Well, she's finally ready....

[Robert Elder]

Spoke to Joe and the sponsons should be fine. I just had a bit of toe out. All fixed up now and ready to go again

The pictures from her maiden run are up here http://www.grandrivermarinemodellers.com/Boxwood_May_6_2012.php

 

[Robert Elder]

Update: I have been running her all summer now (when I can) and she handles well but I am still not getting the speeds I see others are getting. My motor is still so tight that I have to heat it with a small torch to be able to start it with my 12v starter. The prop is the 1450 I bought from Zippkits and the strut is level with the bottom of the tub with the leading edge just touching the bottom of the ski. The stuffing tube is fine and shows no signs of excess heat from an incorrect bend. I was running 50% until my case ran out and have now changed to 40%. I have the water restricted and when it comes in from a run the head is hot but the flywheel isn't.

I have been playing with the needle settings and the amount of water to the head. Here are a few things that I think I have discovered, please correct me if I am wrong:

1) If I am too lean, after launch she never develops full power and dies about 100ft from shore

2) If I am too rich, I can't idle properly and lots of fuel comes up around the plug before I can get the glow driver off and tighten the plug up. If I keep the motor running fast enough, I can launch and run fine. The degree of rich affects the top speed. I am currently set at the edge of this point. If I lean the needle a click or two it dies when I launch it.

I have had no water all the way through to full water set at different times. I don't want to damage the motor by over heating so I am tending to more cooling. I have noticed that with full cooling, I can run about 6 or 7 laps and then the boat dies - usually coming out of a turn. My theory is that the motor cools off too much and the pinch causes the motor to die when the fuel leans a bit in the turn. I currently have a bit of water going to the head and can run a good 15 laps before I need to bring her in for fuel.

Suggestions? Does it just take a really long time to break in a NR 5port?

 

[RodneyPierce]

Robert, Nova's do take some time to break in, but chances are your not getting the motor hot enough. You will do more damage to the motor by running it to cool then you ever will by getting it "hot". the hotter the motor runs, the more fuel we feed it which in turn ads more lubrication. The more fuel, the more oil. Running them too cold requires you to lean on the needle to get heat in them, which means less fuel, less oil.

The boat is most likely dying after 6 or 7 laps coming out of a turn because the boat is starving for fuel. Are you running a single plastic tank, with no hopper tank? If so, I bet it has about 1/2 tank of fuel left each time it dies right? Its leaning out because the fuel is being pulled away from the pickup in the corner. Put a metal tank in it with a built in hopper from Walt Barney, OR add a small plastic hopper tank to the boat, and I bet you dying issues go away.

 

[kesjeff]

That sounds great. I need to build one of these too. What is the difference between the 5 port and 7 port nova Rossi. Seems to be a big price difference. Is it worth the money or do a go motor to start.

 

[Glenn Quarles]

Update: I have been running her all summer now (when I can) and she handles well but I am still not getting the speeds I see others are getting. My motor is still so tight that I have to heat it with a small torch to be able to start it with my 12v starter. The prop is the 1450 I bought from Zippkits and the strut is level with the bottom of the tub with the leading edge just touching the bottom of the ski. The stuffing tube is fine and shows no signs of excess heat from an incorrect bend. I was running 50% until my case ran out and have now changed to 40%. I have the water restricted and when it comes in from a run the head is hot but the flywheel isn't.

I have been playing with the needle settings and the amount of water to the head. Here are a few things that I think I have discovered, please correct me if I am wrong:

1) If I am too lean, after launch she never develops full power and dies about 100ft from shore

2) If I am too rich, I can't idle properly and lots of fuel comes up around the plug before I can get the glow driver off and tighten the plug up. If I keep the motor running fast enough, I can launch and run fine. The degree of rich affects the top speed. I am currently set at the edge of this point. If I lean the needle a click or two it dies when I launch it.

I have had no water all the way through to full water set at different times. I don't want to damage the motor by over heating so I am tending to more cooling. I have noticed that with full cooling, I can run about 6 or 7 laps and then the boat dies - usually coming out of a turn. My theory is that the motor cools off too much and the pinch causes the motor to die when the fuel leans a bit in the turn. I currently have a bit of water going to the head and can run a good 15 laps before I need to bring her in for fuel.

