Outrigger plans

[BCS71]

What outrigger would you guys recommemd for being one of the best and fastest designs that the company sells plans for. I would love to have plans for a CMD Eagle SGX 21 but they don't have plans and probably wouldn't sell them separately if they did (and I'm not about to spend $500-$600 to reverse engineer the boat).

 

[Tofastformellow]

The fire fighter runs with the Sgx , and comes in a variety of sizes , in kits and plans , get in touch with Tom Moorehouse , for some info ,

the FF's were able to hold their own at the aus nats 06 !!

Jason

 

[BigRagu]

Fire Fighter Series of Riggers . . .Plans or Short Kits from .21 to 260 Zen (GAS) . . .from Tom Moorehouse.

Send him a PM he hosts this site.

Enjoy,

BigRagu

 

[TomMoorehouse]

Well I've never sold the plans for the FF21. I actually got them ready for sale recently but another person I know has a Very Good design that might be sold on the website very soon. So I did not want to mess that up. But the kit is pretty darn cheap I think.

Tom

 

[Ken Retallick]

My personal experience is dont bother with plans when there is a kit as cheap and easy to build as a Firefighter.

There as good as anything available. Im not fond of working with wood, but the Firefighter kit was a joy. very easy. I had one on the water in less than 3 weeks, including paint!

Ken

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

My personal experience is dont bother with plans when there is a kit as cheap and easy to build as a Firefighter.

There as good as anything available. Im not fond of working with wood, but the Firefighter kit was a joy. very easy. I had one on the water in less than 3 weeks, including paint!

Ken

We have all made claims of our own when it comes to building boats and the results of labor. I find this post interesting and would like to see if we can use it to make a real world comparison. As a marketing guy I am always interested in statistical data and real world measurable results.

The concern here is the cost of a "Ready-Made" compared to the more economical choice of building a kit.

Well... as I ran the numbers tossed around the this post this is what I came up with. My intent here would be to provide some sort of gauge for people to refer to when trying to decide whether to buy a ready-made compared to building themselves.

Based on what was said so far I come up with a cost of 500-$600 versus number of hours to build. It would create two basis categories. Those with more money than time and those with more time than money.

Based on 3 weeks... I am assuming one works an 8 hour day, comes home at 5 to 6pm and works possibly from 7 to 10pm on building projects three or 4 days out of the weekday and 2 weekends. With that I come up with, 3 to 5 hours a day (weekday) and 4 to 6 hours a day (weekend) gives a total from 9 to 16 hours (weekday) and 8 to 12 hours (weekend). This gives and approximate total of 27 to 32 hours (weekday) and 16 to 24 (weekend).

At 500 - $600 as a benchmark for kit it would cost from 8.92/hr to 10.71/hr to produce a kit based on the numbers suggested.

From what has been stated this would only include time to construct and paint. It doesn't include cost of kit, and materials. It also does not include the time that it would take in set-up and testing to acheive the same performance as the "ready-made" product.

So the question would be to ask yourself what is most economical for you... to spend your money or spend your time.

Most of us have heard the saying... "Time is money". Well I heard someone add to that... saying do not insult "Time" that way. Money can be recovered. Time cannot.

But I would like to see someone do a real-world comparison being as honest and objective as possible. How much time does it take to build a boat from scratch (or a kit in this case), set it up and test to acheive the performance of a popular ready-made kit?

 

[TomMoorehouse]

My personal experience is dont bother with plans when there is a kit as cheap and easy to build as a Firefighter.

There as good as anything available. Im not fond of working with wood, but the Firefighter kit was a joy. very easy. I had one on the water in less than 3 weeks, including paint!

Ken

We have all made claims of our own when it comes to building boats and the results of labor. I find this post interesting and would like to see if we can use it to make a real world comparison. As a marketing guy I am always interested in statistical data and real world measurable results.

The concern here is the cost of a "Ready-Made" compared to the more economical choice of building a kit.

Well... as I ran the numbers tossed around the this post this is what I came up with. My intent here would be to provide some sort of gauge for people to refer to when trying to decide whether to buy a ready-made compared to building themselves.

