New .21 outrigger

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Saugling >> Pipe seems quite long too me... >> It has a bulit in silencer.

Managed to finish the hull last week. Made a short engine break in this morning.

Where should I put the trailing edge of the front sponsons (relative to the CG) ?

Some say an about 1" away from CG, some put the sponsons so far that is hard

to belive that the rigger ever comes on plane. What is the general rule ?

Here are some new pictures:

outrigger-v2-33.jpg


outrigger-v2-44.jpg


outrigger-v2-470.jpg
 
I think you will need your front sponsons and boom tubes installed before you can worry about CG. I have always heard the CG should be about somewhere between the center of the turn fin to the TE of the turn fin. Your boat does look good never seen some things done the way you are doing them.

Paul
 
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When I said the pipe seems long to me, I did not think about the overall pipe length. I think it is quite long measured from your glow plug to the widest point of the conical pipe-part, I would guess it is more than 25cm, isn't it?
 
Saugling I took some measurements:

0-11.5 cm -> straigth pipe

11.5-22 cm -> conical part

22-25 cm -> from end of conical part to start of silencer (I think so since I can't see in the silencer)

It is supposed to be designed for motors up to 5 cm3.

Anyone else on have some comment on pipe length, sponson design, CG, and sponson position ?
 
Hi,

I noticed the holes you made for you boom tubes to travel thru the tub are elongated, are you going to put drain holes in the bottom left corner of the tank compartment and engine compartment? Also have you had success with all the screws/holes before in the water, I am talking about the 11 mount points on the exterior of the radio box (10 for screws and 1 for you water pick up)? I am not sure if other do this but I add a little silicon to my screws so I don't get water in the radio box. Water and radio are a terrible combination :(

Paul
 
since you are building from sight and from your mind instead of plans, I think you are doing one hell of a job.

Cliff
 
To find the CG on a rigger generally you will find that it is about 15 percent of the measurement of the after plane example 20 " from rear of the sponsons to the rear of the boat - 15 percent would put the CG 3 " behind the fornt sponsons the trailling edge of the turn fin should be 7/8 to 3/4 ahead of the CG .

Hope this will help

Gary

FCM Racing
 
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gooycheese - I made draing holes on the bottom in the tank and engine compartment. I had no problems with leaks trough holes in my electric riggers (I use no silicone), water somethimes comes in the hull trough the drive shaft.

Rokieboater - The zip tie seems to hold quite well for now - will leave it like this and see how it will hold.

shadow - >> "since you are building from sight and from your mind" - I have plans. Check the begining of the thread.
 
Tested the boat yesterday - not a real success <_< <_<

Can anyone help me with some problems:

1 - A lot of water accumulates in the engine/tank department - should I enlarge the drain holes, close them, make new ones on the tub sides ?

2 - The rear end of the boat hopps (prop comes out of water)

3 - Should I make a bigger hole in the rear of the cowl to allow more air in ?

Any tips how to adjust the low/high speed needle since I had a lot of trouble

getting the engine to run properly

Latest pics:

r1.jpg


r2.jpg


r3.jpg
 
>>Can anyone help me with some problems:

>>

>>1 - A lot of water accumulates in the engine/tank department - should I enlarge the drain holes, close them, make new ones on the tub sides ?

>>2 - The rear end of the boat hopps (prop comes out of water)

>>3 - Should I make a bigger hole in the rear of the cowl to allow more air in ?

>> Any tips how to adjust the low/high speed needle since I had a lot of trouble getting the engine to run properly

Welcome to Iwaters. Here' my take on some of your questions above.

1. I run ~3/8" holes in the fuel and engine compartment. Heres a trick with drain holes.

Cut a piece of radio box tape 1.5" long. Fold over (sticky side to sticky side) the last 3/4" so you end up with a 3/4" sticky tap and 3/4" nonsticky "flap". Position the "flap" over the drain hole and the sticky side towards the front of the boat and press. The thought is to make a semi one way valve so the water cannot go from outside the boat to inside but can flow from inside to outside.

2. rear of the boat hopping is a common problem. Which prop are your using? What is the stut angle and depth, what is the angle of attack on the rear sponsons? I run 1 - 1.5 degree AOA on my rear sponsons. Strut angle is very close to flat. Strut depth (bottom of the strut) is near flush with the rear sponsons. You can reduce some slight hop by "cupping" the ears on the prop. This reduces the lift and increases the pitch (don't goo too far) :)

3. You want as big if a hole as you can get so you don't suck a vaccum under the cowl. If you suspect this is a problem. run the boat without a cowl and see if it the motor runs differently. If so your cowl may be too restrictive.

