Single F hydros/Twin F Hydros

[dwilfong]

Cool! I'll miss the Ski jump! Now if you could just get the lake down to Sea Level. Not asking for much? LOL

Nothing like running at sea level, we do twice a year.

I think record trail attendence should be limited to one event per year per member.

Or at lease put a limit on the number of records they can set in a calander year.

I get tired of typing some of their names. :lol: :lol:

Doug

There you go Doug. I knew there was a Selfish slant to that.

But seriously. Some guys live 1000 miles away from the nearest record event. Some guys have the best record facility within a one hour drive of the house.

That 1000 miles equates to $500 worth of fuel vs. 20 bucks worth...not to mention other travel expenses and travel time...days off of work.

There is a reason that most of the record holders live relatively local to a good record trial facility.

We need one in Florida.

 

[Andy Brown]

Cool! I'll miss the Ski jump! Now if you could just get the lake down to Sea Level. Not asking for much? LOL

Nothing like running at sea level, we do twice a year.

I think record trail attendence should be limited to one event per year per member.

Or at lease put a limit on the number of records they can set in a calander year.

I get tired of typing some of their names. :lol: :lol:

Doug

There you go Doug. I knew there was a Selfish slant to that.

But seriously. Some guys live 1000 miles away from the nearest record event. Some guys have the best record facility within a one hour drive of the house.

That 1000 miles equates to $500 worth of fuel vs. 20 bucks worth...not to mention other travel expenses and travel time...days off of work.

There is a reason that most of the record holders live relatively local to a good record trial facility.

We need one in Florida.

Melbourne would not be bad. About 450' run up. Huntsville only has about 500' on the right end. Sea Level would make up for that. It would be at least as good as Valdosta which has short run up on the right and is very narrow on the left.

 

[julianconde]

what about the site of the 2011 winternats in orlando ski jump place thats long enough ???

 

[dr gary turner]

For about two decades they ran the Indy Unlimited. There was only ONE class, everyone could only bring ONE boat and there was only ONE first place trophey.

If I thought enough Twins would show up we'd just run TWINS! A massive TWIN FUEL HYDRO FEST!!!!

Andy: Set your date but not on "MOTHERS DAY" and format. They will come. Would like to see you at Huntsville at the trials or race. Doc

Talking with the "Distirct" leaders to confirm a date. We plan to be at Huntsville this Fall Doc.

Great, Doc

 

[dwilfong]

what about the site of the 2011 Internets in Orlando ski jump place thats long enough ???

Yes the water ski hall of fame was a good saw lake. But not much room to turn only about 250' wide.

Melbourne would be nice. the problem is getting the survey and the money to do it.

That club dose not make much with the small races thy have. You need money in the bank and the people who want to do it.

Are club the Orlando Culvert Dodges has the finical backing in the bank to do it at the ski lake. But the turn out would have to pay for the cost of the setup.

 

[Andy Brown]

what about the site of the 2011 Internets in Orlando ski jump place thats long enough ???

Yes the water ski hall of fame was a good saw lake. But not much room to turn only about 250' wide.

Melbourne would be nice. the problem is getting the survey and the money to do it.

That club dose not make much with the small races thy have. You need money in the bank and the people who want to do it.

Are club the Orlando Culvert Dodges has the finical backing in the bank to do it at the ski lake. But the turn out would have to pay for the cost of the setup.

How much can a survey be? With GPS technolgy it should be a piece of cake. After that the only cost to putting on a time trial is shipping the timing equipment and participents fees normally cover that. There are a bunch of electric guys in the Southeast that run for records not to mention the gas boaters who would want to make some attemps. The Huntsville club normally charges a $10 sign up fee plus $1 per run. Ten guys show up and you've got your shipping covered. I'll bet a few guys would donate to the cause to cover the survey. Why not look into it since you are in the loop down there David. Would be nice to have NAMBA record trials here in Fla.

P.S. I'm talking about at the Melbourne lake, since a NAMBA club has secure possesion of that lake.

