Need Help on old outrigger.

[dr gary turner]

I remember seeing Denny Preston run the Phantom at the SGRA race years ago. It was unique and fast. Is Denny still around. Doc

 

[KenOlvis]

Joe

Thanks for setting that bad rumor straight.I helped build .65 Phantom in the late 70s an helped on a twin .65 using your design also both were Rossi powered. It is my all time favor design an fastest rigger i ever have driven. If you bring back the Phantom ill take it.

Ken

Hi Ken, thanks for the kind words! As for setting the bad rumors straight, I think I misstated something. Concerning the Trike, now that I think about it, I believe I did build a few kits. I had told the guys that I would release it so they could help me experiment with setups for it. You Guys have to realize, it has been 40 years ago so I have slept a few times since then, LOL! As for bringing the Phantom back, I answered that question earlier. A note of interest, I do still have the only prototype of the Phantom .90. I built it but never ran it or produced kits of it. It has a Rossi .90 or .91 in it and I believe all the hardware except the rudder if I remember right. It has been stored at my oldest suns house for years so I think that is right. It would make a great 23cc gas boat. Joe

I remember the trike seen one run in Melbourne fl.It was the boats first time out an it was the guys first boat he had a project on hand.If you decide to offer a flat kit of the phantom but me down for one

New or old style as stated it would be competitive still today i always like the fins on the sponsons.

Ken

 

[JOEBISHOP]

I remember seeing Denny Preston run the Phantom at the SGRA race years ago. It was unique and fast. Is Denny still around. Doc

Hi Doc, I have not seen Denny for about 15 years now. The last I knew he still lived in Oklahoma City. Him and I parted ways when I decided to shut down BMD. When I saw him, for just a few minutes (15 years ago), at a swap meet, he talked to me about an engine I had for sale but didn't realize who he was talking to. Joe

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Joe

Thanks for setting that bad rumor straight.I helped build .65 Phantom in the late 70s an helped on a twin .65 using your design also both were Rossi powered. It is my all time favor design an fastest rigger i ever have driven. If you bring back the Phantom ill take it.

Ken

Hi Ken, thanks for the kind words! As for setting the bad rumors straight, I think I misstated something. Concerning the Trike, now that I think about it, I believe I did build a few kits. I had told the guys that I would release it so they could help me experiment with setups for it. You Guys have to realize, it has been 40 years ago so I have slept a few times since then, LOL! As for bringing the Phantom back, I answered that question earlier. A note of interest, I do still have the only prototype of the Phantom .90. I built it but never ran it or produced kits of it. It has a Rossi .90 or .91 in it and I believe all the hardware except the rudder if I remember right. It has been stored at my oldest suns house for years so I think that is right. It would make a great 23cc gas boat. Joe

I remember the trike seen one run in Melbourne fl.It was the boats first time out an it was the guys first boat he had a project on hand.If you decide to offer a flat kit of the phantom but me down for one

New or old style as stated it would be competitive still today i always like the fins on the sponsons.

Ken

Hi Ken, over the years I have redesigned the Phantom over and over in my mind. I mostly design something in my mind before I put it on paper. I think the Phantom would be competitive today as is but I have made it much better over the years (in my mind), LOL. What some guys don't realize is the fact that a good boat design (especially a hydroplane) depends on achieving 0 gravity while at speed. This means that (at speed) the boat weighs nothing. It doesn't push up nor down but neutralizes. Also in order to go fast while maintaining a straight line the boat needs to be aerodynamically stable. The reason an arrow has feathers on the trailing end (aerodynamic stability). This is displayed on the Phantom by it's fins on the inside of the sponsons. Another aspect that I have mulled over is the rudder. The rudder is necessary (on existing boat designs) to keep the boat straight and to make it turn. With that said, the rudder also causes the most parasitic drag of any part of the boat. I am working on a way to not eliminate the rudder but greatly decrease its parasitic effect. So anyway, this will be my considerations in designing the Phantom II. Joe

 

[KenOlvis]

Joe

Thanks for setting that bad rumor straight.I helped build .65 Phantom in the late 70s an helped on a twin .65 using your design also both were Rossi powered. It is my all time favor design an fastest rigger i ever have driven. If you bring back the Phantom ill take it.

