Notice from rcRacingEvents.com

Intlwaters

Help Support Intlwaters:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
As long as that pit man is not in your class.... here is the bottom line.. whether one is doing it or not.

ONE CAN.... CHOOSE WHO.. NOT to race with. The idea was NEVER to be able to dictate that.

Is it happening.. no.. maybe.. yes.. but the truth of the matter is one CAN.

in the end that IS AN ISSUE.. I hope IMPBA can update this and it can be done.

Grim
 
Here is my last take! Why anybody thought the solution was best forged through a non-sanctioning body i.e. RCRE is alarming! Seems to me many have the need to get their own mandates out there during this mandate heavy era!!!

Answer me this...which position is trying to promote RC Boating and which position is trying to restrict RC Boating? Every Club's race is a product. Does your product's performance promote competitors wanting to return or push them away?

Lastly, remember any deviation to current IMPBA rules must be listed on the race's flyer. This way your competitors / customers can decide if your event is worthy or their participation. Every non DSM radio must be used with a club provided frequency clip...no exceptions.
 
What happened to people just helping each other out when needed ?
I have never not pitted or run retrieve boat when asked or when it was needed...

Nobody is perfect when pitting...
Hell, I have had my boat thrown in upside down once or twice... it happens...
I help the twin guys out, because I know how hard they can be to get running sometimes and thrown in properly...

But you will be amazed how much people will be willing to help you out,, if you help them out too... Some people just have too big of a chip on their shoulder...
 
Look,

All I am doing is trying to provide a service to the clubs that is in accordance with our hobbies rules. When an issue comes up I am obligated to assist no matter if I agree with it or not.

I do feel as if I am partly to blame here.

On a lighter note, for the second time in my life, I have found that I have made an impact(for better or worse) on a huge number of people's lives. The first being my code contributions to an application called Morpheus. A music file-sharing application that literally millions of people used to use daily, and now this. LOL

For years(10+) I have not addressed the issue of FM frequencies in the entry process correctly. And I have been aware of that but had never fixed it. So to be completely honest this entire issue is probably of my doing(or lack thereof).

When a person enters on FM frequencies (primary and alternate), Those frequencies are supposed to be unavailable for any other entrants in that class, for that event, as they become the registered frequencies for the original entrant. You are supposed to find alternate frequencies to enter on. No one else in that class may enter under an FM frequency that has already been taken by another entrant(Primary and alternate frequencies being separated to individual categories).

That's what alternate frequencies are for. Due to a long outstanding bug, rcRacingEvents did not enforce this.

In other words, If someone enters gas cat using pri 75, and alt 77, no one else entering gas cat should be able to enter on those same pri and alt frequencies. You can enter as pri 77 and alt 75 if you find that someone has already entered with your frequencies.

That's how it is supposed to work.

When two contestants enter on the same FM frequencies(when they shouldn't be able to in the first place) and when they are actually using 2.4 radios I cannot help but believe that they are actively and mindfully choosing to exploit the FM bug in rcRacingEvents to create a desired outcome. And now that directors and clubs have started to bring this to my attention, I understand that it is this bug that is the issue, and I must as a service to the hobby finally address it and correct it.

The fact that rcRacingEvents has never corrected that bug has given a lot of racers in my opinion, the belief that entering in this fashion is "normal" or "ok" when in fact it is not.

I am in the process of correcting this bug and doing that alone should rectify the majority of the issue. Although I will get a ton of heat for it, it is the proper thing to do.

I did look into the NAMBA (I'll look into IMPBA later) rulebook today and found this relevant sentence in section 16, page 2, (B-1) which I believe addresses the elephant in the room:

"Drawing for races will generally be done by random selection of compatible frequencies and with no regard to specific entries, contestants, and/or boats. "

I believe that sentence means you enter, and take your chances who you race against, it says nothing about a pitman being exclusive to you, In fact, it says the opposite. with no regard for contestants.

Keyword being "Contestants" ie. other racers. The fact that another racer may be your pitman is irrelevant. I myself have a dedicated pitman. And we have both made a conscious decision to not run the same classes.

It's this FM "bug" in rcRacingEvents that has been used to circumvent the spirit of the statement in the rule book above for too long. It has been tolerated to the point that it is now commonly accepted. This is the crux of the problem.

I will admit I have been guilty of this in the past, as a number of fellow racers are as well. But at some point when the abuse becomes systemic (I hate that word) we all must agree that it's time to correct it.

Bill
 
Last edited:
The only exception that I can see that's valid is in the case of a disability. In our club there's a disabled racer and he's already up on the driver's stand at the start of the clock because he couldn't get up there fast enough (or possibly get injured if he tried), and his pitman starts and launches the boat. This takes a some rehearsing.

Not sure if an accommodation could be made for this or not in the programming.

Thanks for your work on the scoring programs.
 
