The electric race course - time to rethink?

[Kevin Whitehead]

That problem with people racing in too many back-to-back classes is the result of offering a High Points Championship trophy based on total points from all classes.

It's kind of nuts, driving people to enter virtually every class. It even drives the top level racers to enter entry-level classes (like N1 mono or hydro) to pick up the easy points by whupping on the novices.

The entering of too many classes then causes more problems like you mentioned about Mercy Minutes. Trying to manage all of the batteries/chargers on only the few minutes between heats is rectic, especially as higher cell-count classes become more popular.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Outcast,

I don't know who you are and I'm not going to spar with you about this. We'll be running 1/8 scale in MI next year regardless, going on is pointless.

I'll leave it at that.

Paul.

 

[CySlyde]

ok... my 2 cents. I am planning on going to the MICUP next year, but i have heard from several ppl that it was a real cluster p***k.... part of the reason i have decided to go though is to watch pauls boat... if it the one he was showing earlier it'll be schuet ;D

however what would be the real problems with having two courses set at larger venues, one inside the other??? other than longer set to up i don't see many. hey it could be fun! also maybe it's time to rethink the rules onthat high points total, and limit it to certin classes.... I/E let the beginner have thier own fun, sooner or later they'll move up if they want to, however I'f my first race i was womped on by someone with 5 yrs exp that should be in pro classes, i wouldnt want to race much after taht... part of the reason i sold my HPI two months after buying it, too many pros racing in a beginners class! at the LHS

just what i'm seing in these posts!

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Probably, any gas or nitro racer is going to find an electric race a little freaky, the first time you see one.

While there was some "clustering" at the race, that may be ironed out next year. And it didn't make the race too unbearable to watch. It just needs to make adjustments to make it run as smoothly as other electric races such as Toronto (they are like a Swiss watch!).

I too, don't see why a course inside of another course wouldn't allow the faster classes to go BIG while maintaining the smalll course for the low-powered classes.

The High Points format should be a simple problem to solve, except even bringing it up causes some (usually the same racers that enter every class) to go into a frenzy.

BTY, what is an HPI?

 

[brooks93]

paul it michigan going to run the 1/8 mile for sure? that would be sweet..

outcast I see your point with the larger course with smaller boats.. the only boats I see that wouldn't work with the 1/8 mile course would be N1 mono and Hydro.. everything else would have the speed to make use of the 1/8 mile course..

Did you come to the CAFE Cup.. It was ran pretty smooth.

 

[Ron Olson]

Freaky, nah, just different than what I'm used to. I've been to a big time Scale boat Regatta and that was slow but it takes a lot of skill to do what they do plus they put a lot more work into the detail of their boats. Those MiCup racers put up with some really lousy weather on Saturday but persevered through it. That was the only day that I went, had to work on Sunday when it was better there.

I was surprised at how few people were there though considering that it was a National event race. We had about that many show up at the Fun Run last Saturday!

I might have to make the trip again next year.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Believe it or not, what you witnessed at Lansing was the largest turnout electric race of '03.

That should give you a good idea on how many people put up with all of the added hassles involved in trying to race electric. It is relatively so much easier to get speed with gas or nitro that it would not suprise me if there was several dozen gassers/nitros for every volthead out there.

But, what you see now is an infant of a power source. It is only a matter of time before technology improves and speed and runtimes expand greatly. Slowly but surely electric power is dawning. Internal combustion is going the other way.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

paul it michigan going to run the 1/8 mile for sure? that would be sweet..

outcast I see your point with the larger course with smaller boats.. the only boats I see that wouldn't work with the 1/8 mile course would be N1 mono and Hydro.. everything else would have the speed to make use of the 1/8 mile course..

Did you come to the CAFE Cup.. It was ran pretty smooth.

That was 1/8 scale size hydros not 1/8 mile oval.

I was at the CAFE Cup. I did go good, especially considering it was the first running. Points tracking and final tabulation was exceptional. Except the High Points tally.

My opinion is: Just drop that bogus High Points stuff altogether and not have to worry about adding it up.

One small problem did show up there. It wasn't a management problem but rather a racer problem. It could become a big problem at future races, at any venue.

With large cell-count offshore becoming more popular, there needs to be better battery/charger management.

