sealing of wood

[Terry Flynn]

Hi guys I need a little help. I'm in the process of finishing a wood sport 40. And never building a wood boat before I'm lost. :blink: And I was wondering what the best method for sealing the wood would be. I tried using West system and it's nice but after it dries it takes me about 2 hours worth of sanding just to get it flat! Am I doing something wrong? I was thinking about adding acetone to it to thin it a little hoping to get it to smooth out better not sure. Or is there a better method?

Thanks

Terry

 

[bzubee]

Hi guys I need a little help. I'm in the process of finishing a wood sport 40. And never building a wood boat before I'm lost.  :blink:   And I was wondering what the best method for sealing the wood would be. I tried using West system and it's nice but after it dries it takes me about 2 hours worth of sanding just to get it flat! Am I doing something wrong? I was thinking about adding acetone to it to thin it a little hoping to get it to smooth out better not sure. Or is there a better method? Thanks

Terry

69499[/snapback]

​

I always used a product called Feather fill it is a polyester based filler used you just brush it on and sand most of it off polyester soaks into the wood along with filler material and fills all of the grain too. Then just use primer and paint.

 

[Piston1]

Bill, can you provide a brand name.

 

[anthony_marquart]

West systems is the way to go. Maybe you didn't get the right products. I have not used it myself but I have tried other products. I've also tried just priming, painting and sealing with a fuel proof paint. DON"T DO THAT! If you get a scratch or ding bare wood is exposed. Eventually it will absorb water and rot from the inside out.

I do think that you can use most any HIGH grade slow cure epoxy. West Systems is very expensive. I just put it on and then scrape most of it off leaving just enough to fill the grain and any buggers. Then there are only a few lines to sand.

I've also found that stratigically placed graphics do wonders on small blemishes!!

What kind of boat did you build? Got any pics?

 

[gil sonsino]

Hi Terry

Any good epoxy product will get you a very good seal on wood but to save time instead of sanding (a hard task with epoxy strenght) use a knife blade to scrap your boat.I do know that a sport hydro is not flat as a rigger but with care you can smoothly use the knife blade to remove the excess of epoxy until get a smooth surface.

That's the way I do in all my rigger with great final results.

I personally don't like poliester products for wood but everyone has a personal technics for finishing.

Finishing epoxy from Zap is a great product I use and you can try for this step once it is very resistant but easily sanded or scrapped.

Gill

 

[bzubee]

the product name is Feather fill you can get it at most boat repair shops or Body shops paint stores that deal with corvettes. Only thing is if you have already used epoxy on the wood this product will not work it is a polyester resin type product so it will not setup over epoxy.

 

[wswatzell]

They make scrappers (squeeges) for applying epoxy that are a flexible plastic that will follow the contours. You can pick them up at any paint supply place. They also use them for applying body filler (bondo), wall paper, etc...

The trick is to remove as much excess as possible, that way; you don’t have to sand as much. Use at least 3 thin coats, instead of 1 really thick coat. You will save weight, & a bunch of sanding.

here is a link that shows a picture of a plastic squeege

epoxy applicators

this is West Systems page, it has a ton of info on it about how to use there product

West System

 

[Preston_Hall]

Terry,

To sum up what is here, do this

1) Apply epoxy with a "sqeegee". I use inexpensive playing cards.

2) Brush over with a foam brush. This will lay down or remove any sqeegee lines.

3) After curing, scape the surface lightly with a razor blade. It won't take much effort to do this.

4) Lightly sand with 220 grit. Very little effort as well.

5) I usually repeat this 2-3 times.

6) You are now ready for primer and painting. Don Ferrette turned me onto PPG epoxy primers and Concept paints. They work really well.

 

[Terry Flynn]

Thanks for the lesson guys. Now I can try this the right way.

 

[Brad Christy]

Terry,

My personal method is just like Preston described, but I use a heavy paper towel to "scub" the epoxy ino the wood. You have to watch your results as you go, because the paper towel will start to fall apart and you need to get a new on. Some guys use grey (ultra fine) Scotch-Bright abrasive finishing pad to apply to epoxy. Also, pay attention to your pot of epoxy. When it starts to thicken, pitch it and mix a new batch. Better to waste some epoxy rather than not get the wood sealed well. I have found, in most cases, that if you do the first coat thorough enough, I only need two coats.

WestSystem is probably the best because it is very thin and gets down into the grain of the wood better than other brands. It is also not as expensive as some think. The problem is that it must be bought in bulk. I think the smallest quantity you can get it in is a quart, plus you have to buy the pump set with the first purchase. The pump set gets your resin/hardener ratio right, but you don't need to mix up a full pump if you only need a little bit. What I do is use two different sizes of graduated syringes. Mine are 10cc (grad .2cc) and 3cc (grad .05cc). Just squirt out a 5:1 mix and stir. This saves me from having to wait until I have ause for a whole batch or throwing away a whole pump batch when all I needed was a spot.

As for scraping/sanding: I use the heavy duty utility knife blades. Once you get the hang of using the razor blade, you will only ned to sand what you can't get with the blade. The area you scrape will get very smooth and shiny. When you can look at your surface at an angle under bright light, and not see any wood grain, you have a well sealed piece of wood.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

 

[Will Gallagher]

I have had really good luck heating the wood with a hair dryer (Not too hot) to open up the pores then brush on a thick coat of West Systems. The like Brad I like to work it into the grain wearing latex gloves then let it soak in for 15 to 20 min before I wide off the epoxy. I prefer to wipe off with a rag, but an old credit card or razor blade works well. Once it’s cured I sand smooth using 220-grit. Then repeat the process except I use 320-grit on the second and third coat. I put a third coat on the sponsons bottoms because I don’t like to pant them. I feel the edges stay much sharper this way.