Suggestions? Does it just take a really long time to break in a NR 5port?

Robert, yes Rodney is correct. It sounds like you are sometimes running the motor too cool...and that will damage the motor. The reason it quits after a few lapss with full water is that you have to lean it down too much to get it to go. If it is starting to get cool up there, I would be taking the water completely off and just make sure you have the needle rich enough. If it makes in from a good run and it is to hot to touch the head for at least 2 seconds, then add a small amount of water cooling to it. If you can touch the head for a few seconds, then it is perfect, if you can hold your finger on the head for longer then lean it down a bit.

Yes these motors will take a good while to break in if you do it right....it should continue to get better and better over the first couple gallons of fuel. If the bend in the stuffing tube is not correct it will KILL the performance!!!!! It doesn't matter if you can see any signs of heat, if there is extra drag then you are losing speed! Just pll the stuffing tube out, bend one correctly and reinstall it...you have put a lot of time and money into the project so far you might as well make it right.

Good luck, and feel free to call if you have any questions,

Glenn

 

[Glenn Quarles]

That sounds great. I need to build one of these too. What is the difference between the 5 port and 7 port nova Rossi. Seems to be a big price difference. Is it worth the money or do a go motor to start.

Both of these motors are great. If money is a factor, I would suggest the 5 port, if money is not really a factor, and you like your boats setup for the max RPM, go with the 7 port (the 5 ports have a bit more grunt, while the 7 ports will turn a bit higher rpm). I sell a lot more 5 ports than 7 ports if that helps any.

Glenn

 

[kesjeff]

Glenn,

What would a 5 port .21 cost out the door with header and pipe? How about the .12 one also?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[anthony_marquart]

the 5p is a fine motor. I have gotten mine to 69 mph.. I have friends that have spent 2X the money and are running low 70s... those last couple mph are expensive

 

[Robert Elder]

Rodney, I have a tank from Walt so it's not likely that but thanks for the suggestion.

I will take the water off and go a few clicks richer on the needle and try that next time out. It might have a gallon of fuel through it so far but no more than that.

Glen, I am pretty sure my stuffing tube is fine. With the plug out of the engine, there isn't really much difference in feel between spinning the motor at the flywheel without the flex shaft attached or spinning the prop with the flex shaft attached.

I expect you are right in that I haven't been running it hot enough so I will try that on Monday and report back.

Thanks.

 

[RodneyPierce]

Robert, good deal!! keep us posted my friend

 

[Johnny Brown]

The Nova Mills need to run 250-270 degres under a load tank full at a time, then complete cool down then start the cycle over again or it will never break in.And they are no fun untill they start up and run with no problems.PITA but it takes time,and when there broke in omg you think that`s why I bought a Nova.I actually put a telemtry Rx in my rigger and get

live while running temps and it`s awesome.And with no cowling I have yet to put water thru it for cooling,it`s a beast.JB

 

[Glenn Quarles]

Glenn,

What would a 5 port .21 cost out the door with header and pipe? How about the .12 one also?

Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff, the 5 port is $215, header is $20, I have several different pipes (prices are $45, $60 and $65), shipping is $14.

The .12 motors are $165.

Thanks!

Glenn

 

[Robert Elder]

Update from Monday's session.

1st run. Launched clean and ran great. Did about a dozen laps and at least as fast as I have ever seen with this boat - maybe faster. After it cooled I tried again. This time it died shortly after launching. When I got it back I opened the needle up about three clicks and tried again. This time I got about about half a lap in and it died. Opened the needle another few clicks. Ran another dozen laps and it was reving more and was noticeably faster. The next launch would see it die about 50 ft out. Once I got it back I opened the needle another few clicks and got about 3/4 of a lap in before it died. Opened the needle another few clicks and got 7 or 8 laps in and probably the fastest ones ever.

When I could get a reading, the head temp opposite the exhaust port was 180 off the first run, 230 off a later run. Went through three plugs during the sessions. None were smashed. The last coil was pulled a little in all of them and the first plug I changed (which had a number of runs on it) was brown on the metal surface around the coil. The other two died too quickly to have much discoloration.