There was too many times that everyone else was put on hold between heats, waiting on people to get large numbers of cells fully charged. It is something that the racers need to do in insuring that they themselves have the charging capacity to turn around the cells they need in the same alloted time as everyone else.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hey Guys,

I personally just run what I feel comfy doing, for me that's 5 or 6 classes a day depending on the venue. Even with a high cell count boat I had no problem with charge time. There was once though when I planned on a second heat and everone ran together. :

As for high points, even though I took it I was no way gunning for it. Personnaly I could take it or leave it, wouldn't change my racing 5 or 6 classes a day.

Paul.

 

[Ron Olson]

The High Point award seemed to be for the Manufacturers or Hobby Shop owners. Chris Fine and Rumrunner Racing brought literally truckloads of boats for competition. With that many boats on hand, they could throw away half of the races and still beat the regular people. Joe Racer hasn't got an ice cubes chance in Hell to compete against that kind of money and equipment.

 

[sjslhill]

I would agree with that....it's for nothing more than selling parts. That's kinda harsh, but that's how I see it. But the Midwest area has pulled away from many of these hotdog sponsored teams and shown that other racers can join in and have fun. Paul is not sponsored.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Paul is not sponsored.

Wanna bet?

 

[sjslhill]

Wanna bet what? That Paul is sponsored? Who are you anyway...why hide behind some goofy name?

Paul is not sponsored.

Wanna bet?

 

[brooks93]

paul was pick up by fine design.. Not that there is anything wrong with it.. I wish I could get a sponsor but, I know I haven't been around long enough or ran enough races to even thing about it..

 

[Mike Hughes]

As to the high point, something that we did in dist 8 this year for nitro was to limit the amount of boats counted. We went with the 3 highest scored boats for the year. Over the long season it came down to 5 people that were all within 300 pts of each other. Some of the them were the run every class type, but others were not. This made it very exciting to watch as the season progress. I think the lead switched hands 5 times with 3 people over 9 races. I am not sure it would work for a single event for 3 boats. I do think that if you limit the number of boats, it would be a better contest. It gets rid of the "ye who runs the most wins".

Mike

 

[CySlyde]

BTY, what is an HPI?

a manufacturer of rc cars... had an electric touring sedan.. was lodas of fun at the house and in the driveway but when i went to race there were a group of guys who had like every part with backups and i'll give them credit good racers, sounds like the rum runners and fine design teams... neways it got old being so outclassed way too fast. plus outa the four of them there was really only one of them who would stop and lend a hand or some advice when you needed it. the other three were too busy working on thier other cars for the next race.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hello Guys,

Before the sponsored thing gets out of control I will say right now I get NOTHING, ABSOLUTLY NOTHING for free. Every piece of equipment I have I paid retail for with the exception of 2 speed controls which I got a DISCOUNT on and it's not much. So if you want to call me sponsored have at it. Do you guys know I buy my batteries from Steve Hill? Do you know I pay the same price as everyone else? When I travel it's out of my pocket, the boats that I run are my choice.

The biggest advantage might be from the sharing of information between the team members. But if you've been around me at a race you know I'll always take time to help someone, I go so far as to let anyone go through my boats and give them my exact setup. Being so open cost me a round of racing in Ohio. I love the hobby and racing and hanging out with everyone is the best.

Paul.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Steve,

I changed my user name so you don't get all worked up and blow a gasket or something.

Kevin Whitehead

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

The High Point award seemed to be for the Manufacturers or Hobby Shop owners. Chris Fine and Rumrunner Racing brought literally truckloads of boats for competition. With that many boats on hand, they could throw away half of the races and still beat the regular people. Joe Racer hasn't got an ice cubes chance in Hell to compete against that kind of money and equipment.

An excellent observation, Ron. From outisde the electric racing community so it is an unbiased one, too!

Just bringing the subject up in electric circles is taboo. There will likely be howls of "Oh no, not politics!". The choice is: Get involved in some "politics" or let others make the decisions for you.

I wonder how many potential electric racers have seen a race (which there are already too few of), seen the advantages that a few "teams" have, and decided that it was not worth the time and effort?

When did this team thing start in electric racing? It is not a carry-over from nitro. I raced nitro (IMPBA) long ago and there was nothing like this. I watched the IMPBA Nitro Internats on one day this year, there was nothing that I saw that compared to this.

I see many people selling many different products to the nitro racers but, I don't see them coming into races with the cards stacked overwhelmingly in their favor.

It seems like a very "short run" view to stiffle competition where as improving competition will not only increase participants but also insure that they stay for the "long run".

 

[Climate Boatworks]

Amen!