Safety Issue

[Joe_Knesek]

In a previous post, we discussed using an actual knife blade as a trun fin on record trial boats to reduce drag. Over the summer, they began showing up on boats and at the Internat's one of the course workers ended up at with stitches after being struck by a boat using this type of fin. Yesterday I was reminded of this danger when a boat running a knife blade lost it's radio. Fortunately, nobody got hurt.

I think the sanctioning bodies should consider banning this practice, at least for heat racing. It's just a matter of time before something tragic happens.

 

[Mike Hughes]

I don't know about using knife blades, but some of the stainless steel and titanium turnfins I build will slice you just as good. I have even used one to cut up an onion at nats for the dogs. I don't think you can regulate this. What makes a knife edge? My turnfins are sharp as a knife. If people are catching running boats so they can get a needle, that is wrong. I have been cut up pretty good just trying to remove a prop. With a turnfin traveling at a speed of 40+ mph, it won't matter if the edge is a little dull or not. It will still cut you up real good.

Mike

 

[not2bright]

well put mike

 

[Joe_Knesek]

I don't think you can regulate this.

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...Until someone gets hurt and the insurance company steps in.

 

[bzubee]

Mike is correct how would you tech this rule see if the blade in question can slice paper or onions?

 

[jaso]

Hope ya not forgeting the fact that there is a razor sharp blender attachment hanging off the back spinin at 15,000 to 30,000 rpm on most off our boats.

Not trying to lessen the fact the knife blades are sharp and dangerous even in the kitchen but how are ya going to make that prop kiddy safe ???

Jason.

 

[[email protected]]

I think you've wondered from the post, the knife blade is a bad idea, hey if it works on the turnfin why not the ruddar, right? We all know the props dangerous so people tend to watch out for that already. It's the turnfin that will get you.

As for a sharp turn fin, that too can be dangerous. When I bought my Sport 40, I guess the guy had made a wicked sharp turn fin, when moving it from the garage to a race I have to kep a big nerf foam over it because I've razored open my skin three times and it's bound to happen anytime someone picks it up for me. Damn thing will sting for 3-4 days.

 

[BigChuck]

It has been my experience that you want to get things as SHARP as possible. With that in mind and the countless times a prop has cut someone just putting it on a boat. You would think that it would be an Idea for the catche of the retrevial boat crew to wear gloves of some kind. Or that some small hand held version of a gaff hook be used. Its a thought. I grabed a mono at the pipe mounts on the transom and recieved a red palm. I would think it would benefit both owner and retrevier.

 

[rcguy76]

Imagine how far a rules like that could be taken. Are you gonnna have to put little rubber caps on the front of the tunnel hulls so no one gets stabbed by the front of the hull. Mike said it right, basically any edge moving at that speed is gonna slice and dice. How many instruction booklets do us guys ignore and not read state in big bold letters THIS IS NOT A TOY, how many times have we not read the parts that says states THESE MODELS CAN CAUSE BODILY HARM Whats next, a rule that you have to insulate your engines and pipes so JUST INCASE someone grabs the engine, they dont get burned......Dont get me wrong, its a horrible thing when people get injured and we all hate to see that hapen, once again, these are not toys and should not be treated as such

 

[snowdog-2112]

I know this is going to sound harsh and I don't mean to minimize injury to anyone but I put this in the category of:

maybe a little chlorine needs to be added to the gene pool.

I mean come on now. R/C racing has been in existence for a while and if you spend any time doing this you know that;

1) Engines and their associated equipment get very hot and touching them is at your own discretion. No one else is to be held responsible for your stupid action.

2) Propellors are meant to be sharp and if you are dumb enough to stick your hand down there then you deserve any loss that may result. No one else is to be held responsible for your stupid action.

3) Always treat what you can't see as injury potenetial.

4) If you are dumb enough to try to catch a boat while running then the result section in point 2 (above) applies. No one else is to be held responsible for your stupid action. See a common thread here?

'Nuff said!

Snowdog

You want chlorine? I got chlorine! :angry:

 

[Preston_Hall]

one of the course workers ended up at with stitches after being struck

How in the world did he get "struck"? Must not have been following the rules. This seems especially odd since it was the Internats that it happened.

1) Engines and their associated equipment get very hot and touching them is at your own discretion.

That was my first thought when I read this thread. How many forearms have been blistered? I saw a guy run his mono, bring it in, lean over to look up in the hull and get a nice burn right on his forehead. He kind of looked funny for a while.

Maybe Kevlar protection is needed here.

 

[Ron Jefferson]

I don't want to get caught up in being for or against "knife blade turn fins". However, I do see a trend here. It appears that common sence is the only way to go. My worst injury in model boating was this past weekend when I fell on my face going onto the drivers stand wearing those big goofy looking yellow firemans boots. The funny part and the whole reason I posted is... I once was given crap for wearing sandles in the pits and asked the CD if he thought those little swimming socks with soles were any better than I had on. His reply was simple. "open toed shoes are not allowed Ron" so I walked away. So... Now I've got big clunky boots and skinned Knees and there's still a bunch of guys walking around the pits with the equivelent of socks on their feet. Maybe I'm the stupid one

Don't get me wrong guys. Bicycle helmets are mandatory for all kids under 16 here in Ontario and probably the best law ever passed. I'm all for safety but glad I'm not the guy setting the rules. Now that's a tough job! Keep plug'n Joe...

Ron

 

[Grimracer]

Seems like there is a point when you need to take responsibility for your actions..