 

[dwilfong]

what about the site of the 2011 Internets in Orlando ski jump place thats long enough ???

Yes the water ski hall of fame was a good saw lake. But not much room to turn only about 250' wide.

Melbourne would be nice. the problem is getting the survey and the money to do it.

That club dose not make much with the small races thy have. You need money in the bank and the people who want to do it.

Are club the Orlando Culvert Dodges has the finical backing in the bank to do it at the ski lake. But the turn out would have to pay for the cost of the setup.

How much can a survey be? With GPS technolgy it should be a piece of cake. After that the only cost to putting on a time trial is shipping the timing equipment and participents fees normally cover that. There are a bunch of electric guys in the Southeast that run for records not to mention the gas boaters who would want to make some attemps. The Huntsville club normally charges a $10 sign up fee plus $1 per run. Ten guys show up and you've got your shipping covered. I'll bet a few guys would donate to the cause to cover the survey. Why not look into it since you are in the loop down there David. Would be nice to have NAMBA record trials here in Fla.

P.S. I'm talking about at the Melbourne lake, since a NAMBA club has secure possesion of that lake.

I will put it out there and see where it goes.

Would be more than happy to help make it happen.

 

[John Knight]

Andy,

The CMB club lake was just surveyed early this year for SAW and 1/3rd ovals trials in preparation for hosting the IMPBA Internats in late May. It cost us just a tick under $1,000. It is accurate within 1/1000". I'll show you when you get here in 2 weeks.

John

 

[bzubee]

Our survey up in STL cost $400 per lake site back in 1993 Ours in Huntsville didn't cost us anything the city did it since they know we consistanly bring in tourist dollars with our events. They figure about $125 per day per person. That why they really want us to contiue doing our events. Using GPS/GIS to do surveys really is cool you end up getting an actual satiete picure with your survey points and distances.

 

[Buckshot]

It is accurate within 1/1000".

That would be .001"!?

I've got some of the best survey equipment made and even my newest 3D laser scanner isn't that accurate and it will create an incredibly dense point cloud!

There is no survey instrument available to the public that will shoot that accurate and even if there was the humans operating it could not be that accurate!!

 

[Blackout]

It is accurate within 1/1000".

That would be .001"!?

I've got some of the best survey equipment made and even my newest 3D laser scanner isn't that accurate and it will create an incredibly dense point cloud!

There is no survey instrument available to the public that will shoot that accurate and even if there was the humans operating it could not be that accurate!!

Was thinking the same.....

Seems like GPS would be less accurate than a transit.

I'm looking for a transit to do our pond. (Not for official trials.) Any suggestions for a good, but inexpensive transit??

 

[Walt Barney]

It is accurate within 1/1000".

That would be .001"!?

I've got some of the best survey equipment made and even my newest 3D laser scanner isn't that accurate and it will create an incredibly dense point cloud!

There is no survey instrument available to the public that will shoot that accurate and even if there was the humans operating it could not be that accurate!!

Was thinking the same.....

Seems like GPS would be less accurate than a transit.

I'm looking for a transit to do our pond. (Not for official trials.) Any suggestions for a good, but inexpensive transit??

You can rent them from Home Depot or maybe a tool rental

Walt Barney

 

[John Knight]

Yes it is .001" and I do not question an expert in the surveying field. They used the newest laser transits. That info came from the surveying company owner. The point is that the rule book allows for a 6" variance and the CMB course is much tighter in tolerance than the rule book allows.

 

[Buckshot]

Yes it is .001" and I do not question an expert in the surveying field. They used the newest laser transits. That info came from the surveying company owner. The point is that the rule book allows for a 6" variance and the CMB course is much tighter in tolerance than the rule book allows.

Sorry John but they are blowing smoke up your backside.

Even the newest fully robotic total stations only read to .001' not .001". I'm sure your course monuments are very accurate but not as accurate as you have been lead to believe. Like you said, you've got a +/- .50' tolerance per the rule book. I kinda know what I'm talking about.

