Name that Rigger

[john urbowicz]

That one is a Water Spider for sure.

I used to race them for a number of years.

First ones I had were from Louis Durand out of the New Orleans area back in the early 80's. (this is when I first started boating when I was stationed at Keesler AFB in MS.)

Most every one in that area of the country ran OPS motors from Sharmock. Then Art McMeans started to bring the Picco

motors in to the country back then.

I used to race against Louis, Roger (possum) (can't remember his last name), Shirley (Louis's wife), Art, Don Pinkert, Jim Youngblood, Scott McGuffin, Doc, Gene Taylor and a bunch of other guys.

Notice the hard shaft on the 3rd pic.

Don Wagners Avergers had the recessed transom for mounting a flex shaft strut to keep the prop the same location as the hard shaft boats.

Then Don came out with the Spiderette. It was the Avenger tub with the Spider sponsons. (made his boats more stable and quicker)

Eventually, Don just called them avengers.

The Spiders that I had were the 20 outboard, the 60-90 boat with OS 90RSR ABN (ran like a scalded dog with minor motor tweaks)

a few with Picco 65's and 80's in them,and a few 40 boats.

Sadly, Don lost all the templates/patterns when the big Hurricane hit a few years ago.

Carl is don wagner still with us?

 

[carlnoki]

That one is a Water Spider for sure.

I used to race them for a number of years.

First ones I had were from Louis Durand out of the New Orleans area back in the early 80's. (this is when I first started boating when I was stationed at Keesler AFB in MS.)

Most every one in that area of the country ran OPS motors from Sharmock. Then Art McMeans started to bring the Picco

motors in to the country back then.

I used to race against Louis, Roger (possum) (can't remember his last name), Shirley (Louis's wife), Art, Don Pinkert, Jim Youngblood, Scott McGuffin, Doc, Gene Taylor and a bunch of other guys.

Notice the hard shaft on the 3rd pic.

Don Wagners Avergers had the recessed transom for mounting a flex shaft strut to keep the prop the same location as the hard shaft boats.

Then Don came out with the Spiderette. It was the Avenger tub with the Spider sponsons. (made his boats more stable and quicker)

Eventually, Don just called them avengers.

The Spiders that I had were the 20 outboard, the 60-90 boat with OS 90RSR ABN (ran like a scalded dog with minor motor tweaks)

a few with Picco 65's and 80's in them,and a few 40 boats.

Sadly, Don lost all the templates/patterns when the big Hurricane hit a few years ago.

Carl is don wagner still with us?

Both he and Jean are still going strong. They are just in a different part of teh state these days is all.

 

[SayMikey]

Back in the day Steve Green out of St. Louis splashed a lot of boats. He made variations of a lot of different boats

 

[JS_Racing]

It looks like it might be one of Mike Hallam's boats he built back in the late 90's...

Late 90’s with a hard shaft???

Sorry - correction - late 80's

 

[GraysonTaylor]

Looks a lot like my Dumas Quicky 40. The uneven spacing on the sponsons looks the same too. The cowl would be custom.

Never mind, the nose is narrower and no bate box....

 

[Mark Daniels Jr]

It was your choice to recess the transom or not. The nose is way to pointy to be a Coyote. What size of avenger are you looking for? I have a few that could use some TLC from 90 on down to 21

Brad

Did you ever do anything with those avenger hulls?

 

[Vince Fantauzzi]

I have one exactly the same (cept cowl), with an old Picco 90...still runs like a beast. I've been told it is either a roadrunner or coyote...I went with road runner since it was yellow lol.

Vince

 

[MarkDanielsSr]

Just saw this brought to the top, Louis Durand built the Water Spiders for over a decade, solid shaft boats, tub nose length same length as the front of front sponsons, Coyote had protruding pointy front sponsons. Both boats were "low slung" when running, unlike the Crapshooters of the day that sat farther off the water when running. The Water Spider was born of a boat called the Climax from the east coast. The design was purchased by Louis from the Beard brothers, much work and a few mods later he released the Water Spider in kit form with excellent instructions. I was privileged to be around and learning in the mid 1970s as this hull was developed. The Water Spider was made with solid shafts and solid mounts. Don Wagner started developing and then producing the Avenger line of hydros, flush transom, wood/glass cowls, first solid then flex shafts, first solid mounts then rubber mounted engines in the very late 1970s. One of his first Avenger hulls was named "Incubus" with a very dark paint job and was campaigned as the club (SGRA) pond moved across the street to the KOA Campground from its home at Millers Pond in Hammond, (yes, where the infamous around the island race took place, ask Johnny Ackerman) Don moved to primarily yellow hulls and his right hand at the time, Joe D. ran red with black trim hulls. Don lent me a beautiful 7.5 outboard Avenger rigger that was used in some advertising of his to run on one of our trips to Houston for their spring race. The boat held its own with the 45 riggers but I was not that great a driver back then. He gave me the hull upon our return to New Orleans and I wish I still had it. Eventually Don bought Water Spider from Louis and production was named Avenger/Spider, hulls had the A/S stamp inside. The melding of the hulls produced the Avenger/Spider line of hydros, this also was the start of the recessed transom. Always working on improvements, Don would make mods for testing, some of us got these hulls from him, I have a 45 size and was called it the A/S Cobra. His final design 20 rigger ended up with a top line of the side drop at the engine mount with a flat deck over the fuel tank and was also known as the A/S Cobra 20. I have 7 of these hulls. I have a set of the templates from Water Spider and also Avenger, the boats I now cut out for us and a few friends are modified A/S design, narrower tub, wider footprint, much smaller rears. Got the itch and cut out a few .12 sized boats a few weeks ago just for us and some friends. They are in various stages of construction on the framing bench now. If ever sold, (doubtful) they will carry the Oval Master name as we still make that line of fiberglass hulls as purchased from Don in 1999. Just a short bit of history from this aging mind.