I can now start the engine without preheating the head (woo whoo!) but it seems like the needle setting that it needs to run successfully just keeps changing. Always richer. The best runs were when I couldn't get the engine to fast idle reliably because it was too rich but that setting just kept changing. I still have the water turned off.

Too much time spent retrieving after the first run for my liking. Please tell me that this will get better soon

 

[Terry Keeley]

Sounds like crap in the fuel system somewhere, I'd flush the tank and needle...

 

[Glenn Quarles]

Update from Monday's session.

1st run. Launched clean and ran great. Did about a dozen laps and at least as fast as I have ever seen with this boat - maybe faster. After it cooled I tried again. This time it died shortly after launching. When I got it back I opened the needle up about three clicks and tried again. This time I got about about half a lap in and it died. Opened the needle another few clicks. Ran another dozen laps and it was reving more and was noticeably faster. The next launch would see it die about 50 ft out. Once I got it back I opened the needle another few clicks and got about 3/4 of a lap in before it died. Opened the needle another few clicks and got 7 or 8 laps in and probably the fastest ones ever.

When I could get a reading, the head temp opposite the exhaust port was 180 off the first run, 230 off a later run. Went through three plugs during the sessions. None were smashed. The last coil was pulled a little in all of them and the first plug I changed (which had a number of runs on it) was brown on the metal surface around the coil. The other two died too quickly to have much discoloration.

I can now start the engine without preheating the head (woo whoo!) but it seems like the needle setting that it needs to run successfully just keeps changing. Always richer. The best runs were when I couldn't get the engine to fast idle reliably because it was too rich but that setting just kept changing. I still have the water turned off.

Too much time spent retrieving after the first run for my liking. Please tell me that this will get better soon

Robert, yeah like Terry said, check your fuel system for junk. If that looks good, then it sounds like you may be running a bit lean still. The motors should not really "idle"...they should be easy to keep running, but if they will sit there and "idle" for an extended periord then it is most likely too lean to run under full load. I forgot, did I do the carb mod on your motor?

It sounds like it is getting there, just stick with it.

If it continues to give you problems, send me a short video of you starting it and getting it in the water. I can often tell what is wrong much easier that way than just reading the words.

Glenn

 

[Robert Elder]

Yes you did.

I am using an OS 46 remote needle to control the flow. I checked and blew through the lines and removed the needle value. The needle had some residue on the end so I have carefully cleaned it and put everything back together. I am at 3 1/2 turns out.

 

[MattMurany]

Robert,

If the motor is still tight (gets stuck at the top) make sure when you start it that you have to run the throttle to keep it running. If not the motor is too lean. If you are not running water to the motor, with it being that rich the motor will get hot with a load on it and run fine in the water. Also when running the boat in the water if it doesnt have a little hicup in it during break in your too lean. Dont hold it wide open either, if you have to the motor is too rich and not building enough heat. But also if it goes out there and revs way up then its too lean. A little hicup and run the throttle up and down.

Thanks Matt

 

[Robert Elder]

Update:

I got a few runs in today and they were much better. Smooth, decent speed and no retrieving with the fishing rod (yah!!). I am a bit on the rich side still but the temps are good and I no longer have to preheat the engine to get it to start. The crap around the needle must have been really screwing me up before.

Thanks for your suggestions and hopefully I will still have a few more times out before the season is done up here.

 

[anthony_marquart]

Not sure about all the advice..,.. but in my opinion you should definitely be running real rich and wide open,.. as long as you are not lean this is how I would recommend doing a break in cycle. you want to run hot and with lots of fuel blowing through for lube.. hence the no water and real rich.. for me,.. about 10 tanks like that,.. then add a LITTLE water. not full flow for sure.. lean out and let it eat!

 

[RodneyPierce]

I will run my new motors rich, but not to rich that it wont pipe up. Start with a low load prop, and on the pipe but krackling rich. I will then just continue to run it with the same needle setting until it starts to clean out on its own. Usually takes quite a few tanks. MUST have heat in the engine though, or breakin will take FOREVER