4. Without a flow meter its hard to tell you an easy way to adjust the low needle. Typically what I'll do is turn the low end dead rich and adjust the high end first. The motor will not idle so keep it cleaned out on the beach. O the beach, I rev the engine form between say 1/3 to 2/3 throttle to keep it cleaned out. When on the water, run Wide open on the pipe for a few laps and bring it in. If you are not getting on the pipe, you ahve a new set of debugging. (too rich, too lean, wrong prop, pipe length, sponson angle,etc)

Some excellent reading on nitro boat setup Marty Davis' page. He is on this board as well

<a href="http://www.rcboat.com/past.htm" target="_blank">http://www.rcboat.com/past.htm</a>

A few observations/questions for you.

1) what is the goal for this boat? Is it for fun at the local pond or for organized competition races? The amount of setup is vastly different between the two.

2) The vast majority or nitro boaters don't run the teflon tube in the stuffing box. This tube will get worn and cause a mess. I'd get rid of it and use a brass tubing (I think it 1/4" diameter. There is one that just fits over the flex cable, get the next size up from that one) with some light grease or gear oil. Don't use motor oil as it can cause problems with the rubber pushrod seals.

3) Is that a plastic prop? I'd recommend going with a metal prop (Octural 1445 or 1450 are good starting props) Lots of other,faster choices here too once you get it going reliably you can tune from there. Make sure you sharpen and balance them before using.

4) The fronts of you sponsons looks wide and will tend to catch air. If you find that the boat wants to fly off the water at speed, you might consider narrowing the fronts of the sponsons.

5) The plumbing in your fuel tank. Don't follow the suggestion of the tank manufacturer with the flex tubing and a counter weight sump. This is for airplanes. What I do is bend the tubing so the fuel is drawn directly from the bottom left hand corner of the tank that is closest to the motor. The fuel will sloch this way when the boat is making a right hand trun and accelerating. Bend the vent tube to the usual location or all the way to the front upper right hand corner (opposite corner from the fuel pickp). Its sometimes easier to get the tubings in the tank when the vent goes to the front corner.

6) Typically we run the water pickup built into the rudder. I'm looking at the brass tubing hanging off the back and trying to figure out if that causes drag or not since it is in the roster tail. Having the water pickup in the rudder that a whole lot cleaner and you're assured to get water to the engine.

7) What plugs are you using? Don't use too cold of a plug (Mcoy#9). K&B 1L or Mccoy MC#59 are good choices. both should be avaialble at ~$3.00 each on the net. What % nitro are your using?

There are lots more but my fingers are tired. If you have more questions, ask away. Good luck!
 
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Dan, thanks for the tips.

1. My holes are .157" in diameter (~4 mm) - I will try to enlarge to see if it helps - the trick with the tape for the drain holes is really nice.

2. I'm using Graupner carbon props (got 40-42-45-48-51 mm in diameter (pitch is 1.4x diameter)) - I will try to get some Octura props, but I have to order

them from US since here in EU they sell them at some absurd prices. I was also thinking of cutting the ears a little.

3. When I put the cowl on the boat the engine seems to slow down a little - will make a bigger hole on the rear.

>> A few observations/questions for you.

1) what is the goal for this boat? - Just for fun at the local pond.

2) teflon tube - will change that

4) The fronts of you sponsons looks wide and will tend to catch air. -> will see how it handles - have to settle the hopping

5) The plumbing in your fuel tank. It is setup like in an airplane -> Why is it better to run just bent tubes ?

6) Typically we run the water pickup built into the rudder. -> probably less drag than the pickup in the rudder - we all run that way in small electric boats.

No problems with water supply either.

7) What plugs are you using? -> I'm using Novarossi C5 plugs. 25% nitro.
 
Dan, thanks for the tips.

1. My holes are .157" in diameter (~4 mm) - I will try to enlarge to see if it helps - the trick with the tape for the drain holes is really nice.

2. I'm using Graupner carbon props (got 40-42-45-48-51 mm in diameter (pitch is 1.4x diameter)) - I will try to get some Octura props, but I have to order

them from US since here in EU they sell them at some absurd prices. I was also thinking of cutting the ears a little.