Like if i was reaching down to grab a boat and i cut my self.. whos fault is it that i got cut, Even if its not my boat..?

If i get cut in the pits as some guy is rushing to get his boat to the water.. lets say the pits are a bit tight and there is lots of noise around. Is it his fault that im in there.. NO.. not the way i see it. If you think you are in danger then you might be and you best not place yourself in that place.

If you think that boats and the sharp objects are going to cut you then you might want to protect yourself.. this might mean mesh gloves or not going at all.

I think what Joe is saying is that he is thinking of the hobby in general. If we have guys getting cut. And there people that dont view things the way that some of us do (they like to blame others), then if somebody gets hurt we could have a bad cloud take shape over our hobby.

I say let the sharp objects fly.. My boats are going in the water with them and if you want to play boats and you are thinking you might get hurt... then you are the ones that understand the dangers and are likely going to ascertain less injury.

Having said this...I am the fist one to tell the new comer or non boater about the dangers of the boats.. I feel its my responsibility to make them aware.. however its there responsibility to act on it.

Grim

 

[aamick1971]

sounds like someone got too much time on their hands to do this topic!!any turn fin or skeg sharp or dull can cut.its like a bow and arrow a pointed tip can kill as well as a blut tip,that why never point anything like that in the wrong direction.then accidents would not happen.

allen

 

[Preston_Hall]

I got some time. A whole hour for lunch. :lol:

Actually, I think it is absolutely useless to have any hardware sharp enough to cut. First thing to hear now is how much speed is gained from a good "razor" sharp edge. Phoowey! Sharp (good edge), yes. "Razor" or "cutting" sharp, no.

I don't know if the razor thing was picked up from Andy but if it was then you may be missing the point. Unless I remember Andy incorrectly, they were running with no turn fin but determined they needed something. Upon looking through the tool box they saw an old razor blade and tried it. A small, straight, and stiff turn fin.

 

[tracerbob]

Anything can be inherently dangerous. I used to fly RC helicopters (or attempt to). Got bit several times. If you think boats are dangerous, follow this link.

http://www.heliguy.com/nexus/dangers.html

I guess the bottom line is..think about what your doing. My 2 cents worth.

 

[Preston_Hall]

Anything can be inherently dangerous.  I used to fly RC helicopters (or attempt to).  Got bit several times.  If you think boats are dangerous, follow this link.
http://www.heliguy.com/nexus/dangers.html

I guess the bottom line is..think about what your doing.  My 2 cents worth.

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Mine scared the ^%&$* out of me every time. Almost any one of the screws could come out and then LOOK OUT! A guy told me once that when learning you spend 50% of the time chasing it and the other 50% it chasing you.

 

[Joe_Knesek]

I think what Joe is saying is that he is thinking of the hobby in general. If we have guys getting cut. And there people that dont view things the way that some of us do (they like to blame others), then if somebody gets hurt we could have a bad cloud take shape over our hobby.

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What I failed to point out is that the boat I saw this weekend was being ran in the novice class. At the time the boat went out of control, a number of 10 to 12 year olds were in the pits. You can't expect them to have the same level on understanding the old timers have.

I realize the prop is just as sharp. I've had someone back into me with one while the boat running. The differance is that prop needs to be sharp. The turn fin doesn't. In my mind, a knife blade is overboard.

 

[Mark Bullard]

I feel that the accident that is in question is being used for more than it was. I saw the accident at the Internats an many mistakes were made. I was turn judging that end of the course. The race was over and all boats had returned to the pits except for one. His motor would not stop and was idling slowly on the pond, mistake #1. We all know that all boats should be able to be stopped from our radios. I told the driver to park the boat in the soft grass bank on the other side of the retrive boats if he would like to but then one of the course workers told him to bring it into the pits and he would catch it, mistake #2. I tried to tell them no that it was not a good idea but it was to late the driver had turn the boat to the pits and the course worker had stop the boat. The course worker did not make it known that he had injury himself at that time and went on to tend to himself. I talk to him later and feel like after he had the chance to think about what he had done he knew that he had made a bad mistake. The driver and the course worker where reasonably new to this hobby. It very hard to protect ourselfs from ourselfs but this is how accidents happen. Our sport has many ways to injury ourselfs or others we just need to step back and think about it before we jump into it.

Mark Bullard

IMPBA 9123 S/CD

 

[Brad Christy]

Guys,

I agree with alot that has been said, including what Joe started this thread with, to a point. I can just see some good for nothin' do-gooder catching wind of it and saying "My goodness! they're putting knives on their toy boats and driving them into the crowd at a hundred miles an hour!" While I know that this is definitely not the case, we all know how these idiots spin things out of whack. Maybe knives, in specific, are not such a good idea. Don't be lazy, make a real turn fin.

Now, we all know that a turn fin, rudder blade and prop will work better the sharper it is. I agree with what Preston says about a need for a "razor" edge. Anything beyond a nice clean edge is definitely heading into that "diminishing returns" range, but that nice clean edge will lay you open just as easily as a razor blade if you run against it with any force. I remember getting a new turn fin from Stu Barr for my Crapshooter at the '02 Internats. Upon installing it, I noticed is was much sharper than the one I took off. Not like a razor, but plenty sharp enough. Later that day, while cleaning the boat, I layed my forearm right open with it. Aside from jokingly asking Stu why he didn't tell me he had sold me a weapon, I place blame on nobody other than myself. These things happen.

You can regulate some things to a point of uselessness. This is definely one of those issues.

Thanks. Brad.

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