Based on what was said so far I come up with a cost of 500-$600 versus number of hours to build. It would create two basis categories. Those with more money than time and those with more time than money.

Based on 3 weeks... I am assuming one works an 8 hour day, comes home at 5 to 6pm and works possibly from 7 to 10pm on building projects three or 4 days out of the weekday and 2 weekends. With that I come up with, 3 to 5 hours a day (weekday) and 4 to 6 hours a day (weekend) gives a total from 9 to 16 hours (weekday) and 8 to 12 hours (weekend). This gives and approximate total of 27 to 32 hours (weekday) and 16 to 24 (weekend).

At 500 - $600 as a benchmark for kit it would cost from 8.92/hr to 10.71/hr to produce a kit based on the numbers suggested.

From what has been stated this would only include time to construct and paint. It doesn't include cost of kit, and materials. It also does not include the time that it would take in set-up and testing to acheive the same performance as the "ready-made" product.

So the question would be to ask yourself what is most economical for you... to spend your money or spend your time.

Most of us have heard the saying... "Time is money". Well I heard someone add to that... saying do not insult "Time" that way. Money can be recovered. Time cannot.

But I would like to see someone do a real-world comparison being as honest and objective as possible. How much time does it take to build a boat from scratch (or a kit in this case), set it up and test to acheive the performance of a popular ready-made kit?

if you can work uninterrupted, a good wood kit can be built in a weekend. This has been been proven many times by grimracer and his villan building parties. A firefighter can also be built in a solid weekend to the equivalent completion of a 80% eagle (or more so). So you have a $129 kit + 1 weekend. Or you have an eagle sgx 80%=$424 90%=$527. So with 1 weekend of solid work you can save like $250- $400 bucks. depending on your building costs like glue and how far you get in your building.

Building from scratch wont save you much more than the kit and it will take a lot longer. For me I can spare a weekend. I cant spare $400. some people can..... but that's just me.

Building from a kit is not for everyone. You can mess it up if you don't follow directions or have some basic skills and tools. With my kits I have tried to make it as easy as possible. I tried a bunch of different building methods to find the best combination of ease of construction, light weight, and performance. Like Ken said, wood wasn't his thing. But he built the kit and I believe the week he won the aussie nats was the first time it was in the water. Pretty darn good for a kit.

Great Job again Ken!

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

My personal experience is dont bother with plans when there is a kit as cheap and easy to build as a Firefighter.

There as good as anything available. Im not fond of working with wood, but the Firefighter kit was a joy. very easy. I had one on the water in less than 3 weeks, including paint!

Ken

We have all made claims of our own when it comes to building boats and the results of labor. I find this post interesting and would like to see if we can use it to make a real world comparison. As a marketing guy I am always interested in statistical data and real world measurable results.

The concern here is the cost of a "Ready-Made" compared to the more economical choice of building a kit.

Well... as I ran the numbers tossed around the this post this is what I came up with. My intent here would be to provide some sort of gauge for people to refer to when trying to decide whether to buy a ready-made compared to building themselves.

Based on what was said so far I come up with a cost of 500-$600 versus number of hours to build. It would create two basis categories. Those with more money than time and those with more time than money.

Based on 3 weeks... I am assuming one works an 8 hour day, comes home at 5 to 6pm and works possibly from 7 to 10pm on building projects three or 4 days out of the weekday and 2 weekends. With that I come up with, 3 to 5 hours a day (weekday) and 4 to 6 hours a day (weekend) gives a total from 9 to 16 hours (weekday) and 8 to 12 hours (weekend). This gives and approximate total of 27 to 32 hours (weekday) and 16 to 24 (weekend).

At 500 - $600 as a benchmark for kit it would cost from 8.92/hr to 10.71/hr to produce a kit based on the numbers suggested.

From what has been stated this would only include time to construct and paint. It doesn't include cost of kit, and materials. It also does not include the time that it would take in set-up and testing to acheive the same performance as the "ready-made" product.

So the question would be to ask yourself what is most economical for you... to spend your money or spend your time.

