Miss Vegas

[RodneyPierce]

View attachment 5513"Heartland Vegas Invitational"

Stock Vegas (aqua.18)

Modified Vegas\pro boat (any .18 and pipe)

Unlimited Vegas\pro boat (If you can stuff it in it its legal)

Stock pro boat .15

RTR Electrics

All boats to be origionally Built as a RTR

These are just some of the classes we have in mind.

I think it will be a great event and all the people I have seen talk about how much fun they have had running these boats , many of which these have been the first remote control boat they have run, the thrill of racing is a adrenaline rush that you have to experince, not to mention the friendships you make and the people you meet from all over. The enthusiasm I see is incredible.

Am looking for any suggestions of classes and am trying to get a firm date, all I can say is targeting spring of 2007.

I wanted to promote the race early because I think a lot of participants would be a first time racer.

Piper, the red slippers are optional, but if you are most comfortable driving your boat in them we understand....HA LOL sorry I could not resist

Now starts the Kansas\Wizard of Oz jokes

Kelly Miller

Sam Miller Racing

Dorthy is my neighbor and toto craps in my yard

Me and Kelly have been talking and this whole idea of a RTR race in Kansas came from something we noticed. In most cases I have seen, without putting blame or making someone feel affended...no RTR class events are honored at IMPBA events that I have seen. Most cases not even listed as a event. Here in Wichita we had to make it happen, but you have to start somewhere. What I do know is the hobby has changed. Back in the day you would work, come home speak to your wife, then head to the basement or garage to build your dream. Well times have changed and the people of the hobby today dont have the time to do this. In most cases people buy boats already built and modify them to there own stlye. This is not saying people dont build there own boats and still play, but what I see is alot of custom built boats from others work, just modified by the buyer to their style.

I work in the RTR industry, and I took a pole on why my customers dont get out there and race their RTR's.

Here are the answers I got.

1. Where?

2. My club does not honor it at there events, because all the guys are bigger boats and gas.

3. I drove to Texas to attend a IMPBA event...after I called to see RTR was going to be held and was told yes, but when I got there it was all gas.

4. My gas Proboat RTR is not aloud to race.

These are just afew examples of what was said in mails.

In my time in this hobby this is what I have seen. You have your record setters, super builders, props gods, engine builders, and national champions. Well beleive it our not boys...the new people of this hobby look up to you, but in the beggining they cant afford your work, so they build to it. I really wish the older guys in this hobby would open there eyes to the new guys in this hobby. Truth be known you started the way you did, "building your own stuff" because there wasnt RTR. You had to. With doing this comes great respect for ya. Heck half of the newbees could never do this, but they learn from you. Not to mention they dont have time. Mr. Finley of Finleys hobbies has been in the hobby 50 years plus some. I went into his basement and this is what I saw. 10 boats unfinished. I asked him why they were not done. He said no time anymore. The Squire Shop boat has been on the bench ten years...amazing!!!

My point is the old R/C boat hobby is dieing. There is a new breed out there and the older guys are hero's now. Here are afew rumours I have heard, and I wish to set them to rest.

1. RTR is not honored at IMPBA events because there is not enuff time. To many other events.

At our event it went smooth as pie. In most cases the other event guys had to be called to the pit to race, but with the RTR guys...they would be ready and pumped. You could truly feel the pump of what racing is all about.

2. The reason why RTR is not honored is because there is never a turn out to have it.

Well first club owners and presidents...make it a point to honor it first. Every guy with a boat wants to race. If you put it on your website, flyers, and post, they will come. Example Kelly mentioning a RTR only race next year.

3. The older guys in my club dont honor the RTR's and look at them as toys not boats.

To be honest I have seen this myself, but in most cases these guys are normal humans, they just have to warm up to you. In my personal experience I was told I dont have rank and should not be in the hobby. My answer to this person was...WHERE DID YOU START...???

But because I am surrounded by old timers, I want to stand up for them. They started in the hobby when there wasnt one. They are hands down the creators of what is today. When they were in the hobby as a boy, they had to make there strut, there boat and everything. You couldnt order speed from the web. In short rank was earned. I can see where a gas RTR comes to the pond from china and beats a custom built boat. I can see where there would be hostility in peace over this. RTR with mods are just as fast as my man hour boat. The old timer he thinks this is like cheating, lets say. There is No sport in buying a ready to go boat and receiving anything for it.

