Vacuum Pumps and vacuum bagging equipment/supplies

[Mike Cathey]

I'm making the leap away from building wood boats and am going to carbon fiber for the durability and weight savings. The molds for the first boat will be done in a week or so and I need to pull the trigger on the vacuum bagging equipment.

What capacity (in CFM) vacuum pump do you have to have to do 1/8th scale and 1/6th scale hulls and cowlings in a carbon fiber layup?

Are rotary vane or diaphram pumps better?

Also, where is the best place to get the associated fittings, valves, hose, ect.?

Thanks, Mike

 

[Ray Sametz]

http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=4828 B) ..............==={}

 

[Mike Cathey]

http://www.acpsales....re.php?cat=4828 B) ..............==={}

Thanks Ray. I assume you use their products. Which of their pumps do you use? A boating buddy who is really talented at this is teaching me the whole mold making and carbon fiber techniques. He has a pump for large parts like hulls and cowling and a small pump for small parts like radio boxes and even motor mounts.

 

[Terry Keeley]

Good deal Mike, you'll never mess with that naturally occurring cellulose product again!

Don't waste your time with hobby products, the pump is the heart of your system and the only name you need to know is GAST.

An oiless, rotary vane unit works best. A common style is the 0523, they come up on Fleebay all the time.

Specs are on their site: http://www.gastmfg.c...sors_pumps.aspx

Here's mine I've been using for 20 years with little or no maintenance:

If you poke around in my gallery there's lots of bagging stuff...

 

[Mike Rappold]

I made the plunge into the composite world this winter for building an outrigger for the same reasons you mention. I ended up going with a diaphram pump. It is pretty quite and no oil. I can pull 24-25 in Hg with it. It is a Gast DOA series. I found it on eBay for good price ~$130.

I have been getting the vacuum bagging films and related from ACP too. I like their high stretch bag film and the super release blue nylon peel ply the best so far. I also get their brearther cloth. I found to get the best results I have to double up on the layers of breather to prevent from getting over saturated.

For Epoxy, found some good prices and variety of brands at http://www.jamestown...rportal/main.do. I am using the MAS brand. It is clear and little to no oder. Wets out cloth nicely. The hardeners can be mixed to vary cure time it needed.

Another site to look at is http://www.freemansu...oolingMater.htm. They have some neat liquid tooling products. Watch some of the videos. Anyway for mold reinforcement I mn using their 1010 high density epoxy paste ( http://www.freemansu...1010HighDen.htm ) in some areas to create "ribs" on the mold to make it stronger.

It has been a fun learning curve.

Mike

 

[Jim Caldwell]

Once you have the pump try Infusion, you won't go back, much easier and higher fiber content.

Video here http://www.easycompo...ibre-Parts.aspx

I just tried it on a 5 by 20" hatch 3 layers of 10 oz using US Composites resin 600 cps with medium hardner hot water heated to 95 degrees before mixing and molds at 85 derees (heat lamps).

It infused in about 20 seconds! with no pressure drop, clamped off the resin and let the pump run for 6 hours.

The pot of resin went off in 15 min's and the pump stopped drawing little bits of resin in 1 1/2 hours.

No muss no fuss!

Infusion mat here

http://www.carbonfiberglass.com/Vacuum-Bagging-VARTM-Infusion-Materials/flow-media

Have you tried this yet Terry?

 

[Douglas P Shepherd]

INFUSION IS THE ONLY WAY TO FLY! nO MATCH ....

 

[Terry Keeley]

Once you have the pump try Infusion, you won't go back, much easier and higher fiber content.

Video here http://www.easycompo...ibre-Parts.aspx

I just tried it on a 5 by 20" hatch 3 layers of 10 oz using US Composites resin 600 cps with medium hardner hot water heated to 95 degrees before mixing and molds at 85 derees (heat lamps).

It infused in about 20 seconds! with no pressure drop, clamped off the resin and let the pump run for 6 hours.

The pot of resin went off in 15 min's and the pump stopped drawing little bits of resin in 1 1/2 hours.

No muss no fuss!

Infusion mat here

http://www.carbonfib...ials/flow-media

Have you tried this yet Terry?

Haven't tried infusion yet, some good tips in that vid for any type layup!

 

[tnrcboatracer]

More pics of my pump system in my gallery. best to use a tank and a pressure switch.

 

[Jim Caldwell]

Pump was the 2.5 cfm $100.00 Harbor Freight model pulling 24 inches or 12 psi.

Pulled vacuum for 15 min's before releasing the resin to compact the fibers and remove air in the tows.

I used 6mil drop cloth to seal the mold. DON"T use drop cloth it has microscopic leaks.Use reg. bagging film not the stretchy kind because it will not bridge the infusion mat it will shrink around the channels.

I didn't have the Infusion mat so I used Vinel window screen 4 layers 90 45 90 45 to acheive the .040 thickness of the infusion mat.

 

[Mike Cathey]

Thanks for all the info fellas. I got really tired of going into the first turn in the roostertails and hearing the whack and wondering if it was my one of my wood or lightweight glass boats that was going to have the big hole in it. They are just too much work to get creamed in a heart beat. I saw one my buddies carbon boats that is helping me kick the rudder up on a buoy and hit the transom of an 8" Livingston chase boat at speed. The model was OK (once we pulled it out of the back of the chase boat) but the Livingston had 2 big holes in it where the model's sponsons punched through.

 

[Terry Keeley]

Thanks for all the info fellas. I got really tired of going into the first turn in the roostertails and hearing the whack and wondering if it was my one of my wood or lightweight glass boats that was going to have the big hole in it. They are just too much work to get creamed in a heart beat. I saw one my buddies carbon boats that is helping me kick the rudder up on a buoy and hit the transom of an 8" Livingston chase boat at speed. The model was OK (once we pulled it out of the back of the chase boat) but the Livingston had 2 big holes in it where the model's sponsons punched through.

The tubs on my 40 & 90 heat boats are going into their 15th year and my SAW boat has taken many tumbles at 110+.

It's amazing stuff if done right.