 

[Jeff Lutz]

I have one exactly the same (cept cowl), with an old Picco 90...still runs like a beast. I've been told it is either a roadrunner or coyote...I went with road runner since it was yellow lol.

Vince

Your boat is 100% a Coyote. The first Roadrunner wasn’t far off the Coyote, but it never had solid mounts let alone bolt on radio box lids. Jeff Lutz

 

[dr gary turner]

Good history. I remember Ben and Bud Beard, they were Father Son team.
Ben built their motors from a block of aluminum and used some parts of others motors.
They were vary innovative. They were at a race in Birmingham at the Pawnee Reservoir. I was looking at Bud’s boat and noticed that the turn fin was bent in at the bottom like a J. I told Ben he better check the fin it looked he hit something and bent his fine. He just smiled.

I think they were the first to run a bent turn fin.
I think I still have a drawing of the climax boat.

I first met the Beards at a race in Memphis. I think when they quit running boats, Bud started to run Formula Fords

 

[John Beardslee]

Good history. I remember Ben and Bud Beard, they were Father Son team.
Ben built their motors from a block of aluminum and used some parts of others motors.
They were vary innovative. They were at a race in Birmingham at the Pawnee Reservoir. I was looking at Bud’s boat and noticed that the turn fin was bent in at the bottom like a J. I told Ben he better check the fin it looked he hit something and bent his fine. He just smiled.

I think they were the first to run a bent turn fin.
I think I still have a drawing of the climax boat.

I first met the Beards at a race in Memphis. I think when they quit running boats, Bud started to run Formula Fords

The Beard’s were great folks! They were great to work on props with. We had at least one enroute every week. They made the Mini Gold Cup race a few times. Great memories! Thanks Doc.
John

 

[dr gary turner]

Carl, yes a lot of great racing at the SGRA. The home of the MAN TROPHIES

 

[Zimmerman]

The original hull was called a Climax and was designed by Ed Keedy and I still have parts from one of his 60 hulls. His van was broken into at one of the Indy Unlimited races in the 70's. All of his boating stuff was stolen (never recovered). He was pretty upset, quit the hobby and sold the Climax design to Louis. I don't think Beards were involved. Also about that time was when Tim Reese, Charlie Sweet and Denny Worden started Crapshooter boats. They ran an add in R/C Modeler magazine - "If you construct this boat to our specifications we garentee it will go 45 MPH"!!!

 

[MarkDanielsSr]

Yes Doc, I do not know why I remembered them as brothers. Raced with them here at the Hydro Invitational, also at Memphis where we stayed at Dave Clarks house, and at the Pawnee Reservoir for the Birmingham race. After Louis bought the Climax from them, they returned to the New Orleans race with a pair of hydros with square angled holes on the front sponsons that worked much like the wings we had started to add to front sponson booms to help hold the nose down as the motors were increasing performance. I would have loved to see their thought process with what we all know about props now and the advances in hull and motor technology. Sure was a lot of fun times and great memories. Decades later, just before the SGRA left the Slidell pond, I spent all day one Saturday with Louis running a new 20 rigger he had designed. The day was spent working and trying turn fins using his experience, things we both learned from Glen Cupit, and my enthusiasm. One statement from him will stay with me for the rest of my days, talking about past races, Indy and the "Southern Circuit", talk changed to a twin 67 I had on my bench at home. He stopped, looked at me and asked "Why do you think I am out here with a 20 boat?" I piped up because it was easier to work up than a big boat. He gave a small grin and stated he would never admit it but the bigger boats had become so fast and so technical that they were sheer terror to race, from the launch to the finish. He felt the difference. We then talked about sport and scale boats. I learned a lot that day and think that was the last time I ran boats with Louis.