We must all start somewhere is my true point of this post. I am asking out loud for the support of the older fellows who are record setters and gods of the hobby. Do us all a big favor. Buy a RTR and get out there and there and set those same records with it. Our hobby is dieing, its time for change. Here is what I do know. Jerry Dunlap came to our event and kicked some real ass. Placed first!!! What is the point here? I think he will admit it was just as much fun. Not to mention the person that was on his butt the hole time, was a 10 year old boy...with a RTR. Now thats racing and how it should be.

Just A Final Note:

My RTR Wish List

1. Mr. Cooper of Cooper Pipes...make a pipe for us small boys 15/18

2. Phil Thomas...make a RTR Hydro...please

3. Mike Z....race a RTR Vegas as you do that Futaba boat

4. Octura...get new prop molds...lol and get website too.

5. Kelly Miller...make the Heartland shoot out!!! Be sure to include Unlimited RTR

6. Jerry D. return to Ks. next year.

7. Proboat, Aquacraft...make some RTR events...you are the only RTR builders...support your industry.

8. IMPBA...make you club presidents and members honor RTR class

9 Newbee's ....GET INVOLVED!!!

10. That guy with the Peco engines molds and machining....start using them please.

James, I will give you a "good post" for that one. I highly doubt Phill Thomas will be building a rtr boat anytime soon, or at all for that matter, but I do think that some people shoudl give them a break, and perhaps just try out the new vegas. It isnt as chinsey as some others, and to my eyes, it has some pretty good performance straight from the box, of course with the work you need to do to a fiber glass boat (sharpen and blue print the bottom) I dont care whos boat you get that is fiberglass, this needs to be done, I dont think it is possible to mold each and every corner perfect and sharp, I just dont think it can be done. But anyhow, give them a shot guys, hell I bought one because I seen some of the performance out of them, and as many of you know im a BIG TUNNEL guy, and tunnels are my passion, but figured hell, for the price of a motor I could have me a RTR boat that could mean BIG FUN. And im not talking for the price of a high dollar nova conversion, or heavy mod, im talking for less then the price of a stock OS here guys. Give them a shot if you havnt already, might just surprise a few people too

 

[Frosty]

James

Are you still heading to Evansville this weekend with your Vegas?

 

[P THOMAS]

Hey You are correct I wont be creating any RTR :lol: I would probally go buy one as soon as they start holding races for them. I heard there were several people call the evansville club about runnig their RTR boats this year. It would be good to see a RTR class offered. It is the kind of boat that club likes, They have a good turn out of Sport20 Hydro now. There could be a class of RTR soon We can just promote the idea, It is up to the clubs to do it and not wait on anything official.

PHIL

 

[Don Ferrette]

A fellow racer bought a Miss Vegas out at open water this past weekend & we took turns driving it, what a fun little boat! We were out there with gas boats & running across their wakes didn't phase it! I'm getting one as a no stress fun boat & a few of us talked about an IROC style of racing with no mods other than the optional prop & turn fin hop up. B)

 

[bzubee]

Here are the original rules John and I worked on for IMPBA they have been modified to include fiberglass hulls now available. We have also had suggestions on increasing the engines sizes but do not have wording to cover the wide range of engines available now by all of the different manufactures. We have left that up to the local clubs. IMPBA has no method to force clubs to offer the RTR classes or any other type of classes. That is strictly up to the host club and their business sense. Hosting a race is a business. It is in the club's best interest to offer classes that show popularity in their local area. Clubs that do not usually do not last very long. The Huntsville club offered that RTR class a few years ago but did not have any contestants, the class was dropped.

Production ABS

Technical Specifications

HULL Boat hull must be of vacuum formed ABS plastic. Custom hulls, wood or fiberglass hulls are not allowed. All hulls must have positive buoyancy characteristics when operated, and display colorful decals to enhance the spirit of this class. Hull lengths will be between 20 and 43 inches. Hulls may be separated by class types if sufficient boats are entered.

Propulsion and Control Systems

Single glow engines with a maximum displacement of 0.165 cubic inches may be utilized. Starting method can be recoil or on board electric. External electric, belt start will not be allowed. Tuned pipes will not be allowed. All boats will exhibit positive engine control with full stop capability to insure safe retrieval. Any aftermarket propellers may be used and boats will receive propulsion by in the water propellers.

