Mutt II leagality

[Mark Anderson]

Mike has told me that simply making the bottom edge of the air trap 1/8 will not make it ok. He has said that the entire air trap would have to be cut off and replaced with something 1/8 thick. He has also indicated that my boat is the only one that has been protested so it is the only one that is being looked at.

Basic drafting class says that the measurement shown in the drawing is for the bottom edge and none is given for the rest.

Piperchuck If you read in my short history I never intended to get into the boat business. When we started running in the 80's at record trials people started bugging me so I built some boats. I have never advertised the boats, let alone advertised that they were legal for any sanctioning body. I have been selling them for several years and then this pops up.

It seems that most people don't agree with Mike's interpretation of the drawing, but he holds the final say.

 

[Bill Gibson]

Gee I sure didn't see anyone from NAMBA jumping up & saying they should re-think their rule when it came to Phil's boat not being legal. <_<

Well said don.....guess im gonna put my ss45 on the shelf and pull out my old dumas U-76 atlas van lines... at the rate that things are going it might be the only legal sport 40 at the races!!! I dont mind losing paint at a race, cause thats racin... but ill be damned if im gonna cut into a perfectly good paint job for something like this....even if it is a simple fix..Its a shame...cause I really enjoy runnin my ss45.........remember when model boat racin was a simple,fun hobby?

 

[Don Ferrette]

Basic drafting class says that the measurement shown in the drawing is for the bottom edge and none is given for the rest.

This is exactly what I have been trying to point out to my fellow board members. If the intent was to measure at the point the air dam leaves the hull bottom there is a different way that it is supposed to be drawn. As it is currently drawn it is a point to point measurement. :unsure:

 

[SayMikey]

Basic drafting class says that the measurement shown in the drawing is for the bottom edge and none is given for the rest.

This is exactly what I have been trying to point out to my fellow board members. If the intent was to measure at the point the air dam leaves the hull bottom there is a different way that it is supposed to be drawn. As it is currently drawn it is a point to point measurement. :unsure:

Well my friend then why does it just not say 1/8 at the tip????????? Some years ago Ken Hildreth Helped with the ss45 and was told he could not be any wider than 1/8 thats why the ss45 is how it is.

 

[P THOMAS]

Basic drafting class says that the measurement shown in the drawing is for the bottom edge and none is given for the rest.

This is exactly what I have been trying to point out to my fellow board members. If the intent was to measure at the point the air dam leaves the hull bottom there is a different way that it is supposed to be drawn. As it is currently drawn it is a point to point measurement. :unsure:

Well my friend then why does it just not say 1/8 at the tip????????? Some years ago Ken Hildreth Helped with the ss45 and was told he could not be any wider than 1/8 thats why the ss45 is how it is.

What help with what?

Mike doesnt this help explain where the measurement is done?

look at section K Technical standards.

In hull classifications part 2.a 3-Point Suspension hull you will find the following statement "Air trap devices shall be a maximum of .125" across the bottom surface for engine class B or larger with no restriction on depth..."

This seems to be saying that the 1/8" in the (extremely vague) drawing was the bottom of the air trap, not the entire thing.

PHIL T

 

[piper_chuck]

Chuck, I know that at least one hull was never intended for production; it was built, run, won, set records and people kept bugging the builder to make and sell them. I truly don’t think there are that many guys that do this for more than just a hobby and they probably build a boat for themselves to race in their sanctioning body. No there is no process to have a hull blessed by a committee in NAMBA. Heck it’s hard enough to get people to help clean up the rules let alone participate in some power wielding committee. One huge problem is rules that are open to interpretation that is why I have always fought any rule proposal that was not a hard fact based rule. One that you can take a ruler and any one can see if it passes or not. This is not an easy thing to do. We also have the old problem of some of the old timers not wanting the two sanctioning bodies to work together to clean things up. I guess the old guard thinks it’s in the best interest of model boating to have ambiguities in the rules so they can drum them up at the last minute to keep someone faster than them off the water. It will take some of the newer members getting involved and take back the organizations from the bullies that try to use the rule book to keep people off the water rather than use the book to keep everyone on the water and playing by the same rules. It’s time to step up and get involved so the class chairs can get this taken care of we only can do what the majority of members (or the ones that speak up) want.

It sure would be nice to see some of these problems get fixed.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Phil

I have now asked Mike twice if that was pertinent to the situation and he has chosen not to answer me.

If it is pertinant my suggestion to anyone who owns one of my boats would be this. Glue a piece of 1/16 square spruce to the center of the bottom of the air traps. Fill the edges and sand the filler to fair the spruce strip in. This would bring the edge down to 1/16 and eliminate any question. It would be a very quick easy fix that would not change the boat ride to any real extent. It would if anything nail the boat down a little better.

 

[Jeff]

The fact that these rules have been in place since 1989 and they are not enforced egually on all hulls just points out the lack of responsibilty rule makers and board people have. It s just plain unamerican to expect your fellow boater to protest an ilegal hull. Why make them the bad guy?

I hope you guy's piss eveyrone off and the CD disqualifies 50% of the hulls at the nats.

Why have rules?

Jeff

 

[Brian Blazer]

I have studied the sport rules for a long time now. It was always my interpretation that the air trap should be vertical on both sides, 1/8" thick. After reading the arguments and keeping an open mind to the rules of IMPBA, there is nothing that says the walls on the air trap must be vertical. Sport40 is a fun class the way it is. We don't need to go upsetting fellow boaters by making their boats illegal based on an unclear rule.

