Turbine Scales.

[Tall Fella]

Hello everybody .

This is a reply from Australia . Some years ago a Hobby Dealer in Australia offered and possibly still does had a section on his WEBSITE for Jet Engines listed for sale . THE PRICE THAT I REMEMBER IS $AUS. 5500.00 FOR EACH Engine . THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THAT WAS REALISED OVER HERE IN Australia . APART FROM WATER IS THAT THEY ARE " EXTERNAL COMBUSTION " ? . WHICH SEVERELY GOES AGAINST WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE INSURANCE POLICY THAT THE AMPBA - Australian Model Power Boat Association has . Hopefully this clears up some of the other issues relating to Jet Engines .

Regards

Ian Baas

Tall Fella Racing

Australia

 

[Todd Fleury]

A turbine engine is actually an internal combustion engine. Although it does not have a piston, there is still combustion inside of the turbine.

 

[dschigoda]

A turbine engine is actually an internal combustion engine. Although it does not have a piston, there is still combustion inside of the turbine.

But a turbine engine is not a reciprocating engine.

 

[Todd Fleury]

No where in the NAMBA or IMPBA rule book does it state reciprocating engine

 

[Gale54]

One more bad thing is a gulp of water and that engine is done. If I was going to spend that much on a boat I am going to be able to get in it.

 

[Al Waters]

I am curious as I get asked about turbines in R/C applications. What is the displacement of a turbine engine?

Thanks,

Al Waters

 

[Doug Smock]

That's where it gets a little tricky Al. It doesn't compute, but I have a feeling you knew that.

IIRC the best comparison we can do is by converting KW to HP. In a conversation with Mr. Fleury I think we came up with 6kw, just over 8hp

 

[Scott Miller]

I am curious as I get asked about turbines in R/C applications. What is the displacement of a turbine engine?

Thanks,

Al Waters

Jet engines are usually rated by their thrust output or shaft HP. You wont see displacement #.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Years ago, several of us were talking about building turbine powered scale hydros. We did some computing and found that the then available Wren turbine/gearbox units from MHZ were comparable to the then fairly new G260 in power and RPM. The cost, however, was way beyond what most of us could handle and, due to the size of the turbine/gearbox assembly, the boats would have needed to be full 1:6 scale to fit the power plant.

 

[Al Waters]

Doug,

you are on it my friend.

In NAMBA, allowable engines are separated (minimum and maximum) by displacement in both gas and nitro. Not by hp or pounds of thrust.

Thanks,

Al Waters

 

[JimZaremski]

yeah, they're expensive and can't run under any class, but if I had F-You money I'd still build one because turbine.

I am curious as I get asked about turbines in R/C applications. What is the displacement of a turbine engine?

Thanks,

Al Waters

a Brayton-cycle gas turbine is a continuous-flow engine, so it doesn't have any static displacement like a piston engine. The only thing similar to displacement you could specify would be peak airflow in cu. ft./min. and that would be incredibly easy to game. And especially hard to measure; at least with a piston engine you measure bore and stroke and calculate displacement from there.

you'd almost have to do like Thunderboat and just say "you can use this engine and only this engine."

 

[Todd Fleury]

Housing Diameter:83 mm (3.27")

DimensionsL x W x H approx. 375mm, x 100mm x 160mm (14.8" x 3.9" x 6.3")

Total weight including gearbox:2930 g (103 oz)

Weight of accessories:650g (ECU, Valve, Gastank, Battery, Wires and Tubing) (23 oz)

Idle GG-Turbine speed50000 RPM

Maximum GG-Turbine speed:175000 RPM

Compressor Pressure Ratio2:1GG-Turbine EGT:480- 730°C (896 - 1346 F)

Mass Flux0.14 kg/sIdle Output Shaft Speed6000 RPM

Maximum Output Shaft Speed (depending on gearbox version)

19000- 35000 RPMEGT:300 - 360°C (572 - 680 F)

Power-shaft speed:19,000 - 22,000 RPM

Power:8 kW (11.2 hp)

Fuel:Kerosene Jet A1, PetroleumLubrication5% Synthetic Turbine Oil in Fuel

Fuel consumption at full power:260 ml/min

Fuel consumption at idle:90 ml/min

Service Interval50 hours

Drive system Custom water-cooled gearbox

 

[Todd Fleury]

And another thing, the jetcat turbine engines actually run a glow plug.