Racing Rules

Racing rules will, in general, conform to IMPBA contest and racing rules, with the following exceptions:

1. LeMans start will be utilized, boats can be test started in the pit area before the official start of the race to insure they will restart on command.

2. All boats will run four laps.

3. No records will be established for this "Production ABS" class. Any variations of the above information should be clearly stipulated on the circular distributed by the host club.

 

[anthony_marquart]

How about just a "run what you brung under .21 class". That would encompass every version of RTR or small home built boat.

 

[piper_chuck]

A fellow racer bought a Miss Vegas out at open water this past weekend & we took turns driving it, what a fun little boat! We were out there with gas boats & running across their wakes didn't phase it! I'm getting one as a no stress fun boat & a few of us talked about an IROC style of racing with no mods other than the optional prop & turn fin hop up. B)

Don, good to hear you had fun with it. I think this is an important aspect of RTR. Keep the competition level, and the co$t down, by minimizing the allowable changes. If this isn't done, what's the difference between something like the Vegas and a sport 20? If there are parts that clearly need to be replaced for reliability or to correct serious handling problems, change them. However, with no limits, the cost to compete in the RTR class quickly escalates to the point where it's just as expensive as other classes.

How about just a "run what you brung under .21 class". That would encompass every version of RTR or small home built boat.

We've got something like that going on at our club. Four people have .15-.18 monos. The boats cost somewhere in the $200-300 range to put together. They've given the ok for a couple more of us who have Vegas hydros to join their heats.

 

[007clint]

When you fly to a distant race, how do you pack the Miss Vegas? I was thinking about making a case with fitted foam using a hard gun, band instrument, or golf case. Has anyone done this?

What do you do about fuel and a running partner when you come to a distant race?

I would REALLY look forward to coming to a Kansas race for RTR's (I have a couple of Miss Vegas and Miss Llumars).

 

[Frosty]

James

Wanted to race in Evansville but not going to for 2 reasons

1.No RTR class and my stock Vegas engine would not be competitive. Anyway I had something go through my engine and I have gouging on my piston and she is down on power. I am going to run the rest of the season this way if she hold on. Then we'll talk motors.

2. My Daughters first birthday is the 24th and I would rather face a firing squad than miss this.

 

[piper_chuck]

James

Wanted to race in Evansville but not going to for 2 reasons

1.No RTR class and my stock Vegas engine would not be competitive. Anyway I had something go through my engine and I have gouging on my piston and she is down on power. I am going to run the rest of the season this way if she hold on. Then we'll talk motors...

Hold off on the motor decision. There's a thread in the general forum discussing rejuvinating the RTR class. So far, there's a strong message that the engines should stay stock. That would mean you would want to stick with the original engine rather than upgrading. Meanwhile, a replacement piston/sleeve is only $34 at Tower: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti00...=LXMMR4&P=Z

 

[Don Ferrette]

Well I got my Vegas delivered yesterday & so far I can say this-

1- the paint job is average at best, lots of orange peel & the silver on the turbine tube was already flaking off right out of the box. Granted I'm very picky & it is a $300 RTR boat so maybe I'm expecting too much. No matter as the boat is getting a rather different paint scheme, the unlimited I will duplicate aleady has been chosen. And no it's not the Smokin' Joe's either.

2- the solid motor mounting needs to be modified! This also is probably a large portion of the noise this boat generates, which ain't all that much. The way it comes from the factory had solid plates screwed directly to wood blocks 'glassed to the hull bottom & the motor angle is a bit off with the stuffing tube. The up side is it appears that a simple drilling out of the motor mount plates, adding rubber grommets with shouldered head screws & this will give both vibration insulation & correct the shaft/motor angle, an easy fix & should be incorporated into the boat from the factory in future production runs. Once I complete this I plan to forward the info to the appropriate parties @ Aquacraft.

3- The rudder will get modified to be a breakaway, also not a big deal. Should only require drilling 2 new holes & rounding off the rudder top side so it can kick up. I will determine exactly how when I disassemble the boat for painting & drill the holes at that time. This is something that should also be incorporated into later models if it proves to be an easy mod. B)

 

[1outlaw]

I got this off of RCU but thought i would add it here since it appears to be a great upgrade for the Vegas..The flex coupler on the Vegas isnt very good...A good upgrade is ocfh5mm13. You have to reshim the motor but no biggy.

