sealing of wood

[anthony_marquart]

Boy Preston I don't agree with sealing with paint alone. In my brief experience the epoxy is much more durible than the paint. If you use just paint it's real easy to get a scratch through the paint. Then the wood starts to absorb water through the scratch eventually leading to no good.

The epoxy also helps keep edges sharp

 

[Preston_Hall]

Boy Preston I don't agree with sealing with paint alone. In my brief experience the epoxy is much more durible than the paint. If you use just paint it's real easy to get a scratch through the paint. Then the wood starts to absorb water through the scratch eventually leading to no good.
The epoxy also helps keep edges sharp

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Think about it. Epoxy is an adhesive mostly for bonding. And you can scratch through it as well unless you have applied way too much. Besides that, West Systems basically sucks. Ask an adhesive salesman. Don't believe me. Look at all these nice riggers that were sealed with West Sytems alone. They are faded due to no UV protection and oil having penetrated almost every section of the boat. The discoloration tells the story.

Now use a clear automotive paint and your wood stays very bright and free of water and oil. Seen it. You put a 1 year old West System boat beside a 1 year old clear coat boat and the difference is amazing. I know of one boat that most would bet money on it not being sealed. The wood grain is very much present. But it has been water and oil tight for 3 years now.

If you use a paint that dries in 5 seconds, then it hasn't bonded with the wood and it is junk.

 

[Brad Christy]

Preston,

I use WestSystem (105 resin, 206 hardener) directly on the wood because it is MUCH tougher than any paint will ever be, and bonds with the wood better. I also use PPG 2021 clear over that, which has so far proven to be total fuel proof, hard as a rock and is supposed to provide nearly 100% UV blockage. My wood is still just as it was before I covered it. I also use neon colors (yellow personally) which are notoriously photo-sensitive, meaning it will fade due to exposure to light, specifically UV. The painted portions of my boats are still just as bright as the paint still in the can after two years of sitting in the sun, waiting for me to row out to retrieve it.....

I feel the epoxy applied directly to the wood adds to surface resilience and overall stiffness of the hull, plus it fills an gaps that you might have missed, and puts a final bond between all the parts that you've glued together. IF done right, the insignificant amount of weight it adds to the boat is well worth it for what it does for the longevity of your new pride and joy.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

 

[dannyual767]

Preston, I think that I'm going to have to disagree with you as well. If you use a penetrating epoxy (basically a thin or thinned epoxy) it will do just that-penetrate the wood fibers and offer much better water protection than any top coat of paint could.

Yes, epoxy must be UV protected or it will dull and yellow. You can't expect it to keep looking good (crystal clear) if it isn't covered with something else.

I agree with you 100% that an automotive clear covered boat will stay nice and clear and look great!

 

[Preston_Hall]

Brad,

Your boat stays looking the same because of the clear, not the epoxy.

Danny,

Just how deep do you think the epoxy seals the wood. If it went that deep the boats would weigh a ton.

Oh well, I once believed in using way to much glue until it was proven different to me. And since I started painting, I don't have all the oil penetrating the wood where the West Systems is said to be. Like I said, the discoloration says it all.

 

[Brad Christy]

Preston,

I agree with you for the most part about the clear making the boat look good. But I have also seen the advantages of sealing the wood before painting. Late this season, I had a radio switch problem (self induced) that put my 20 boat on the bank at near full throttle. The clear on the sponson tips and nose block of the tub was chipped and scratched through to the "wood". Upon close inspection, I noticed that the wood had not been damaged at all. Since use PPG 2021, which is VERY hard and VERY resilient to abrasion and impact, I know that it took a considerable amount of force to get under it like had happened. Had I only "painted" the boat with just the clear, the bear wood underneath would have instantly started soaking up water and discoloring permanently.

I know the epoxy only goes a few thousandths deep into the wood, but it forms an incredibly hard "crust" that is much more resistant to damage. Granted, if you get T-boned by another boat or hit a rock or something, there is going to be significant damage than even epoxy will prevent, but I'll take the extra bit of "armor" the epoxy provides any day.

As for the weight issue: I'd be willing to bet that a boat that is sealed right and then painted by a skilled painter will weigh less or look better (or both) than a boat that is just painted. Dave Roach and I have found that sealing the wood keeps the wood from soaking any of the paint into the grain. When we painted my 45 boat, we mixed up five ounces of PPG clear. Most of what actually went through the gun was lost in the air instead of hitting the boat and we poured 2.5-3 ounces out when we were done. We even painted a set of sponsons for my 20 boat with that batch of clear. Now consider the fact that probably 75% of the weight of the paint that actually stuck to the boat was solvent and evaporated. We only hit it with one coat and the boat looks like glass, is totally fuel proof and is very slick on the water. It would take at least two , probably three, maybe four coats to achieve these results over bare wood.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

 

[Eric Perez]

Brad,Your boat stays looking the same because of the clear, not the epoxy.

Danny,

Just how deep do you think the epoxy seals the wood. If it went that deep the boats would weigh a ton.

Oh well, I once believed in using way to much glue until it was proven different to me. And since I started painting, I don't have all the oil penetrating the wood where the West Systems is said to be. Like I said, the discoloration says it all.

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I love west system and use it on everything -but my engine bays are all dark where the oil penetrated the wood. And the outside of the boats tend to darken with time.

West is inexpensive and I tend to build new stuff every year so I don't notice the deterioration of the wood cause the boats get retired rather quickly. I don't have access to good "PPG style" anything -Don't even own a compressor... Still in my opinion when choosing between a rattle can andf west I go with epoxy.

The funny thing is that my electric boats sealed only with epoxy look as new as the day I made them. Maybe the fuel is affecting the epoxy more than we want to admit...

Speaking of rattle cans is there a fuel-proof choice for us that do not own a spray-gun or want to spend the big bucks getting our boats detailed at the local body shop?

 

[anthony_marquart]

Eric,

check out this paint product. I've used it before with a cheap airbrush with pretty good results. I had some trouble with the paint running when I get it thick enough to get that "wet" look. I need more practice for sure. I used the clear to cover over rattle can paint for color. The only thing I have seen is that when I used it over white the burnt fuel / oil did stain. I didn't see anything with the darker colors though. It has not washed off at all from fuel so far. It's seen 50% on my boats.

http://www.nelsonhobby.com/paint.html

 

[Preston_Hall]

You can't make a horse drink.

I'll give you guys something to think about. All of the above mentioned ways of sealing a boat are heavy, and time consuming. There is a better way but you will have to figure that one for yourself.

 

[Grimracer]

Here is mine...

Prep the wood with 320

Brush on 3 coats of PPG 2042/DCX60/DT870 clear.

Scrape with a single edge razor and then skuff with red scotch brite pad

Spray on two full wet coats..

If adding color use any good two part primer

Omni color paint W/Hardner.

If adding soft edging or airbrush detail one more coat of 2042 over detail.

grim.