Most of us have heard the saying... "Time is money". Well I heard someone add to that... saying do not insult "Time" that way. Money can be recovered. Time cannot.

But I would like to see someone do a real-world comparison being as honest and objective as possible. How much time does it take to build a boat from scratch (or a kit in this case), set it up and test to acheive the performance of a popular ready-made kit?

if you can work uninterrupted, a good wood kit can be built in a weekend. This has been been proven many times by grimracer and his villan building parties. A firefighter can also be built in a solid weekend to the equivalent completion of a 80% eagle (or more so). So you have a $129 kit + 1 weekend. Or you have an eagle sgx 80%=$424 90%=$527. So with 1 weekend of solid work you can save like $250- $400 bucks. depending on your building costs like glue and how far you get in your building.

Building from scratch wont save you much more than the kit and it will take a lot longer. For me I can spare a weekend. I cant spare $400. some people can..... but that's just me.

Building from a kit is not for everyone. You can mess it up if you don't follow directions or have some basic skills and tools. With my kits I have tried to make it as easy as possible. I tried a bunch of different building methods to find the best combination of ease of construction, light weight, and performance. Like Ken said, wood wasn't his thing. But he built the kit and I believe the week he won the aussie nats was the first time it was in the water. Pretty darn good for a kit.

Great Job again Ken!

Good feedback,

I guess the other factor that needs to be introduced is if the builder is a novice boater/builder or experienced. That too would influence the results

 

[anthony_marquart]

One more thing to factor,

Many people REALLY enjoy the time they spend building their kits. It is time to themselves or friends they build with. Boat building time is never very stressfull, no one is nagging you, you do it the YOU want to. There is a level of satisfaction recieved when the kit you build goes ripping across the surface that I haven;t gotten using a purchased hull.

There is tremendous value in this. As stated before, it's not for everyone.

If you are looking at time / dollars,... At my current salary, if I charged the same per hour to build a boat. It would probably cost $2000. But since I'm salary it would be 2000 that I could never see anyway.

My kits are just as easy as Toms to build, maybe even easier to get built quare. I think it's a really good thing for a father and son to do together. You couldn't put a price on those hours if you had to.

 

[Ken Retallick]

Anthony, you hit the nail on the head!!

Many people enjoy building stuff. No matter if its a radio box, set of engine mounts, boat from plans, a kit etc.

The satisfaction of this cannot be bought with money!!

Others dont have the time, skills or inclination to do it themselves.

Each to there own. There are many manufactures who can supply anything from hardware to complete ready to race boats, myself included.

I built the Firefighter Kit, machined up the hardware, and painted it. I enjoy doing this. Yes i could drop $$$ on a ready to run boat and be competitive but i wouldnt enjoy that as much. Personal preference.

As Tom mentioned, first time the boat hit the water was in practice at the Aussie Nats. Nothing needed adjusting!! Ran as it came off the building board.

Ken

 

[BCS71]

I've already have a Dumas Hawk kit that I'm building and the plans that come with it. I really enjoy building the kit. I was just looking for a plan for a proven fast boat and was looking at the FF21 and the SGX 21. I like the SGX more because it looks sexy and sleek (or could just be the girls). The reason I want plans is because I want to build the boat not out of wood but completely out of carbon fiber and carbon fiber cloth. I have found a source that I can get it from all shapes and sizes and thicknesses relatively cheap. I figure with the increased rigidity, I can go thinner with the material and make the boat even lighter. I'll have access to a milling machine and a router at school and figured it would be cool and fun to build. I like building kits but after a while that gets boring. Kind of why I just got into boats recently since I was getting bored of building and racing RC cars.

 

[Speed Jr.]

I've already have a Dumas Hawk kit that I'm building and the plans that come with it. I really enjoy building the kit. I was just looking for a plan for a proven fast boat and was looking at the FF21 and the SGX 21. I like the SGX more because it looks sexy and sleek (or could just be the girls). The reason I want plans is because I want to build the boat not out of wood but completely out of carbon fiber and carbon fiber cloth. I have found a source that I can get it from all shapes and sizes and thicknesses relatively cheap. I figure with the increased rigidity, I can go thinner with the material and make the boat even lighter. I'll have access to a milling machine and a router at school and figured it would be cool and fun to build. I like building kits but after a while that gets boring. Kind of why I just got into boats recently since I was getting bored of building and racing RC cars.