The only exception that I can see that's valid is in the case of a disability. In our club there's a disabled racer and he's already up on the driver's stand at the start of the clock because he couldn't get up there fast enough (or possibly get injured if he tried), and his pitman starts and launches the boat. This takes a some rehearsing.

Not sure if an accommodation could be made for this or not in the programming.

Thanks for your work on the scoring programs.

That's why clubs have the ability to accommodate anyone as they see fit.
 
Last edited:
That's why clubs have the ability to accommodate anyone as they see fit.
I will also admit I’ve used this practice of entering FM also. Not every time , but some. You asked - Why is your pitman running in your classes ? In the cases that I’ve done it, it was a local boater that saw us running boats at a local Park, took interest and liked what he saw in the classes I run. So, he built boats in those classes. Traveling 10-15 hours in most cases, it worked well because we didn’t need to find a pitman . I was also bringing a new boater into it and coaching along the way. If it’s a shootout format and you both race at the end , its much easier to find a pitman for 1-2 heats . Like some have pointed out, F hydro and Twin is a little different when it comes to a pitman. Hopefully clubs will still consider this. I was at a race and witnessed the need for a person in twin class. We heard all kinds of reasons why they couldn’t deal with a twin . One was “ Man my Rotator Cup has being killing me “ —People Laughed and someone even asked (sarcastically) “ Did you mean your Rotator Cuff “ ? lol. Back problems, knees, you name it a lot of people don’t like launching a twin. Most are only 15-17 lbs ….. But.. still a problem . I’ve never witnessed a case were it did not work out at races personally , even when a couple of other racers did it also. So I hope people will consider the real reasons people have choose to do it especially in the bigger classes. Jeff Lutz
 
Someone ask where all of the conflict was at which race. I went up to racingevents.com and did a little research. Most of the races are still building and classes are still being made. Were there a few conflicts that I saw, not that I could tell as of yet if it would be a problem. The race that I saw the most of friends helping each other was the Randy Premo Race. First class that I saw was GX Cat, this class had 1 conflict but with 8 boats. So two 4 boat heats and there is no problem. Next class GX Mono with 1 conflict and 10 boats. There again two 5 boat heats no problem. The P limited class 1 conflict but with 8 boats. Two 4 boat heats. Problem solved. And the last heat Q Limited Tunnel. It has 1 conflict with 9 boats. So one 4 boat heat and one 5 boat heat. Now I am sure that if it comes to it that they can one have one heat that the 2 boaters running the same channel will be happy to run each other. I would not even call the racers to let them know because they know how this works and are not dumb. I would just let them know when I see them at the race so they would have time to get set up. And they would be fine with that.
I have many years of putting heats together on many very large races. I do know a lot of racers. And there has been times that I have called some of the racers knowing that they run with someone and ask if they want me to keep them split up so that they could help each other. And they were very happy that I did contact them on the matter. Some wanted for me to keep them split and some did not mind.

This is how you put on a great race. And I agree that it is not up to Bill to cover this so called problem. And I do not see a problem other than little people wanting to place mandates on everyone. We have enough of that going on right now.
 
Someone ask where all of the conflict was at which race. I went up to racingevents.com and did a little research. Most of the races are still building and classes are still being made. Were there a few conflicts that I saw, not that I could tell as of yet if it would be a problem. The race that I saw the most of friends helping each other was the Randy Premo Race. First class that I saw was GX Cat, this class had 1 conflict but with 8 boats. So two 4 boat heats and there is no problem. Next class GX Mono with 1 conflict and 10 boats. There again two 5 boat heats no problem. The P limited class 1 conflict but with 8 boats. Two 4 boat heats. Problem solved. And the last heat Q Limited Tunnel. It has 1 conflict with 9 boats. So one 4 boat heat and one 5 boat heat. Now I am sure that if it comes to it that they can one have one heat that the 2 boaters running the same channel will be happy to run each other. I would not even call the racers to let them know because they know how this works and are not dumb. I would just let them know when I see them at the race so they would have time to get set up. And they would be fine with that.
I have many years of putting heats together on many very large races. I do know a lot of racers. And there has been times that I have called some of the racers knowing that they run with someone and ask if they want me to keep them split up so that they could help each other. And they were very happy that I did contact them on the matter. Some wanted for me to keep them split and some did not mind.

This is how you put on a great race. And I agree that it is not up to Bill to cover this so called problem. And I do not see a problem other than little people wanting to place mandates on everyone. We have enough of that going on right now.
You don't see a problem because the race that was impacted by the FM "abuse" was modified. The result is now that everyone who had falsely entered on FM frequencies are now on DSM, and only DSM is allowed for entry in that race with exceptions made by the club at their discretion only.

A lot happens in the background that racers don't see or even hear about. Just because you don't see or hear about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I personally find the push-back on the FM abuse issue to be worrisome. I have explained the correct way that FM frequencies are supposed to be handled. Just because rcRacingEvents did not process these entries correctly in the past doesn't mean that it was ok.

The bug/issue is now fixed.