Ken

Hi Ken, thanks for the kind words! As for setting the bad rumors straight, I think I misstated something. Concerning the Trike, now that I think about it, I believe I did build a few kits. I had told the guys that I would release it so they could help me experiment with setups for it. You Guys have to realize, it has been 40 years ago so I have slept a few times since then, LOL! As for bringing the Phantom back, I answered that question earlier. A note of interest, I do still have the only prototype of the Phantom .90. I built it but never ran it or produced kits of it. It has a Rossi .90 or .91 in it and I believe all the hardware except the rudder if I remember right. It has been stored at my oldest suns house for years so I think that is right. It would make a great 23cc gas boat. Joe

I remember the trike seen one run in Melbourne fl.It was the boats first time out an it was the guys first boat he had a project on hand.If you decide to offer a flat kit of the phantom but me down for one

New or old style as stated it would be competitive still today i always like the fins on the sponsons.

Ken

Hi Ken, over the years I have redesigned the Phantom over and over in my mind. I mostly design something in my mind before I put it on paper. I think the Phantom would be competitive today as is but I have made it much better over the years (in my mind), LOL. What some guys don't realize is the fact that a good boat design (especially a hydroplane) depends on achieving 0 gravity while at speed. This means that (at speed) the boat weighs nothing. It doesn't push up nor down but neutralizes. Also in order to go fast while maintaining a straight line the boat needs to be aerodynamically stable. The reason an arrow has feathers on the trailing end (aerodynamic stability). This is displayed on the Phantom by it's fins on the inside of the sponsons. Another aspect that I have mulled over is the rudder. The rudder is necessary (on existing boat designs) to keep the boat straight and to make it turn. With that said, the rudder also causes the most parasitic drag of any part of the boat. I am working on a way to not eliminate the rudder but greatly decrease its parasitic effect. So anyway, this will be my considerations in designing the Phantom II. Joe

Joe

Coolbeans sir glad your thinking about designing Phantom II keep me informed an how I can help.

Ken

 

[dr gary turner]

Good to hear Joe. Get back to designing. Doc

 

[KenOlvis]

Sent you a pm Joe Bishop

.65 PHANTOM KIT ITS ON ITS WAY TO ME TODAY!!!

COOLBEANS

KEN

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Sent you a pm Joe Bishop

.65 PHANTOM KIT ITS ON ITS WAY TO ME TODAY!!!

COOLBEANS

KEN

Hey Ken, did you find one of my old kits? If so where did you find it, just curious. Joe

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Hey Guys

Thought I would write a quick note and tell you Guys where I am as for producing a new Phantom kit. I have talked to my wife about it and her response was "you have been going nuts ever since you retired from the aerospace industry so I think it would be great for you to get back into designing". With that said, my plans is to produce a new Phantom II. I will likely design it in .45, .65, twin.65 and gas sizes, starting with the .65 size. I always thought the .65 boats were the optimum size to get the most performance.

I have spent some time looking at different boat builder web sites and I am amazed at how little the outrigger hydros have changed in the last 40 years. Well, that is about to change, LOL! Maybe some of you guys can help me, are most outriggers offered as a flat wood kit or are they mostly built (the wood construction part)? My plans are to maybe offer it both ways. The flat wood kits would be pretty reasonable in price but the built boats would be considerably more. Reason being, here in the USA we don't have any little old ladies willing to work 14 hour days for $3.00 a day!

I will do a concept drawing (3 dimensional, isometric sketch) soon and will post it to the sight to get some of your opinions, comments or suggestions. I have been out of boat racing for a long time now so will need you Guys help as to what is good hardware, engines, props, etc. I don't know how good the market (for rc race boats) is these days so this may and may not limit what I do. If it is anything like it used to be, I will have no problem producing the boats in quantity. In the old days, no matter how hard I tried, I could never keep up with the orders.

Some of you may be wondering, am I going to get back into racing rc boats again instead of flying my giant scale airplanes? The answer is NOOOOO, LOL!!!! I am 67 years old now and much prefer sitting in a cushy lawn chair and critiquing all you guy's driving skills, LOL. I will likely put out a couple of factory sponsored boats for them to be seen and to give me feed back. Anyway Guys, let me know what you think? Later! Joe

 

[OtisHelmke]

I'm a noob in boat racing but having read all of this thread I'll say put me down for a kit. Actually two of them, a .45 and single .65. It just sounds too good. I'm building a JAE .21 rigger now, when I get it figured out I suspect I will be looking for more. Thanks.

Rick H.

