Sport 40 front canard

[Mike Betke]

Here is a question for you guys.

If I design a sport 40 with the front of the hull like the modern day boats with a support spar going thru the cockpit and the adjustable canard as far forward on the boat as possible, is this legal within the IMPBA rules? The support spar would count towards the dimension of allowable canard length. Or would somebody come back and say this is now a vented hull?

Pic of a boat attached for clarity.

 

[Samuel Hagan JR]

Yeah it's legal.

 

[Scott Liddycoat]

I would say yes!!

Nice boat pic!

Scott

 

[Mike Betke]

I say yes too. I was hoping for a little more feedback after the endless amount of stuff on the putting the strut on the back of the boat. From my testing, this will have a far greater effect on the way a boat handles compared to the strut location.

That was a wild ride for you that weekend in Detroit Scott. Good thing I took a pic on Saturday.

 

[Ken Hildreth]

I run a big wing far forward on my Phil Thomas hull. I have had very good results and it is the smoothest riding sport 40 I have had. Those who have seen it really like the way it rides. I have two scales with that configuration. I have used that wing successfully when tuning those also. I think its a great idea and see no reason for it not to be legal.

Ken

 

[Dasboatman]

Hey Mike,

I would say that the "length" of the canopy spar and any fairing, and the "length" of the canard would simply be added to ensure the pickle fork depth does not exceed 25% of the hull length. With:

"Canard wings individually cannot exceed 3.5" in length. Having more than one set of canard wings you are only allowed a total of 5" of combined wing length."

Configuration drawing uses the term "rear vents" only.

Vented, to my way of thinking, would have to be aft of the leading edge of the hull center section to vent air from the center section as most visual with the Two or three wing Unlimiteds in years past, or the UL-5.

I too believe your proposed configuration is legal and complies with the currently approved, but not published Sportsman 40 Hydro rules. CHEERS !!! Bob

 

[Dasboatman]

Hey Ken,

I hope you'll be preparing said Sport 40 and Scale boat for a trip to Atlanta to race with us at the Spring Nats. Bring ADULT supervision. Har, Har !!!!

CHEERS !!! Bob

 

[Mike Betke]

Hi Bob,

Your description is exactly what I am talking about. The new rules state it as length, but that does not matter. My concern was with it not looking like the picture and there being an issue. I agree with you on the vents as well. Looks like Ken has seen the same results that I have, but his stuff always runs top notch so that is not a surprise.

Here are the new rules as they were voted in were there are clear limitations on the canard size.

M13X Sportsman pages(1).pdf

 

[SayMikey]

looks like your in big dog start gluing some wood. Cant wait to see it

 

[Samuel Hagan JR]

Mike, here's mine. I have a better picture somewhere but it's close. Needs a lot more work. It's a sport 40.

 

[Samuel Hagan JR]

 

[Mike Betke]

looks like your in big dog start gluing some wood. Cant wait to see it

Still making it all fit on paper. Hope to be cutting and gluing this weekend. I try to post some pics as I go.

 

[Dasboatman]

Hey Mike,

The rules I posted were right from then IMPBA web site with the approved change to strut mounting change, and configurations page.

The M13X Sportsman pages (1) pdf link appears to have some information not in the current On line Rule Book, and the last diagram is one that I thought was deleted with the Gooey Cheese proposal that was cancelled by Kevin Sheren.

It appears to me that your reference mixes apples and oranges. Does anyone have a working draft copy of what the Rule Book will read after the change to strut position is made??

CHEERS !!! Bob

 

[Roy Munoz]

Very nice Samuel..Very nice..

 

[Grimracer]

I suspect what might be asked is.. (I don’t have an answer either) is..

If part of that 25% opening is mid ship or aft of the center of the hull is this still legal?



Grim

 

[Grimracer]

[SIZE=medium]thinking more....I have seen some VERY FAST round nose boats.. IF one placed a 5% set of pickle forks on the front and finished aft with the other 20%.. even as far back as mid ship.. what have we?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Grim[/SIZE]

 

[P THOMAS]

You wold have one ugly boat that wouldnt work, HA You are thinking too much

 

[Dasboatman]

Hey Phil,

I thought Mike had a good question. Since we have changed strut placement to be in tune with the modern era Limited hulls, I don't see an issue with including a cockpit spar and including that measurement as a part of the Canard width / length - - whatever the Sam Hill we want to call it, with total pickle depth not to exceed 25% of hull length.

It's Class "D" Grim - - Har, Har !!! I still haven't found out where that AMA engine class originaled. 60 will always be Class C to me. I'm with Phil - that would be 'Befugly'.

I wanted to make sure the currently approved rule set was what we were all working from before the 2014 racing season starts. And - - - I'd like to see some new hulls other than Phil's SS45s on the water in September in Evansville. You and Phil tried your best to foil me with the Phil GP cowl on your Sport 40 that I had never seen before. I actually really like Phil's round nose Karelsen Sport 40 - - his Timex too.

And - - - I'd like to see some new hulls other than Phil's SS45 on the water in September in Evansville. Even one of these Staudacher limited hulls (pics attached) - driver was optional - - threw him out of the boat first time it tried to turn left at speed.

Are you coming to Spring Nats, Phil ??? CHEERS !!! Bob

 

[P THOMAS]

I see they have 12 spots for scale hydro, maybe I could go this year. Dont worry about new boats, sounds like betke will have something new for you to race against if you come to the nitro nats, and no telling what I may be up to. HA

 

[Grimracer]

[SIZE=medium]Phil,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Every time something like this comes up you say somebody is over thinking “it”. Truth is that’s a typical reaction to somebody who would be protecting their product. No worries on my end I LOVE my SS45 and for me I aint changing ANYTIME soon![/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]My comment is more of a “what if”. I do know that when Mike asks a question like this it’s for good reason. He does not want to spend hours designing and building a new boat only to have it yanked because we “interpret” the rules differently. Right now it looks like there is no end to the placement of the 25% openings. Truth is it looks like it could be placed anywhere the builder wants.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I know Mike does not really like me and OK.. that’s OK.. Im not picking him or on anybody here. Mike is a grey area master mind (I don’t mean that in a bad way Mike please know that) when it comes to sport boats and he has the wins to show it. You can bet he has a very crafty designing his head or on paper. If we are willing to ignore what is or is not in the written rules because it’s too much work or to review, propose and clarify or “this is just so post to be fun” then I say.. HAVE AT IT MIKE.. I cannot wait to see what rocket you design next.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Rockout![/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Grim[/SIZE]