Any exceptions will now be solely handled at the club's discretion, rather than rcracingEvents allowing incorrect FM entries being posted that the clubs then have to do extra work by "fixing" after the fact.

In plain speak, effective today, you will now need to get an exception from the hosting club if your pitman is racing in your class, rather than rcRacingEvents giving it automatically without the club's explicit approval.

As it should be.
 
Last edited:
Just to reiterate for anyone who missed it.

The FM frequency bug during the entry process has now been corrected.

Effective today, you will now need to get an exception from the hosting club if your pitman is racing in your class, rather than rcRacingEvents giving it automatically without the club's explicit approval.

As it should be.
 
Last edited:
Ok guys... I'm going to ruffle some feathers here... Well some of those feathers NEED to be ruffled!!! Every body is skirting part of the problem. Some are not aware of the problem. MANY ARE part of the problem!! How many of you helped pit for someone, ONE time other than your USUAL buddy??? I'm not saying every time that other guy comes up to race every time. And I know everyone can't because of physical reasons. Come on!!! You think that new comer doesn't see that? You think that guy that's only been racing a year or two might not appreciate a hand by being his pit man for a heat? A word of caution here guys... You might actually be some HELP! Or worse!!! You may accidentally teach him something!!!! Can't have that!! I first started racing I had the mis conception that the heats were set up so that everyone would get to race everyone. I for one would prefer to see it that way. I will admit there was an occasion that made me glad that I didn't very often have to race a certain person. Especially when that person made it clear he was trying to push me off my line. Three times/heats in a row!!! I Don't know everything! And I'm just as likely to say so and quite possibly will say that before you get a chance to! But I'm going to try and help any way I think I can! The BEST I can. I make a suggestion... It's just that! A SUGGESTION!!! Get a little back more to the point... I'd like to see EVERYBODY be as good as they can be! If you beat a person are you going to be as happy as you might be, if you had helped him by pointing out something he may have over looked? Would you not more likely take another look at something YOU might have been over looking? Maybe even something you had forgot about? Or been putting off?? Isn't that going to make YOU FASTER!??! I look at launching or pitting for someone as a PRIVALAGE!!! Yeah you read that right!! Some of you guys act as though you don't ever need any help! For ANY reason!! How about if the retrieve boat just happened to forget to pick up your boat? Or a boat happens to stuff and you don't SEE that boat that's right in your lane???Point is You won't die by helping!! I haven't...
 
Really,
I run FM and because DSM radio users are creating a problem at one race with 19 racers. Now you want to eliminate FM radios and or get special permission? Spend money on replacing 2 good radios and 12 rec. Do you think some will stop boating or not attend DSM races? Great way to promote the hobby. Man up and address the problem at a club, District level!! Not Rcracingevents Because it is not a problem at the majority of the races.
I also believe in letting racers have there pit person when possible. Remember this about having fun!! This is Fun Right?
 
Last edited:
Are there so many who think this is absolutely necessary, and this one frenq per entry must be implemented to improve the RC Boating experience?

I implore one to think of your flyer as a sales pitch of your product/race. Are you willing to publish and polarize some potential customers over this non-issue? Is this why some went to a nonsanctioned entity to implement this topic? Remember the random setting up of heats is to be done based on frenq compatibility. There is not a list forbidding the reasons for how non-campatibility was obtained.

Good luck if you believe this will heighten the boating expirence, for my money will be at Mark Bullard's events and those alike. In return any race I am listed as a CD, I will accomadte my customer in the best manner possible. If there is room for you not to run your pit guy...YOU GOT IT!!!
 
Me personally I would rather attend races that are shootout format I don't like the idea of traveling 6 to 10 hrs to a race and know that club is going to set up heats so they don't have to race there friends aka pit man like I say I don't have a traveling pit man this is just my opinion Jeff Barnes
 
Why is everyone hell-bent on fighting this???

When you are running DSM radios in your boats but enter as FM, In my opinion, that is a fraudulent entry. What you are doing is taking frequencies away from someone who may actually need them.

FM frequencies are still available for entry just as they always have except now they can no longer be abused by those who are actually using 2.4.

The duty of giving exceptions for frequencies is NOT rcRacingEvents. But people have been using rcRacingEvents to do exactly that.

THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE DOING IT IS TO AVOID RACING YOUR PITMAN. AND THAT DECISION IS UP TO THE CLUB. NOT YOU, NOT YOUR PITMAN, NOT RCRACINGEVENTS.


Bottom line - if you are using a 2.4 radio and you enter as FM to avoid racing your pitman, you're wrong. You must ask the club for that exception.

rcRacingEvents will no longer be used to circumvent NAMBA or IMPBA rules, and it will no longer be used to manipulate who races who.

Nothing has changed except now you will need to request that exception from the hosting club rather than getting it by default using unscrupulous means via a fraudulent entry on rcRacingEvents.

If you don't want to race your pitman, Ask the club for an exception. Why does that seem to piss everyone off???

Full period, stop.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top