 

[KenOlvis]

The Original PHANTOM CE By Joe Bishop

Box date 1977

Its all there ill be puting this together this winter an getting hardware for it until the PHANTOM II arrives.

Ill post some pics soon of the kit

 

[KenOlvis]

Almost all the kit was there missing the skin for the rear sponsons.

 

[KenOlvis]

I'm a noob in boat racing but having read all of this thread I'll say put me down for a kit. Actually two of them, a .45 and single .65. It just sounds too good. I'm building a JAE .21 rigger now, when I get it figured out I suspect I will be looking for more. Thanks.

Rick H.

Sounds good burn some NITRO

Ken

 

[dr gary turner]

I would replace the white foam with Divinicyl. Much stronger, slightly heavier

 

[KenOlvis]

I would replace the white foam with Divinicyl. Much stronger, slightly heavier

It dosnt have white foam its a blue material like divinicyl or is Divinicyl im looking to use the kit as a pattern an lighten it were I can.



Thxs

Ken

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Hi Ken

A few pointers on lightning the Phantom. The Phantom due (in part) to all it's adjustments was a little heavy. One of the biggest reasons it came out heavy was the over use of epoxy by some builders. First off, use a body putty spreader to apply your epoxy. This will make it smooth and thin. Where foam is concerned, only coat the wood side. This will require that you get the wood firmly against the foam to dry. Foam can soak up loads of epoxy! When you coat interior parts with epoxy, thin it with 91% rubbing alcohol. Do not use 70% alcohol as the other 30% is water and will leave your epoxy soft, sticky and it will never completely cure. Never apply epoxy on high humidity days, it goes stupid! Also, build the rear sponsons without the interior doublers, blind mounting nuts, etc. After completing both rear sponsons, just glue them onto the hull in the position shown on the plans. They will not be adjustable but I never found the need to adjust them anyway. You can drill lightening holes in any of the doublers, mounting blocks, etc. to save weight.

Something I used to do was place all of the boat parts on a set of scales. Record the weight. After making all of my mods, I re-weighed them. This will give you an idea of how much weight you have saved. Doing this coupled with using epoxy very sparingly will give you a much lighter boat. Joe

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Hey Guys

I am going to start reporting on the progress of the Phantom II. I think it would be better if a new thread was started named Phantom & Phantom II outriggers. Maybe one of you guys, that knows this sight better than me, could help me with that? Attached is some old photos I thought you guys might enjoy. Joe

 

[Charles Perdue]

Almost all the kit was there missing the skin for the rear sponsons.

20150616_120611-1.jpg

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20150616_120403.jpg

Ken, I have a second Phantom CE boat kit. This one was unopened, it still had the original sealing tape on the box. I opened it to get the skins for the rear sponsons so I could make you duplicates. The skins for the rear sponsons parts # 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 and 44 were missing from this kit as well. Who knows why?????

If you Use the full sized drawings supplied with your kit, it should be easy to fabricate these pieces to specs.

If you cannot handle this, let me know and I will fabricate these for you.

Charles

 

[Ken Webb]

I like to make poster board patterns using the kit parts. Then glue them to door skin and make a more permanent pattern. M 2cents worth.

 

[KenOlvis]

Joe

Thanks for setting that bad rumor straight.I helped build .65 Phantom in the late 70s an helped on a twin .65 using your design also both were Rossi powered. It is my all time favor design an fastest rigger i ever have driven. If you bring back the Phantom ill take it.

Ken

Hi Ken, thanks for the kind words! As for setting the bad rumors straight, I think I misstated something. Concerning the Trike, now that I think about it, I believe I did build a few kits. I had told the guys that I would release it so they could help me experiment with setups for it. You Guys have to realize, it has been 40 years ago so I have slept a few times since then, LOL! As for bringing the Phantom back, I answered that question earlier. A note of interest, I do still have the only prototype of the Phantom .90. I built it but never ran it or produced kits of it. It has a Rossi .90 or .91 in it and I believe all the hardware except the rudder if I remember right. It has been stored at my oldest suns house for years so I think that is right. It would make a great 23cc gas boat. Joe

I remember the trike seen one run in Melbourne fl.It was the boats first time out an it was the guys first boat he had a project on hand.If you decide to offer a flat kit of the phantom but me down for one

New or old style as stated it would be competitive still today i always like the fins on the sponsons.

Ken

This brochure was in my Phantom kit