'm not going to comment on mfg claims. I will relate my experience:

The GrimRacer packs have proven themselves to me many times over for my applications. If they didn't, I'd be using something else. If I wasn't running GR's, I'd trust the Hyperion cells to be what they say they are and have the life span to make them worth the money. The last time I ran NeuPower cells, they performed very well, but not a lot of packs in the line that fit FE applications. The Dinogy cells are developing a good reputation, we'll see how they do over time. The cheap stuff make good sport packs, they wouldn't be my choice for competition if I could afford better (driving to races cost too much to go cheap on batteries).

That's my .02 (probably more). As always, YMMV. I'll go sit in my corner now.

 

[osracer]

Does sitting at a storage rate effect the life of the battery? I don't test much and only heat race my boats. With running about six races a year my packs spend most of the time at a storage level.

Should this be figured into the mix when purchasing a premium pack or a middle of the road pack?

Thanks Bill

 

[T.S.Davis]

hehe Brian and Grim wont but I will. I haven't run all of them but some of them I have.

My Thunderpower 65c packs did not live up to their hype. Less than a season before the puffing started with just spec power.

My Hyperian cells are really tough. Those have held up better than any I've owned. 3 seasons on some of those packs. No sign of their demise. I'll probably race them next season too.

I had some Polyquests that I beat the pee out of for a couple seasons. Those were early generation though. I haven't run any of their newer stuff.

I have some Volts packs that I'm still undecided about. They're supposed to be 65c. Not sure I buy it. They did inflate a touch after only one season.

My Dynogy packs I really really mistreated. Discharged them down to 3% with an amp hog. LVC was off. I'm still racing those cells. The IR is starting to climb but after the abuse I expected catastrophic failure. Planned for it even. Didn't happen.

My Grim packs are only running in our SV27r class. At that kind of draw those cells will out live the boat.

I haven't run the Turnigy packs myself but I have seen them run. Seem to hold there own racing. I can't vouch for their life expectancy.

Another thing to think about along the lines that Brian was going. If you can keep your amperage down you can get more power too. Contradicts conventional thinking. More amp more amps more amps.......more power. That's what the brain thinks. Maybe but that's not necessarily the best way. Sometimes a little less prop/diameter/pitch etc will reduce the amperage. At the lower amperage the batteries are actually going to deliver higher voltage. Volts * kv * = rpm. Rpm * total pitch gives you speed.

An example might be an LSH that runs an M545. It could be that a little less prop like an M445 will give you the same speed because you're drawing fewer amps. End result is easier on the equipment. Less amps. Less heat. Less likely to bake the motor.

It's a balancing act. There is no exact, perfect, "you must always", way to do these things. You start close and tweak as you are comfortable.

 

[lohring]

My experience with low cost packs is that they start out at low (3 mOhm) resistance, but climb to at least double that by the end of the season. That's in P spec boats that draw around 100 amps average from 5000 mah packs. I tried 4200 mah packs for a season and they didn't survive.

Lohring Miller

 

[gil sonsino]

Thanks Grim and just to testimony my 45C nanotech packs are working good with my fe rigger in the last four months(probably more than 30 charges each ) and internal resistance is still around 65 mohm.....great info guys!Thanks Gill

 

[HOTWATER]

Gill, I have been watching from behind the scenes and all I have to say here is "Awesome job on your accomplishments!"

-Kent

 

[gil sonsino]

Thanks Ken......boating is my real passion! Gill

 

[T.S.Davis]

"Passion" I'll have to remember that. My wife always calls it my disease. For which we all know there is no cure.

 

[Chilli]

My old signature stated: There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness.

 

[raptor347]

My old signature stated: There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness.

There was a line? :huh:

Must have missed that one.

 

[Grimracer]

CARP KILLER!



Grim

 

[gil sonsino]

Terry I'm blessed with a wife that supports my hobby but Chilli I must confess that this line is large in my case :lol:

 

[Chilli]

The only reason I get away with this hobby is the wife thinks the UPS guy is hot..... :lol: .

 

[HOTWATER]

Yup...with Chilli, it's much more than a hobby....the fine line is there! Lol!....Just kidding bro!

As long as John is not starting to wear brown clothing...you're all good!..hee,he!