 

[Don Ferrette]

I think the turbines are cool as hell and if my pockets were deep enough I'd love to build a scale powered with one just to have it. With that being said one needs to ask how viable a class like this would be and honestly it would impact an extremely small percentage of model boaters at the very best. I could build a couple of big block twins for just what the driveline (turbine, gearbox, etc.) would cost. Personally I can't see the justification for creating a class for these when the astronomical costs would keep it out of the hands of the vast majority of model boaters. On top of that the insurance underwriting comes to mind as I know a couple guys who fly turbine jets and the resrictions the AMA places on them are rather tight.............

 

[Todd Fleury]

Not looking for a oval racing class. Just looking to run it at SAW events.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Not looking for a oval racing class. Just looking to run it at SAW events.

To be elligible for SAW or Oval events it needs to be an official class.

 

[julianconde]

Not looking for a oval racing class. Just looking to run it at SAW events.

To be elligible for SAW or Oval events it needs to be an official class.

so do we have a Steam Class just currious beacause its in the IMPBA records..

I have flown and currently own 3 Turbo jet engines 2 Jetcat P80's (18 LBS of thrust each) and a Jet Central F100 Falcon (22 LBS of thrust) i have alot of experience with them. the tubines i have cost easy for all 3 over 5k.

Don Ferrette is correct if you was to stuff a turbine boat imagine it sucking water in while its idle's at 55k or at full RMP over 120K geard down by the gear box it would damage it for sure. now i will tell you this you can fly turbine models in the rain been there done that in bowlingreen rain caught us while my Jet was airborne it flew greatand landed safely ;-)

the price is way out of some peoples reach and you wont get to build the class unless you have deep pockets also it you have a collision with another jet powered boat or hit the bank it can cause a fire or a explosion and kero does burn very easy specially when your turbine rear exhaust cone is extremely hot and any fuel touches it it will catch on fire.. Also theres alot to a turbine than you can imagine its more detailed than running a Twin theres alot that can go wrong. tubines are fun but a pain in the azz also the fuel consumption makes it a issue as well you think a Twin drinks nitro a Turbine is far worse. Safety is a huge concerned your basically either flying or driving a Bomb.

its a great exibition boat thats about it and tells people you have deep pockets thats the bottom line.

these are my 3 Turbines i currently have

Julian

 

[Keith Halverson]

From a new guys perspective, It would definitely breathe new life back into the hobby world if there was a Turbine Unlimited class allowed in years to come..

Once the word got out, spectator count would be way up,,and with that, new life.

Expensive?,,very much so. That price would have to be accessible by more than 1 or 2. No chance of that any time soon unfortunately.

Safety for racer and spectator would have to be seriously addressed. Not a easy or cheap task just on the fire aspect alone.

Not a insurmountable task,,but not a cheap or easy one either. Again,,it's all about $$$.

 

[Doug Smock]

Don,

Todd would like to be able to run his boat for records.

We have classes on the books now "for records only".

These boats, if I'm not mistaken, would follow the gas scale hull rules. What would have to be addressed is the engine rules, any accompanying safety rules, and of course any insurance issues.

He is just looking for some serious conversation about it at the BOD level. "No" without some discussion doesn't set well with any of us.

Personally, they are too rich for my blood, but I'd love to see these boats eligible to run for records if we could pull it off. If not, at least we can say we tried.

 

[Todd Fleury]

I have been able to get the boat to 118 mph, but that was with a voltron gps.