I know Twisted Liquid has a coupler upgrade but i didnt want to deal with shims. As much as i want to help support James and Twisted i chose the octura coupler...Works great...

 

[1outlaw]

Got another Vegas finally delivered to me yesterday....I got it from T.L. and also purchased there turn fin..Im not sure if its adjusted properly or its just the nature of there fin, but it seems in the straightaways if you put any type of left in put into it it pulls the boat down...The other Vegas we have has the Grim racer fin on it and it doesnt do that and reacts well on left turns...T.L. turn fin the boat wont make a left turn unless you turn far and then the boat jumps out of the water...Grim's fin doesnt do that when making evasive maneuvers...[X(][X(]

Anybody run the T.L. fin and can look and tell me if its adjusted right???...The orange and white boat runs the T.L fin and the blue and white runs the Grim's fin....

Also the orange and white one (new) has a annoying spray from the back and its hitting the top of the turbine, i sure its taking in water...The blue and white one doesnt have that spray and run the same hardware just different props????

Double decker boat stand for traveling that seperates when you have arrived....[ ]

 

[Don Ferrette]

Got another Vegas finally delivered to me yesterday....I got it from T.L. and also purchased there turn fin..Im not sure if its adjusted properly or its just the nature of there fin, but it seems in the straightaways if you put any type of left in put into it it pulls the boat down...The other Vegas we have has the Grim racer fin on it and it doesnt do that and reacts well on left turns...T.L. turn fin the boat wont make a left turn unless you turn far and then the boat jumps out of the water...Grim's fin doesnt do that when making evasive maneuvers...[X(][X(]

Anybody run the T.L. fin and can look and tell me if its adjusted right???...The orange and white boat runs the T.L fin and the blue and white runs the Grim's fin....

Also the orange and white one (new) has a annoying spray from the back and its hitting the top of the turbine, i sure its taking in water...The blue and white one doesnt have that spray and run the same hardware just different props????

Well besides that there is a major difference where the leading edges & attack angles of both fins are, that TL fin seems to me like it's too thick & running rather deep in the water. Does the boat with the TL fin track straight with the same amount of trim setting as the other boat or does it pull right? :blink:

 

[waltr]

Hello 1outlaw,

I was looking at your pics and couldn't help but notice that you didn't use the mounting bracket that came with the Grim turn fin.

If you have it,you should consider installing it on the white boat.The Grim mount doesen't have that camber angle and puts the turn fin straight up and down in a better vertical position.Also gives more support tward the back of the turn fin.

The Grim fin is nicely done.

Try it,you'll like it.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Swinging the turn fin further under the boat is only going to make the problem that Jason is complaining about worse. Yes a 3 point is primarily designed to turn right but properly set up a hydro should be able to do less than full power left turns and/or corrections. That is the main issue with straight turn fins, they rely on the fixed angle to keep the boat hooked up when turning. The more angle needed to keep it hooked up when going right, the less it will tolerate turning left if at all. This is where a curved turn fin has it's advantages, it requires less initial angle, if any, & with experimenting with the amount of curve at the fin's bottom you can have a fin that will not only hang the boat on the buoys but allow left turns & corrections within reason. The Grimracer fin seems to have found this happy medium as the Vegas that I test drove at the last race had the GR fin on it, cornered great, turned left with no issues and is what my Vegas will have fitted to it once I've finished repainting it. And take no offense James but your fin could definitely stand to be alot thinner as a little boat like the Vegas will never place a side load on the fin to warrant that much thickness, not to mention the excess drag it will create. Unless the pic is real deceiving that fin looks as thick as what I run on my .90 hydro. :blink:

 

[rigger chaser]