Sorry guys! Back to the regularly scheduled thread. LOL

 

[Andy Brown]

Yes it is .001" and I do not question an expert in the surveying field. They used the newest laser transits. That info came from the surveying company owner. The point is that the rule book allows for a 6" variance and the CMB course is much tighter in tolerance than the rule book allows.

The important detail John....When are your first record trials scheduled? I'm anxiously waiting!

 

[John Knight]

Yes it is .001" and I do not question an expert in the surveying field. They used the newest laser transits. That info came from the surveying company owner. The point is that the rule book allows for a 6" variance and the CMB course is much tighter in tolerance than the rule book allows.

The important detail John....When are your first record trials scheduled? I'm anxiously waiting!

That is another subject for our discussion at the Fall Nats. We will be open for trials as long as some good record trial guru's can come and help to run it. We have the facility for it.

 

[j whiddon]

Andy this sounds really cool but if you go to a back up boat you should still lose your points. I can't afford to have back up boats just sitting around as I'm sure many other racers will agree.

 

[Andy Brown]

Andy this sounds really cool but if you go to a back up boat you should still lose your points. I can't afford to have back up boats just sitting around as I'm sure many other racers will agree.

Jeff,

I'm glad you like the format. We are still adjusting it. I hope to see you here. It will be a great race. We are working out the details and more information will be available soon.

Jeff, these are my thoughts on back up boats.

IMPBA use to have a 2 boat rule for the US-1 classes. The very reason was so that the guys with all of the knowledge, money and time could not enter every class and walk away with all of the trophies. I thought it was a good idea because I saw the results from the Baltimore, Md. NAMBA nats when I was first getting into boating back in about 1972. Herb and Ricki Stewart won 80% of the trophies. At least it seemed like that many. They had a truck load of boats and they both got trophies in a bunch of classes.

Some years later IMPBA decided to allow multiple boats to be entered into US-1 classes by one contestant. Seems like they did this when Internats entries became less in the 1990's. ??? So today there are no limits on how many boats an IMPBA member can enter in a race or the IMPBA Internats.

Jeff, you and I both know at least a couple of very good racers that show up at the races with 12 boats. And sometimes they leave the race with nearly as many trophies.

You and I and a bunch of other guys can't afford to support more than 1 or 2 or maybe 3 boats to race. So where is the fairness with these "deep pocket", "12 boat" guys? Are you and other racers questioning the fairness in racers showing up with 12 boats?

Jeff, my purpose in allowing back up boats is for the UNLIKELY event that someone's boat becomes severely damaged to the point of putting him out of the race.

He came to race and we are putting on a race to have full heats, full of good competitive race boats. Not to have a guy side lined and not to see how many heats we can combine because of attrition.

There are racers that will travel a long distance for this race. What if a guy comes from Australia or Europe and his boat gets cut in half in the first heat? What do we say? "Sorry bud, get on the plane and go home because IMPBA has this "deep pocket" rule, so your done? "

"Oh and BTW Mr. Australian, It is ok with the IMPBA if you had entered 11 high dollar, custom built, best of everything boats, but if you bring two average boats and your old 15 year old beater as a back up in case some guy looses radio and cuts your good boat in half, sorry but you can't do that!"

Jeff, I have raced at the NAVIGA world champs several times. They allow back up boats. Some racers, but not most, do bring back up boats. I can not say that I have seen the ability to run a back up boat give anyone an unfair advantage.

Someone here will say: "But if a guy can bring two boats for every class he could have a rough water boat and a calm water boat. That would be an unfair advantage." I guess he could. But would he be any different than the guy that entered 12 classes? Well, I guess he would if he entered 12 classes and brought 24 boats!

The bottom line is this. I see allowing a back up boat as a practical solution to the guy that says, "Well I don't know if I want to travel 10,000 miles to a race in which I could get side lined if my only two boats get destroyed." My answer to him is, "bring your two boats". "If they get destroyed we will find you two more boats that are not being raced by another competitor so you can continue in this competition."