As for painting the tops, I spray a light coat of catalyzed primer then I use PPG Delton 2000 with PPG 2042 speed clear. It’s a bit expensive, but I spend way too time and money on my boats to even chance the finish coming off or blistering due to the High Nitro we run.

Good luck, and take your time.

 

[Don Templeton]

Terry,

Which West Systems hardner are you using? I use the 209 hardner with the 105 resin. Gives you a lot of time to work with it. I also use at least three different coats and you don't have to do all sides at one time. Usually I'll put it on with a foam brush and then wipe it smooth with a wrag. It does take some time for this mix to dry but I think it soaks in better and self levels better.

Don

 

[Terry Flynn]

Terry,
Which West Systems hardner are you using? I use the 209 hardner with the 105 resin. Gives you a lot of time to work with it. I also use at least three different coats and you don't have to do all sides at one time. Usually I'll put it on with a foam brush and then wipe it smooth with a wrag. It does take some time for this mix to dry but I think it soaks in better and self levels better.

Don

69594[/snapback]

​

what I have now is the 105 resin and the 205 hardner. is this going to work just the same?

 

[Terry Keeley]

Terry,
Which West Systems hardner are you using? I use the 209 hardner with the 105 resin. Gives you a lot of time to work with it. I also use at least three different coats and you don't have to do all sides at one time. Usually I'll put it on with a foam brush and then wipe it smooth with a wrag. It does take some time for this mix to dry but I think it soaks in better and self levels better.

Don

69594[/snapback]

​

what I have now is the 105 resin and the 205 hardner. is this going to work just the same?

69602[/snapback]

​

It will, you just have to work a little faster.

 

[Don Templeton]

The 205 is a rapid cure hardner with a pot life of only 9 to 12 minutes. It would be a problem for me if used on anything but a pretty small area. The 209 has a pot life of about 40 to 50 minutes which gives you plenty of time to work it. The only drawback that I can see is approx 24 hours to cure but I think the results are worth it. It just makes life easier for me and gives me the time to get the results I feel good with before I leave it to dry over night. It would be interesting to hear what hardner some of the other guys are using.

Don

 

[Eric Perez]

Don, I use the 206 hardener with the 105 resin ratio of 3:1 when it's colder and 4:1 when its a bit warmer. I get to do an entire tub (10 min) before I notice any viscocity changes.

The "recommended ratio is 5:1" but it takes it too long to cure (24H) and I always worry about a bad mix If I can't see it work before I go to sleep...

At my ratios It will harden in about 8 hours. Fully cure overnight. I really like it -sort of best of both worlds for my taste.

The 205 is a rapid cure hardner with a pot life of only 9 to 12 minutes. It would be a problem for me if used on anything but a pretty small area. The 209 has a pot life of about 40 to 50 minutes which gives you plenty of time to work it. The only drawback that I can see is approx 24 hours to cure but I think the results are worth it. It just makes life easier for me and gives me the time to get the results I feel good with before I leave it to dry over night. It would be interesting to hear what hardner some of the other guys are using.
Don

69606[/snapback]

​

 

[TimD]

I've used both 205 and 206 hardener with decent results. I don't do the whole boat in 1 go. I prefer to do sections at a time. I always use the 5:1 ratio.

 

[Joe_Knesek]

I use the same method Preston but I wipe off the epoxy before it cures. Do this a couple times and then prime it & paint it.

 

[boaterbill]

Hi guys I need a little help. I'm in the process of finishing a wood sport 40. And never building a wood boat before I'm lost.  :blink:   And I was wondering what the best method for sealing the wood would be. I tried using West system and it's nice but after it dries it takes me about 2 hours worth of sanding just to get it flat! Am I doing something wrong? I was thinking about adding acetone to it to thin it a little hoping to get it to smooth out better not sure. Or is there a better method? Thanks

Terry

69499[/snapback]

​

Terrry,Here"s what I use, sealer-PPG aquapond Interior Floor Component, Clear Componets A&B. This sealer is water base epoxy.

PPG Pimer DP74LF, DP402LF reducer

Deltron DBU color, DRR 1179 Reactive reducer

DVC 2021 Urethane Clear finish DXR80 reducer

Good Luck on you're project.Talk to your local PPG store. Their great help.

Bill

 

[Preston_Hall]

Terry,
Which West Systems hardner are you using? I use the 209 hardner with the 105 resin. Gives you a lot of time to work with it. I also use at least three different coats and you don't have to do all sides at one time. Usually I'll put it on with a foam brush and then wipe it smooth with a wrag. It does take some time for this mix to dry but I think it soaks in better and self levels better.

Don

69594[/snapback]

​

what I have now is the 105 resin and the 205 hardner. is this going to work just the same?

69602[/snapback]

​

It does set faster but when you use this squeegee method you will be surprised how little epoxy you need to cover a larger area. I usually mix 1 ounce at a time. This is plenty for the average rigger and if you don't work fast enough then hardly any has gone to waist.

I thought I would add that is is perfectly fine to seal a boat with paint alone.