3. When I put the cowl on the boat the engine seems to slow down a little - will make a bigger hole on the rear.

>> A few observations/questions for you.

1) what is the goal for this boat? - Just for fun at the local pond.

2) teflon tube - will change that

4) The fronts of you sponsons looks wide and will tend to catch air. -> will see how it handles - have to settle the hopping

5) The plumbing in your fuel tank. It is setup like in an airplane -> Why is it better to run just bent tubes ?

6) Typically we run the water pickup built into the rudder. -> probably less drag than the pickup in the rudder - we all run that way in small electric boats.

No problems with water supply either.

7) What plugs are you using? -> I'm using Novarossi C5 plugs. 25% nitro.
#1 cool that keeps things simple.

#2 Octura makes a good setof easy to run props. I've never dealt with graupners props so I have no idea. I do know you cant tweak on carbon like you can with berillium copper. You are running a 3/16" flex shaft right?

#5 If you're runing on the pond by your self it will work most of the time. If the water gets rough (wind chop, other boats) the weighted end will bounce up and down and suck an air bubble. Bending the brass tubings to the corners fixes that problem.

#6 Cool, if it works don't knock it.

#7 See this link on page 18 for a table for the Novarossi plugs. The C5 is extra cold. I'd recommend the C3 for a .21 engine. The smaller the engine, the hotter the plug you want. It will run and idle much better with a hotter plug. 25% nitro will not be a problem. This is probably not a show stopper but some engines are picky on the plug used.

<a href="http://www.skyblazersrc.com/Articles/glowplughowto.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.skyblazersrc.com/Articles/glowplughowto.pdf</a>
 
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How did you make this cowl...looking great :eek:

We also use Graupner Carbon props, they have little lift and are not as slow as many think. They are more forgiving (not as efficient on the other hand side) than metal props. In my opinion they are OK for testing and fun runs where you want a cheap prop that works right "out of the box". But if you already have hopping with them...you will have more hopping with Octura 14xx / 16xx props unless you cup them I think. I would start with a 42mm. This should be not a problem for a .21 engine. You absolutely do not want to over-prop a new boat / engine (but do not over-rev your new engine!)

What about some rear sponsons so your boat is not running on the prop only? I think you would have a more stable riding hight with them.

Maybe you need a bit more / less weight on the prop??? Play around with some lead and see how things change.

And what about some ride-pads on your wide front sponsons to reduce drag? On my own designed .21 rigger I use 45mm wide front sponsons with 25mm ridepads, more than enough for me. You can see pictures of my .21 boat here:

http://www.hydroplane.de/index.php?option=...4&Itemid=28

I also use Hydromarine flexshafts with teflon tubes...maybe you loose some % of performance with teflon, but I ran some teflon tubes for years and did not have problems with them. As always...be sure to have some space (I would say about 3-4mm) between your strut and drive-dog.

I know you gave some numbers on your pipe...but I still do not know how long it is measured from the plug, through the header to the beginning of the widest part of the pipe.
 
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-> And what about some ride-pads on your wide front sponsons to reduce drag? On my own designed .21 rigger I use 45mm wide front sponsons with 25mm ridepads, more than enough for me.

How high should the ride pads be ? (2 - 3 mm ?)

-> As always...be sure to have some space (I would say about 3-4mm) between your strut and drive-dog.

I left about 1 mm - is that to little ? If I hold the flywheel and try to spin the prop the cable shortens about 0.5 mm -

I know that I put more torque on the prop than the engine at its full power (~0.5 Nm).

-> but I still do not know how long it is measured from the plug, through the header to the beginning of the widest part of the pipe

24 cm

For the cowl I made a tool (the cowl is from BAYER VIVAK 1mm thick sheet ):

It is better to make the punch form wood so the foil does not stick to it.

cowl.jpg
 
I normally use 2mm ride-pads, works for me.

Maybe 1mm between strut and drivedog is a bit little...

Think about the following: your motor is not "hard-mounted", the whole motormount could be pushed a bit forward by the force the prop is applying through the flexshaft and the flex itself will shorten a bit. I would set the space to about 3mm to be on the save side.

I think a pipelength of 24cm = 9.5" is long for a .21 engine. I would set the pipe no longer than 8.5

We normally run our .21 pipes between 8.0 and 8.25
 
To be clear:

Here is what I measured:

ex.jpg
 
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