New to hydro and need some help please

[Lamar_Huff]

I worked on a Miss Elam hydro for a guy in our club a while back. It appears to be very similar to your boat. If you want it to turn take that mickey mouse turn fin off throw it in the pond (I'm not joking) and get a fin from Blazer Marine. You will have to make a bracket for it, but with a hacksaw, 12" disc sander, file, and some elbow grease it can be done relatively easily. I took the clutch, water pump, and all the other non-essential stuff off the boat and set it up direct drive. His had a modded 25.4 in it and the biggest prop we could get it to launch with was a 6516/3. Seems kinda small, but it let the motor rev up and was actually more speed than the boat could handle. This hull was never designed to go 70mph. It was meant to look nice riding around with a stock small block in it. If you need to make angle adjustments to the strut you can add washers either the front or rear screws as pictured below. It's a balancing act between strut and fin angle to get the boat to ride properly. When I was done with it... the boat had a nice ride attitude and could turn pretty tightly around a regulation course. You still had to be quick on the throttle as it would get upset from time to time on the straights, but it was significantly better than what you show in the video above. Good luck and have fun chasing more speed and handling!

 

[Ryan paluski]

Thanks for that info @Hydro Junkie and @SayMikey I can snap some shots after work but I can say it has sharp lines and not completely rounded

@Lamar_Huff thank you for that also. The boat is setup as direct drive as well

 

[Wasted wages]

As I said,,, I'm not a scale owner and was hoping that some other guys would see this thread and respond....and I'm glad they did!!

They have been down a few of these roads before and should be able to get you hooked up. Good luck with your hull, and get some more videos once it's up and running!!

 

[BrianBrownlee]

I found this also when doing mine

 

[Ryan paluski]

I appreciate all the help I can get! And absolutely I'll post more videos I'll also make another thread once I receive the seaducer hydro

 

[DON MAHER]

Also a common mistake for setting the needles on the 257 is reversing the settings. Starting point should be 1 on the high and 2 on the low! Adjust from there as needed. Some very good advice from some people who have “Been there and Done that”!

 

[Rich Jones]

Also a common mistake for setting the needles on the 257 is reversing the settings. Starting point should be 1 on the high and 2 on the low! Adjust from there as needed. Some very good advice from some people who have “Been there and Done that”!

Absolutely Don I had that *** backwards. That’s how my Backlash is set. I just got it spun around in my head.

 

[Ryan paluski]

Thanks guys. I too took note of seeing the reverse of the settings and adjusted as needed. I try to get the engine idling on its own then work on tuning for performance.


Cool write up on that guy's miss bud! I don't think I'll be that extensive with the front canard I'd like to be able to take the boat out and have it performed somewhat as it should

 

[DON MAHER]

Absolutely Don I had that *** backwards. That’s how my Backlash is set. I just got it spun around in my head.

Like I said it’s a very common mistake! Lol

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Cool write up on that guy's miss bud! I don't think I'll be that extensive with the front canard I'd like to be able to take the boat out and have it performed somewhat as it should

I was reading through that thread in the other forum and found I had a few posts in it as well. Many of the posts were about how to "Bandaid" the boat to get it to run well. That included the deal with the front canard. I do have to agree with one guy's post, the Pro Boat Budweiser(and by extension, the Elam Plus and any other boat out of the same molds) were not designed to run fast but, rather, to look good. Another option tried, that would have worked better if the person had gone all the way, was to cut the tails off. He left about an inch high stub above the deck where removing it all together and making new, lighter tails and wing would have helped probably more than what he did. What I also noticed was, at the end of the thread, the guy posted a video of him and another guy showing him running his boat while standing, at times, almost knee deep in the water. The thread died after I made a comment about the unsafe nature of doing so. Guess he didn't want to be the subject of a "What not to do" post.

 

[Ryan paluski]

Thanks @Hydro Junkie I think I'm going to pour more effort into my seaducer hydro at this point. I'm ok with just hanging up the budweiser boat

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Thanks @Hydro Junkie I think I'm going to pour more effort into my seaducer hydro at this point. I'm ok with just hanging up the budweiser boat

I'm not. You have already put some work into it and, personally, I would like to see it running as much as you would. That said, if you want to use the Seaducer as a boat to learn with, I'm in total agreement but don't just give up on the Bud. It can be made into a nice running boat with a bit of work and some experimentation. Just remember, setting up and learning to drive a hydroplane isn't something you can learn over night. There are many guys in this forum that know a lot more than I do and I've been in the hobby since 1982.

 

[Ryan paluski]

Fair enough and I also agree that I want nothing more than to see that miss bud acting proper in the water. I also agree that seeing how many factors it takes to get a hydro to run right takes time and understanding so I need to start with the basics from what was said. Finding cg, ditching the stock turn fin and rudder. Now my question is with what was mentioned above with chopping off and redoing the rear wing and tails is it necessary to lop them off? I would think that alot of unnecessary weight is added over the rear with that setup? Are 3 blade props more suited to hydro? Or is a 2 blade cleaver better? I dont want to give up on the hydro as I've been searching for one for the past 2 years

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Fair enough and I also agree that I want nothing more than to see that miss bud acting proper in the water. I also agree that seeing how many factors it takes to get a hydro to run right takes time and understanding so I need to start with the basics from what was said. Finding cg, ditching the stock turn fin and rudder. Now my question is with what was mentioned above with chopping off and redoing the rear wing and tails is it necessary to lop them off? I would think that alot of unnecessary weight is added over the rear with that setup? Are 3 blade props more suited to hydro? Or is a 2 blade cleaver better? I dont want to give up on the hydro as I've been searching for one for the past 2 years

Okay, I'm going to take these one by one so just bare with me on this:

Fair enough and I also agree that I want nothing more than to see that miss bud acting proper in the water. I also agree that seeing how many factors it takes to get a hydro to run right takes time and understanding so I need to start with the basics from what was said. Finding cg, ditching the stock turn fin and rudder.