Swinging the turn fin further under the boat is only going to make the problem that Jason is complaining about worse. Yes a 3 point is primarily designed to turn right but properly set up a hydro should be able to do less than full power left turns and/or corrections. That is the main issue with straight turn fins, they rely on the fixed angle to keep the boat hooked up when turning. The more angle needed to keep it hooked up when going right, the less it will tolerate turning left if at all. This is where a curved turn fin has it's advantages, it requires less initial angle, if any, & with experimenting with the amount of curve at the fin's bottom you can have a fin that will not only hang the boat on the buoys but allow left turns & corrections within reason. The Grimracer fin seems to have found this happy medium as the Vegas that I test drove at the last race had the GR fin on it, cornered great, turned left with no issues and is what my Vegas will have fitted to it once I've finished repainting it. And take no offense James but your fin could definitely stand to be alot thinner as a little boat like the Vegas will never place a side load on the fin to warrant that much thickness, not to mention the excess drag it will create. Unless the pic is real deceiving that fin looks as thick as what I run on my .90 hydro. :blink:

nope its not decieving,it really is that thick.i have both and i personally like the grim fin better.matter of fact they must have changed the fin design because mine is a lot smaller than that one unless the pix made it look big.i was tripping on the tl fin but switched it and grim fin held tightley to water.i can make a full left turn at full throttle and it wouldnt hesitate a bit

 

[1outlaw]

Pointless post

 

[rigger chaser]

Don is dead on..Ran the boat today tried all angles its worse tucked under the way you talked about..In fact like that its sucks that sponson down and plows water....And i repeat do not try any type of a left turn...Even for a evasive maneuver dodging another boat...Even slight movements upsets the boat.....The boat did a total of 5 180's today due to slight left hand corrections...And yes that fin is thick...Its causing a spray if it ever gets going from that sponson....We never ever got a single good run with this boat...This boat will not act like the other boat in no way shape or form.....It seems like its being sucked down in the straights in the turns...Can never get any air underneath it.....Tried numerouse strut depths and turn fin angles....Also the spray coming into the canopy from the back of the boat is filling it with water over any type of long run further making the boat slow.....Now for the kicker pulled it in for more adjustments and guess what we see???.....It appears a stress crack on the left sponson....Look at the pics you wont see any scratches where it hit anything..Its just there... :angry: :angry: ....James since i bought this from you are you going to take care of this or do i contact Aquacraft????.....I will post pics of the back of the white one for you James but there both the same except for prop......Also James i still havent got a controller...Had to use the one on the white boat..

[

Here you go James

Whats with this rudder you sent me for my shipping problems???...This isnt the one you sell for the Vegas is it??...Doesnt react real well on the hull...Very twitchy...And that water pickup doesnt work very well...

you got one of those too!!!!!!!!!!! i blew a .18 cvr because of the rudder.it only picks up water in a turn.i was told that i had it on wrong.im no idiot..i went back to my aeromarine rudder and grim fin..it is pretty sharp though would come in handy on fishing trip!!!!!!!

Don is dead on..Ran the boat today tried all angles its worse tucked under the way you talked about..In fact like that its sucks that sponson down and plows water....And i repeat do not try any type of a left turn...Even for a evasive maneuver dodging another boat...Even slight movements upsets the boat.....The boat did a total of 5 180's today due to slight left hand corrections...And yes that fin is thick...Its causing a spray if it ever gets going from that sponson....We never ever got a single good run with this boat...This boat will not act like the other boat in no way shape or form.....It seems like its being sucked down in the straights in the turns...Can never get any air underneath it.....Tried numerouse strut depths and turn fin angles....Also the spray coming into the canopy from the back of the boat is filling it with water over any type of long run further making the boat slow.....Now for the kicker pulled it in for more adjustments and guess what we see???.....It appears a stress crack on the left sponson....Look at the pics you wont see any scratches where it hit anything..Its just there... :angry: :angry: ....James since i bought this from you are you going to take care of this or do i contact Aquacraft????.....I will post pics of the back of the white one for you James but there both the same except for prop......Also James i still havent got a controller...Had to use the one on the white boat..

[

Here you go James

Whats with this rudder you sent me for my shipping problems???...This isnt the one you sell for the Vegas is it??...Doesnt react real well on the hull...Very twitchy...And that water pickup doesnt work very well...

you got one of those too!!!!!!!!!!! i blew a .18 cvr because of the rudder.it only picks up water in a turn.i was told that i had it on wrong.im no idiot..i went back to my aeromarine rudder and grim fin..it is pretty sharp though would come in handy on fishing trip!!!!!!!

 

[1outlaw]

Pointless post