Remote 3rd channel needle

[Jack Brady]

Hello, when running a remote needle do you find that when you get the needle dialed in, that the numbers on the flow meter are richer, or lower than when not using the remote needle? When just going through the carb needle the numbers are around 17 higher than when going through the remote needle. Just wondering if this is normal.

 

[FloridaScaleBoater]

Before actually running the boat, the numbers are arbitrary.
The numbers are going to be different through different needles.

 

[Mike Hughes]

17 seems a little high. I have found that it will get you in around 5 or so difference. But like Rick said, there is no magic number. One other thing to consider is the needle dry or has it just come off a run. The oil/fuel on the needle that sits around a while will drain off. Giving you a different reading. You also could have a different needle since you dont have the standard needle perfect for that run. No way to tell, since you have to keep throwing it out and tweeking as you go. Not an instant response like just turning a knob and watching real time. No way to confirm with you eye that the standard got better or worse when going for the sweet spot. Just too much going on between run, return, measure, tweek, launch, bring up to temp, run and repeat.

The good news is you stepped up with the 3rd channel. You will never go back. Once you learn how your needles work for each type of boat, you can basically set your needles before you go to the pond with a new boat. Then dial it in on the first run. I have trouble shot fuel issue with other peoples boat that were struggling. I have numbers with my flow meter that I can check on their boat and get them in the ballpark. I just back it off 5. I dont use my flow meter during race day anymore. It is just a troubleshooting/setup tool now.

Mike

 

[Jack Brady]

Thanks guys, thats what I was trying to get at. If my numbers were supposed to be the same between the numbers from the carb needle opposed to flowing through the remote needle. I will continue to dial in the remote needle and that number will be whatever it is.

 

[FloridaScaleBoater]

Hello, when running a remote needle do you find that when you get the needle dialed in, that the numbers on the flow meter are richer, or lower than when not using the remote needle? When just going through the carb needle the numbers are around 17 higher than when going through the remote needle. Just wondering if this is normal.

One thing I just noticed in your post.
When going through just the carb needle.
Do you still have the card needle in place along with your remote needle?
If yes, the carb needle needs to be removed or backed all the way out.

 

[Mike Hughes]

One thing I just noticed in your post.
When going through just the carb needle.
Do you still have the card needle in place along with your remote needle?
If yes, the carb needle needs to be removed or backed all the way out.

Nice catch

 

[Jack Brady]

Yes I still have the carb needle still there but richened up. I may need to back the needle off more than I had it at. So next time I run it I am going to back the needle out more.

 

[Jack Brady]

Basically what I did was say without the remote needle the flow where it ran best was 80. So i richened the needle from there and set up the remote needle and in the middle of the throw I set the flow going through the remote needle to 80. At the pond that was now too lean, engine sagging out, I kept richening the remote needle till I was getting good runs. At that point the flow through the remote needle was around say 70.

 

[shoboat]

Jack,

So what does that tell us?
That the Third channel needle is restricted by about 10-points on your flow meter correct?
More restriction in the fuel path to the engine. That is good to know when installing a third channel in a new boat set up. Smart to run on the rich side of the needle. Jim Wilson always told me the reason for a third channel needle is to richen up the mixture a little bit once the engine warms up. About two or three hot laps. A lot use it backwards and lean the needle too much.

Thanks For The Post,

Mark Sholund

 

[Mike Cathey]

One thing I just noticed in your post.
When going through just the carb needle.
Do you still have the card needle in place along with your remote needle?
If yes, the carb needle needs to be removed or backed all the way out.

Or cut the tapered part of the old needle off.

 

[Mike Cathey]

Thanks guys, thats what I was trying to get at. If my numbers were supposed to be the same between the numbers from the carb needle opposed to flowing through the remote needle. I will continue to dial in the remote needle and that number will be whatever it is.

Are you flowing through the fuel filter? Also which way you have the needle plumbed can alter the flow meter readings. Most people that I race with have the fuel flowing from the bottom to the top. I don't know if it makes much difference, but the number will probably be different. I always flow through the filter and if I get a particularly lean reading it can mean that the filter has some crap in it. Before every race when I am prepping a boat to go racing I check the fuel filter and back flush the remote needle in both directions with Brakeclean. And then back flush a couple of times during the race day, particularly if I'm seeing big swings in the flow number.

 

[K F Wheeler]

Brakeclean doesn't hurt the O-rings? I've used Breakclean for cleaning a lot of things in the past.

Ken

 

[Mike Cathey]

Well it never has in my experience. It certainly doesn't affect brake caliper piston o-rings.

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Basically what I did was say without the remote needle the flow where it ran best was 80. So i richened the needle from there and set up the remote needle and in the middle of the throw I set the flow going through the remote needle to 80. At the pond that was now too lean, engine sagging out, I kept richening the remote needle till I was getting good runs. At that point the flow through the remote needle was around say 70.

Jack, with regard to the fuel flow chain, your meter flow number is going to be indicative of the point of maximum restriction.

The Barr/Violet needle is the choice of most high nitro racers. Why?...any cross sectional restriction is less than other 3rd channel assemblies.

Notice on the OS In Flight needle you're given 2 separate needles- that scenario points to 2 different tapers, dependent on engine size.

As some have mentioned, flow your system WITHOUT the 3rd channel in line, make sure there's NO needle restriction in the carburetor. Reinstall 3rd channel device, adjust the needle all the way out, and also the 3rd channel mechanism to full rich.
Take a flow reading....both readings should equate, if not, the restriction points to the 3rd channel apparatus.

Personally, I use both Barr/Violet and OS/Ferrette devices, but both are modified for greater fuel delivery in full rich status.

Regarding fuel blocks for the OS setup, there is none better than Don Ferrette's available in retail.

In finality, these engines and fuel delivery systems are NOT designed by the OEM 's to run on high nitro %'s.

 

[John Beardslee]

With the first flow meter Ron Logghe and I thought we would be able to eliminate the needle valve and go with a fixed jet (round hole), we weren’t successful the flow was affected by too many variables and we couldn’t hit the needle right very often. I’m still not convinced a 100 percent that with today’s sophisticated flow meters that it would be possible. The advantage of a round hole jet over a needle is still a worthwhile goal. I like the idea of an adjustable needle but would prefer an adjustable hole over a needle.