The Electric Class Structure

[crowebar]

Paul, I totally Agree. This is Steves business and he does his homework. We are fortunate that he shares his knowlege with us with batterys.

2600's are awesome and are a decendant of the 2200's. Batteries get better. I hope the Lipolys will follow the same trend. I can't imagine they wouldn't.

Steve, My point was you said "we" high buck racers were complaining about money or the cost of this stuff. I complain about everything, so do you! But I don't stand in the way of something good. Lipoly's seem to be the case. I have talked to Lipoly airplane guys who have 200 cycles on their lipoly packs, not the park flyers, the big ones. They are still going strong. Seems like a pretty good value to me. If the cells of the future are even better????? No complaining here, just happy thoughts.

Dick

 

[Trent Hare]

Hi gents,

Haven't been here in a while, but wanted to chime in a bit.

While it's not the most popular solution, I feel that "battery weight" is probably the simplest (and arguably the most logical) solution to something that could be a huge can of worms later on.

Doug and myself bantered back and forth on this idea a year or two ago when thinking about some micro class rules.

I like it because it simply sidesteps technological advances and keeps the restriction focused on the "mass of the fuel tank" and not a lot of calculations of "at rest" or "average" voltages.

I do however, strongly feel that it would be wise to keep the 40v or thereabouts voltage cap for safety.

Respectfully,

Trent Hare

 

[wow]

Hi gents,
Haven't been here in a while, but wanted to chime in a bit.

While it's not the most popular solution, I feel that "battery weight" is probably the simplest (and arguably the most logical) solution to something that could be a huge can of worms later on.

Doug and myself bantered back and forth on this idea a year or two ago when thinking about some micro class rules.

I like it because it simply sidesteps technological advances and keeps the restriction focused on the "mass of the fuel tank" and not a lot of calculations of "at rest" or "average" voltages.

I do however, strongly feel that it would be wise to keep the 40v or thereabouts voltage cap for safety.

Respectfully,

Trent Hare

Trent,

If you followed your suggestion...(not saying your incorrect) LiPoly would completely take over the hobby. (I think it will anyway, not that it matters)

thanks

Steve

 

[Trent Hare]

Yes, I have to agree that the weight advantage of the Li-Poly cells would be a serious advantage moving from older (heavier) technologies.

Unfortuntely, since technology never sleeps I guess it would boil down to a decision of whether you wanted to "re-do" cell classes each year or two in "steps" so to keep up with technology, or biting the bullet and adopting a rule that will work no matter what improvements technology may bring.

I'm not the smartest cookie in the jar, but I can't really think a better way (right now) than the battery weight limit.

Well... The only other thing that *may* work - is to do the electrical equivilent of a restrictor plate (ala Nascar). A large commercially available fuse in-line with the battery. The idea being 50 amps for what is now the 6 cell classes / 75 amps replaces 8 cells/ 100 amps for 12 cells etc. So the battery voltage becomes irrelevent and the weight may not even matter (that much anyway). Who knows...

Fuses I'm Referrng to:

And the Holder:

 

[Very interesting]

Hi gents,
Haven't been here in a while, but wanted to chime in a bit.

While it's not the most popular solution, I feel that "battery weight" is probably the simplest (and arguably the most logical) solution to something that could be a huge can of worms later on.

Doug and myself bantered back and forth on this idea a year or two ago when thinking about some micro class rules.

I like it because it simply sidesteps technological advances and keeps the restriction focused on the "mass of the fuel tank" and not a lot of calculations of "at rest" or "average" voltages.

I do however, strongly feel that it would be wise to keep the 40v or thereabouts voltage cap for safety.

Respectfully,

Trent Hare

That's a very interesting idea Trent. Where did you see that fuse box anyway? I could use one of those in some LiPoly tests.

thanks

Steve

 

[Trent Hare]

http://www.bluesea.com/Products/FB/FB.html

 

[Pagemaster]

I wonder what kind of resistance they would have. Could be a failsafe in a brushless system to make sure the system doesn't go over a certain number of amps.

Steven Vaccaro

www.OffshoreElectrics.com

 

[Trent Hare]

Re: Fuses -

On second thought, for that idea to work we'd need a "wattage" control device and not really just a fuse. Everyone would just put 10 Li-Poly's in (40 volts) and we might have a mess all over again....

Back to the drawing board...

 

[jstevens]

Whew, there is some reading here.

Many good points here on changing class structure. I do think it is an important subject to talk about.

When NiMH first came out we were not too sure on what they would offer as far as performance advantage. Steve did test them at our Batavia race paving the way for allowing them in the future with no distinct advantage. At that time NiCads were common but the writing was on the wall for them. Now Nicads are rare.

With LiPoly I think the class structures as far as cell count will probably change. Looks like we have a choice between weight and voltage. I think voltage is probably safer bet and easier to check. I am also in favor of keeping at a 38-40v max.

Testing Lipoly is important to future development. I don't think we are ready to make the transition. I look at them like NiMH vs NiCads. The big difference is they are new, expensive, different configuration and I/we need a new charger to charge them. Usually with early batter batches they are not as good as their newer versions. With the strength behind NiMh I don't see LiPoly coming in its own for 3 or more years.

Jeff

 

[sjslhill]

Whew, there is some reading here.
Many good points here on changing class structure. I do think it is an important subject to talk about.

When NiMH first came out we were not too sure on what they would offer as far as performance advantage. Steve did test them at our Batavia race paving the way for allowing them in the future with no distinct advantage. At that time NiCads were common but the writing was on the wall for them. Now Nicads are rare.

With LiPoly I think the class structures as far as cell count will probably change. Looks like we have a choice between weight and voltage. I think voltage is probably safer bet and easier to check. I am also in favor of keeping at a 38-40v max.

Testing Lipoly is important to future development. I don't think we are ready to make the transition. I look at them like NiMH vs NiCads. The big difference is they are new, expensive, different configuration and I/we need a new charger to charge them. Usually with early batter batches they are not as good as their newer versions. With the strength behind NiMh I don't see LiPoly coming in its own for 3 or more years.

Jeff

Jeff,

I agree with most of your comments. Don't look for it however, to be 3 years down the road. R/C Car packs will be coming out in December with charger / safety packages. Horizan Hobbies is already offer flight packs to the consumer.

In 3 years, NIMH will be a thing of the past and only a sport option for R/C

thanks

Steve

 

[jstevens]

Steve,

I am not denying that LiPoly is not coming into the market place. I just look at it through the eyes of a budget conscience boat racer not a battery distributor. The reality for Batavia to even consider such a change would be 3 years. It is not something you sugar and serve on a platter. Its a bigger change than NiMh was and up to the individual to transition before it can be a class or class structure.

Jeff

 

[LOU]

R/C Car packs will be coming out in December with charger / safety packages.

Ya Baby Give me some lipo. Im toooooooFAT

LOU