 

[Rc painter]

possibly early crapshooter

 

[ChrisCapaldi]

Hi Randy, Was the boat painted red prior to it's current paint job? I had a boat that looked identical to that one...it was an original Keedy boat. It was back in the late 80's / early 90's when I owned it. How the cowl is held down in front is a clue. There was a gap between the bulkhead and nose that the front of the cowl slid into. Kind of different.
Chris

 

[dr gary turner]

Yes Doc, I do not know why I remembered them as brothers. Raced with them here at the Hydro Invitational, also at Memphis where we stayed at Dave Clarks house, and at the Pawnee Reservoir for the Birmingham race. After Louis bought the Climax from them, they returned to the New Orleans race with a pair of hydros with square angled holes on the front sponsons that worked much like the wings we had started to add to front sponson booms to help hold the nose down as the motors were increasing performance. I would have loved to see their thought process with what we all know about props now and the advances in hull and motor technology. Sure was a lot of fun times and great memories. Decades later, just before the SGRA left the Slidell pond, I spent all day one Saturday with Louis running a new 20 rigger he had designed. The day was spent working and trying turn fins using his experience, things we both learned from Glen Cupit, and my enthusiasm. One statement from him will stay with me for the rest of my days, talking about past races, Indy and the "Southern Circuit", talk changed to a twin 67 I had on my bench at home. He stopped, looked at me and asked "Why do you think I am out here with a 20 boat?" I piped up because it was easier to work up than a big boat. He gave a small grin and stated he would never admit it but the bigger boats had become so fast and so technical that they were sheer terror to race, from the launch to the finish. He felt the difference. We then talked about sport and scale boats. I learned a lot that day and think that was the last time I ran boats with Louis.

Is Louis Durand still alive? What about Roger Moran?

 

[mercguy]

Just saw this brought to the top, Louis Durand built the Water Spiders for over a decade, solid shaft boats, tub nose length same length as the front of front sponsons, Coyote had protruding pointy front sponsons. Both boats were "low slung" when running, unlike the Crapshooters of the day that sat farther off the water when running. The Water Spider was born of a boat called the Climax from the east coast. The design was purchased by Louis from the Beard brothers, much work and a few mods later he released the Water Spider in kit form with excellent instructions. I was privileged to be around and learning in the mid 1970s as this hull was developed. The Water Spider was made with solid shafts and solid mounts. Don Wagner started developing and then producing the Avenger line of hydros, flush transom, wood/glass cowls, first solid then flex shafts, first solid mounts then rubber mounted engines in the very late 1970s. One of his first Avenger hulls was named "Incubus" with a very dark paint job and was campaigned as the club (SGRA) pond moved across the street to the KOA Campground from its home at Millers Pond in Hammond, (yes, where the infamous around the island race took place, ask Johnny Ackerman) Don moved to primarily yellow hulls and his right hand at the time, Joe D. ran red with black trim hulls. Don lent me a beautiful 7.5 outboard Avenger rigger that was used in some advertising of his to run on one of our trips to Houston for their spring race. The boat held its own with the 45 riggers but I was not that great a driver back then. He gave me the hull upon our return to New Orleans and I wish I still had it. Eventually Don bought Water Spider from Louis and production was named Avenger/Spider, hulls had the A/S stamp inside. The melding of the hulls produced the Avenger/Spider line of hydros, this also was the start of the recessed transom. Always working on improvements, Don would make mods for testing, some of us got these hulls from him, I have a 45 size and was called it the A/S Cobra. His final design 20 rigger ended up with a top line of the side drop at the engine mount with a flat deck over the fuel tank and was also known as the A/S Cobra 20. I have 7 of these hulls. I have a set of the templates from Water Spider and also Avenger, the boats I now cut out for us and a few friends are modified A/S design, narrower tub, wider footprint, much smaller rears. Got the itch and cut out a few .12 sized boats a few weeks ago just for us and some friends. They are in various stages of construction on the framing bench now. If ever sold, (doubtful) they will carry the Oval Master name as we still make that line of fiberglass hulls as purchased from Don in 1999. Just a short bit of history from this aging mind.

Mark
That is a great update on the riggers built back then. I built a 67 and 90 A/S and I think Don called them Cobras too with the recessed transom. They both were built with solid wood sponsons that came from Don. I forget the name of the wood (not balsa) but they are as light as WOF sponsons. I have sold the 67 but still have the 90 with a VAC91 and it is a great boat especially in rough water.
Bill Hoch

 

[MarkDanielsSr]

Is Louis Durand still alive? What about Roger Moran?

Hey Doc, My best friend, Dave Porter who you may remember from the days with Bob and racing saw Louis last year, I am told he was ok but tires very easily and Loretta takes very good care of him including limiting his exposure to anyone. I attended a gun show with Roger some years ago and he was well, fully retired, we discussed the two 65 motors he installed the 90 piston sleeves in that were sent to Italy to push OPS into the 80 market. Bob gave them to me way back in the Shamrock days. I told him I would give them to him if he gave me the drawings and parts from all those years of trying to gear three 40 motors together. He laughed and we commiserated about the constant rod failure in the third motor. I ran the pickup boat for days and days working on that rig. He knew I had chased down the original 60 geared motor setups from John and he gave me a lead on one more out there. We laughed a lot, made plans to get together for lunch, and promptly lost touch. He was well but I do not know his status now. He had moved to Madisonville and I found he had some relatives over here in Mississippi but life got in the way. Two great guys and fierce competitors as well as good teachers.

 

[dr gary turner]

Thanks for the follow up