And most of that was addressed by some of us in previous posts. What wasn't said is how similar some of these factors are to setting up an airplane. An improperly balanced airplane is doomed to crash. In fact, in the owners documentation that comes with a plane like a Cessna 172 Skyhawk, it actually gives a chart that shows where the weight needs to be located in that airplane to fly properly. To be outside of the given range, you're looking at an unstable aircraft that is looking for that little issue that will put it out of control and into the ground. This is the situation we have to deal with when building and setting up a boat.

Now my question is with what was mentioned above with chopping off and redoing the rear wing and tails is it necessary to lop them off?

In a word, NO. What the guy in the other thread did was to cut the tails off roughly an inch above the deck. While this helped with the weight issue, it had a negative affect on the boat's stability. I know some of the limited class manned boats don't have tails at all and none have the wing. Many R/C hydros also don't have tails or a wing. Truth be told, they are just aerodynamic drag. With the unlimited boats, the tail(s) was/were added to help keep the boat going straight. This was due to a previously unknown reaction to only half of the prop being in the water that became known as "prop walk". Long story short, while the prop is pushing the boat forward, it is also acting like a paddle wheel and pushing the boat's rear to the side. That is why full sized boats turn left and our models turn right, to take advantage of the propwalk. The wing was added to the Pay'N Pak in 1973 as a way to help stabilize the boat and keep it running level. It performs the same function on an R/C. Why I said he should have gone all the way to the deck and added lighter ones is the wing and tails on the Bud are heavy. An aftermarket set from someplace like R/C Boat Company are thinner and lighter, keeping the weight down and still doing the job

Are 3 blade props more suited to hydro? Or is a 2 blade cleaver better?

Either one will work. There are trade offs with each. A 2 blade can be faster in the straights due to less weight, less engine load and less propwalk. I know my scale Elam has a bit of left rudder set in to keep the boat going straight just for that reason, running a two blade Prather prop. A 3 blade, on the other hand, can make a boat turn tighter but will cost a bit of top end in the straights due to the same factors being reversed when compared to a 2 blade. Due to a more pronounced prop walk, a bit more left rudder needs to be set in to keep the boat going straight, adding hydrodynamic drag

 

[Ryan paluski]

So my next question for you guys is what to use as weight to get the balance right?
I used a scale and I have about 3.5lbs sitting on the strut.

1st issue I can't get my hand inside the sponsons because it's to tight and can't properly anchor the weights in each sponson.

2. It took 4lbs of weight to get the boat to balance about 2ish inches back from the rear of the sponsons and the weight was on the front canard.

3. I feel my only option is to add the weight in front of the gas tank in the cockpit but if I do that I'd think it would be about 6lbs of weight there and I don't think that would be ok for the long run..

Any solutions?

 

[Hydro Junkie]

That verifies that the boat is extremely tail heavy.
You said it took 4 lbs of weight on the canard to get it to balance, so now you need to test it out. If you can get your hands on some of the stick on weights, put around 3 lbs total on the front of the sponson decks and then run it. You might want to put on a lifting prop as well as it should reduce the weight needed. After a few test runs, give us a shout and let us know how things went. I wouldn't go with 6 lbs in the cockpit if you can avoid it as that's extra weight that you don't want to carry

 

[brad nichols]

Lead shot if you can find it or steel mixed with epoxy poured into a hole in the sponson tips and taped over, then stand the boat on it's nose untill dry.

Brad

 

[Ryan paluski]

So I ended up using 5- 8oz egg shaped fishing sinkers per side and stuffed them inside a pool noodles cut it down and shoved them in the sponsons. The CG is roughly 2 inches maybe a tiny bit more behind the rear of the sponsons now... and if I balance at the 1.5" mark I have about 1.2lbs on the strut now from 3.5lbs

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Brad, that would have been my next post AFTER he had tested with the stick on weights.
Ryan, at this point, you need to give it a test run or two and see what the boat does. You may not need more weight to get the results you're looking for. If it does, it shouldn't be much and, as an alternative to more weight, you might try a lifting prop. Mark Sholund(he goes by Shoboat here in the forum) should be able to help you out on that one though he might want to see a video(then again many of us would) before suggesting a prop

 

[Ryan paluski]

Absolutely and I thank everybody for helping me I really appreciate it ... ill have the boat in the water sometime tomorrow but right now I'm just doing a bit of copying from the guys thread on the other forum. I cut the lexan out of the cowl and im using stainless mesh I had left over from the fountain. @Hydro Junkie at this point should I try with the 6717 3 prop again or use a 2 blade I have? I also just received a 2nd hand bonzi aluminum tuned pipe with a 1" band so im curious if it helps and I do like the pipe on my fountain. Also forgot to mention I did order a WTC header for the hydro and yea im going to trim the cowl