Brian

 

[Joe_Knesek]

Basic drafting class says that the measurement shown in the drawing is for the bottom edge and none is given for the rest.

This is exactly what I have been trying to point out to my fellow board members. If the intent was to measure at the point the air dam leaves the hull bottom there is a different way that it is supposed to be drawn. As it is currently drawn it is a point to point measurement. :unsure:

Well my friend then why does it just not say 1/8 at the tip????????? Some years ago Ken Hildreth Helped with the ss45 and was told he could not be any wider than 1/8 thats why the ss45 is how it is.

Mike I'm not sure how much clearer it needs to be. After reading the rule "Air trap devices shall be a maximum of .125" across the bottom surface for engine class B or larger with no restriction on depth..." I would lay a ruler across the bottom of the air trap. As long as the bottom is less than .125 it's legal. Otherwise the rule would say something like "No part of the air dam shall exceed .125." and would have no need to reference the air dam's bottom.

After writing technical requirements for the last 10 years I've found that visual drawings do not add value unless they are an exact representation of what you expect. A hand drawn image is hardly that.

 

[rctinman]

Gee I sure didn't see anyone from NAMBA jumping up & saying they should re-think their rule when it came to Phil's boat not being legal. <_<

Problem is Don, with Mike's interpitation, and his ruling, Phil's hull is not legal in IMPBA either!!!

Steve

 

[curt powell]

Gee I sure didn't see anyone from NAMBA jumping up & saying they should re-think their rule when it came to Phil's boat not being legal. <_<

Problem is Don, with Mike's interpitation, and his ruling, Phil's hull is not legal in IMPBA either!!!

Steve

 

[curt powell]

Gee I sure didn't see anyone from NAMBA jumping up & saying they should re-think their rule when it came to Phil's boat not being legal. <_<

Problem is Don, with Mike's interpitation, and his ruling, Phil's hull is not legal in IMPBA either!!!

Steve

 

[Rokieboater]

Let me know if I have this correctly, I can race my SS45 In IMPBA and my MUTT in NAMBA. I just don't want to bring the wrong gun oops I mean boat to the wrong fight oops I mean race. Then as soon as someone protset my SS45 at an IMPBA event I can't race that boat anywhere and my MUTT becomes a one organization race boat.

Nice, way to go. Now if you guys can find something wrong with my SGX like too many riding surfaces or my Seaducers with too much hook in the bottom.... or somethng like that....then I will just come and be a spectator. Wait, I am sure I left myself open for some form of criticism and to think I only want to race.

Okay enough of that. Can I just narrow the trap at the bottom of the trap to 1/16 or something less than 1/8 on both hulls and be legal? Is there anybody who can answer that or do I need to have the entire trap less than 1/8?

Robert

 

[Mark Anderson]

I got an e-mail from Mike, and he is now saying that If we add something an 1/8 wide and fair it into the edge of the airtrap it will be ok. If any one has any questions on how to do it contact me via e-mail. Do not extend the air trap any more than you have to.

 

[Duck899]

I got an e-mail from Mike, and he is now saying that If we add something an 1/8 wide and fair it into the edge of the airtrap it will be ok. If any one has any questions on how to do it contact me via e-mail. Do not extend the air trap any more than you have to.

Thanks Mark.....

 

[Ken Hildreth]

Man,

Boaters gone wild!! I can see it now. lol. This thread has not particularly went the way I would like to see it go. Why dont we A. Propose a one season (till dec 31st, for those who are picky) exemption to the Mutt II so that boaters, some that I know and love to race, can do just that, Race. Then, get the Technical director to put together a team of 3 people or more, I really dont care, as long as it is a group so no one can accuse one person of doing anything wrong. To rewrite the transom rule so that is clear and so that the Mutt II is legal as is. Is this so Hard?? Here, I will try to help. The Air Trap on a sport 40 may not be more than 1/4" wide and 1/4" deep on the back 4"inches of the hull. The trap must end even with the transom. NO AIR TRAP TO EXTEND BEYOND THE TRANSOM. AIR TRAP MUST BE FLAT AND NOT SHAPED AS A REAR SPONSON. oh well, its a start. Ken

 

[Chris Thomas]

The 0.125" rule is to make sure the hull does not have another riding surface (i.e. rigger).......in the corners or straighaway. It should be measured at the bottom of the non trip. No shoes or tipletts either. I would have to agree with Don P. as far as having the boat meet the rules, not the other way around.

I think this is going to bring in the NASCAR vs. toyota war soon. Does it mean driven in North America or made in or I don't know I lose track.....

 

[Ken Hildreth]

I am well aware of what the rule is intended to prevent. I have raced this class for years, and seeing where your from, I probably have raced with you. You probably raced with Mike Hallam who owned one of these hulls for a while. Do you think he had some edge that seemed riggerlike? I just dont believe Mark did this for a riding suface advantage, and I would like to see the people that own them be able to race. If I could think of an easy fix for the problem, I would say it. I do not. so, I am just trying to make the solution easier. Ken

 

[sport hydro]

I have been trying to follow this post. I am a newbie to the hobby and have read the rules. I run an AC Boats ProII hull and checked it after reading this. I am somewhat confused about the air trap. The rule shows that the trap cannot be more than 1/8" wide. My hull is 3/16" to 1/4" wide, however, the air trap stops about 4" from the rear transom. Does this make it legal? If not, then all AC Boat hulls are in the same situation as the Mutt II's.