You know if you build a dumas hawk correctly, with a few changes, it can run with anything. it did just win the spring nats. just saying, its all in the setup and prop, if you got that, you got a winner.

Larry Jr.

 

[P THOMAS]

Scratch building a boat from plans is the cheapest way to go. The extra work that involes cutting out the parts exactly like the plan shows takes time and accuracy to build the hull correctly.

The kits are good for some to do it teaches building skills with out the problem of part accuracy.

I think time and the skills of the boater determines what choice he makes, money is a concern for some but the costs of the radio , motor, hardware are all the same for each method.

The Fiberglass ready made boat hulls have several advantages. The manufacturer has done the design work, has done the work to insure the hull is square and assembled correctly, has done the setup testing to prove that the boat really does work as designed. The finish on the hull is ready to go or ready for prime and paint.

The better ready to run boats get you going the quickest with the least work. Some are pretty cheap but you can spend the bucks for some of the high end rtr boats too. The best almost ready to run riggers 80- 90 % done are priced with all the hard work done for you.

The boats I build are just fiberglass kits with the setup info. If some one requests one setup ready to paint the price will double, if it is to be painted add another $200.

Roger asks

But I would like to see someone do a real-world comparison being as honest and objective as possible. How much time does it take to build a boat from scratch (or a kit in this case), set it up and test to acheive the performance of a popular ready-made kit?

Roger, I have done the time/cost thing and it really adds up

The SUPERSPORT45 cost $295, setup $295, hardware parts $175, paint work $200

Close to $1000 thats why we like to do it ourselves.

Count all the time it takes to build a wood kit hull and setup and paint.

If you charge yourself for your time you wouldnt want to pay the price.

I dont think most people would consider the time it takes as part of the price.

(to acheive the performance of a popular ready-made kit?)

This is the bottom line thing most look at that want to race

WILL IT RUN AND WIN RACES

That is why you pay more for a ready made hull.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Scratch building a boat from plans is the cheapest way to go. The extra work that involes cutting out the parts exactly like the plan shows takes time and accuracy to build the hull correctly.

The kits are good for some to do it teaches building skills with out the problem of part accuracy.

I think time and the skills of the boater determines what choice he makes, money is a concern for some but the costs of the radio , motor, hardware are all the same for each method.

The Fiberglass ready made boat hulls have several advantages. The manufacturer has done the design work, has done the work to insure the hull is square and assembled correctly, has done the setup testing to prove that the boat really does work as designed. The finish on the hull is ready to go or ready for prime and paint.

The better ready to run boats get you going the quickest with the least work. Some are pretty cheap but you can spend the bucks for some of the high end rtr boats too. The best almost ready to run riggers 80- 90 % done are priced with all the hard work done for you.

The boats I build are just fiberglass kits with the setup info. If some one requests one setup ready to paint the price will double, if it is to be painted add another $200.

Roger asks

But I would like to see someone do a real-world comparison being as honest and objective as possible. How much time does it take to build a boat from scratch (or a kit in this case), set it up and test to acheive the performance of a popular ready-made kit?

Roger, I have done the time/cost thing and it really adds up

The SUPERSPORT45 cost $295, setup $295, hardware parts $175, paint work $200

Close to $1000 thats why we like to do it ourselves.

Count all the time it takes to build a wood kit hull and setup and paint.

If you charge yourself for your time you wouldnt want to pay the price.

I dont think most people would consider the time it takes as part of the price.

(to acheive the performance of a popular ready-made kit?)

This is the bottom line thing most look at that want to race

WILL IT RUN AND WIN RACES

That is why you pay more for a ready made hull.

Nice... Good feedback

 

[Marty Slater]

if you can take some bodys plans [JD Tom M] an make it work that is PRICELESS

to me that is what it is all about never mind the comerodery that it also brings to the lake

an the satisifcation that it gives you when tell John Doe that it was made out of some plans

Marty