Is that not what happens at any give race when someone breaks an engine, losses a shaft, folds a prop, explodes a sponson, looses a cowl...and another competitor walks up and says, "here ya go!" "I have a spare cowl you can borrow. Can I help you get it mounted?"

Well in the case of my race, you can loan your competitor your spare boat if his sinks in 60' of water!

 

[julianconde]

Andy this sounds really cool but if you go to a back up boat you should still lose your points. I can't afford to have back up boats just sitting around as I'm sure many other racers will agree.

Jeff,

I'm glad you like the format. We are still adjusting it. I hope to see you here. It will be a great race. We are working out the details and more information will be available soon.

Jeff, these are my thoughts on back up boats.

IMPBA use to have a 2 boat rule for the US-1 classes. The very reason was so that the guys with all of the knowledge, money and time could not enter every class and walk away with all of the trophies. I thought it was a good idea because I saw the results from the Baltimore, Md. NAMBA nats when I was first getting into boating back in about 1972. Herb and Ricki Stewart won 80% of the trophies. At least it seemed like that many. They had a truck load of boats and they both got trophies in a bunch of classes.

Some years later IMPBA decided to allow multiple boats to be entered into US-1 classes by one contestant. Seems like they did this when Internats entries became less in the 1990's. ??? So today there are no limits on how many boats an IMPBA member can enter in a race or the IMPBA Internats.

Jeff, you and I both know at least a couple of very good racers that show up at the races with 12 boats. And sometimes they leave the race with nearly as many trophies.

You and I and a bunch of other guys can't afford to support more than 1 or 2 or maybe 3 boats to race. So where is the fairness with these "deep pocket", "12 boat" guys? Are you and other racers questioning the fairness in racers showing up with 12 boats?

Jeff, my purpose in allowing back up boats is for the UNLIKELY event that someone's boat becomes severely damaged to the point of putting him out of the race.

He came to race and we are putting on a race to have full heats, full of good competitive race boats. Not to have a guy side lined and not to see how many heats we can combine because of attrition.

There are racers that will travel a long distance for this race. What if a guy comes from Australia or Europe and his boat gets cut in half in the first heat? What do we say? "Sorry bud, get on the plane and go home because IMPBA has this "deep pocket" rule, so your done? "

"Oh and BTW Mr. Australian, It is ok with the IMPBA if you had entered 11 high dollar, custom built, best of everything boats, but if you bring two average boats and your old 15 year old beater as a back up in case some guy looses radio and cuts your good boat in half, sorry but you can't do that!"

Jeff, I have raced at the NAVIGA world champs several times. They allow back up boats. Some racers, but not most, do bring back up boats. I can not say that I have seen the ability to run a back up boat give anyone an unfair advantage.

Someone here will say: "But if a guy can bring two boats for every class he could have a rough water boat and a calm water boat. That would be an unfair advantage." I guess he could. But would he be any different than the guy that entered 12 classes? Well, I guess he would if he entered 12 classes and brought 24 boats!

The bottom line is this. I see allowing a back up boat as a practical solution to the guy that says, "Well I don't know if I want to travel 10,000 miles to a race in which I could get side lined if my only two boats get destroyed." My answer to him is, "bring your two boats". "If they get destroyed we will find you two more boats that are not being raced by another competitor so you can continue in this competition."

Is that not what happens at any give race when someone breaks an engine, losses a shaft, folds a prop, explodes a sponson, looses a cowl...and another competitor walks up and says, "here ya go!" "I have a spare cowl you can borrow. Can I help you get it mounted?"

Well in the case of my race, you can loan your competitor your spare boat if his sinks in 60' of water!

interesting

 

[j whiddon]

Andy, I agree with you! Great explanation! Had it happen to me at the internats. First heat, first turn boat was torn up beyond repair for the week! Nobobys fault just one of those things. I will help you anyway I can to make this race happen. If you plan a weekend in advance to work on the Valdosta site I will come up and help. I would love to see a race in the north Fl.,south Ga. area.