Maybe it's time.......

[FrankPulteIII]

While I haven't been very active on this board, I have been buying and selling on forums since the mid 90s. Many started out pretty similar to this board with a small tight-nit group that could rely on trust to accomplish buying, selling, and trading fairly. As they grew so did the number of people that were willing to use the relative anonymity of the internet to take advantage. All forums that I have used developed some sort of feedback system eventually. It is an unfortunate byproduct of an online community growing. That being said, eventually there will be a time when the feedback section will be abused in a similar fashion or, at the very least, will result in a "he said, she said" argument. Thus it will need to be moderated, just like the b/s/t section will be. Sadly, this is a standard in the digital age. Mistakes will happen, as they always do, but as long as everyone generally keeps a level head, they will be resolved amicably. Make sure you recognize both personally and as group that this is not a poor reflection on this forum or its generally great members, it is a necessity to maintain the standards and trust you have all enjoyed up until this point.

 

[ACTION JACKSON]

I totally agree with a buyer and seller review page others need to know. I myself don't buy or sell much like others do.


Steve I don't think you need to be concerned..your a great guy & I respect you.

Thanks Allen i appreciate your positive reply. Back at you

 

[ACTION JACKSON]

Good conversation but here's what happened to me. Sent check after vendor sent product because he trusted me. My check never got there. A week or two later I called him up to order something else or we were just talking. He asked if I sent my money & I told him yes. I sent new check out right away. He got that one. I canceled first check & he never got it either. I felt bad but the post office dropped the ball some how. Should I be put on that list. I hope not. I still feel bad about it because I like to keep a upstanding personality to be known as honest. A lot to think about how this all should be done.

I should have put at the end that I don't have a problem paying up front either.

 

[ACTION JACKSON]

Works both ways... I like the idea of a forum section like they have over on JRCBD where you can leave both good and bad reviews on vendors and buyers and seller interactions.

The idea is fine but how are the vendors going to decide who's on the list if what happened to me & others that was perfectly honest. I appreciate vendor's that still go by honesty way of doing business. & the list is fine. I don't have a problem paying upfront either.

 

[Al Hobbs]

I am speaking only for myself, not as a representative for all model boat supply sellers and buyers.

My common glow plug shipment is $25,000 to $30,000. My common order for other items, such as headers, cable nuts, remote needle valves, etc. is 200 parts for each item. This keeps my cost as low as possible. I can pass on the low costs to the model boater and that keeps my prices low. Plus, I keep my markup low as well in support of the hobby.

I do not keep that kind of cash on hand, so I use a bank letter of credit. I pay about 6% interest on the letter of credit balance. As the product sells, I pay down the letter of credit. So, slow, late or non-payment can be problem.

I have just sent out reminder letters to people that either have not paid me or their payment was lost. Out of more than 200 sales in 2021, I only have to remind 6 people about an open invoice. And, it is quite possible that their payment was lost in the mail. A very few people were reminded earlier and have decided to pay. The total amount involved adds up to more than $1000.00.

Some people have mentioned that it is crazy to sell an item before being paid. Like many of you, I have sent payment to a person advertising on IW, and never received the item I paid for, or received junk in return. My opinion has been that I will never be known as someone who does not supply after being paid.

The simple way to alleviate non-payment is to take credit cards or PayPal. I did that for a while, but with the discounts and monthly fees, I could not justify it considering the volume of my sales. It's been suggested to tell my customers to use family and friends to avoid PayPal fees, but I am not about to ask someone to lie for me. So, to offer credit cards or PayPal, I would have to raise my prices to everyone, including on more than 200 sales that paid me promptly with no difficulties. I do not think it is right to raise my prices to everyone else because of a few slow pays.

First of all, my best friendships came through model boating. It is a great hobby and I definitely want to support it the best I can. I will not let a few people sour me on model boating either because of their behavior at the pond, or any other reason.

So, I will continue to offer the best products I can at the lowest prices I can. I trust model boaters and will ship the items with an invoice. But, I will post the names of those people who refuse to pay me.

Al Hobbs

 

[Joe Warren]

There are a few parts distributors collecting peoples money & not shipping parts too. It Must be a 2 way Road. If your going to post a new of bad apples.

 

[Joe Warren]

I am speaking only for myself, not as a representative for all model boat supply sellers and buyers.

My common glow plug shipment is $25,000 to $30,000. My common order for other items, such as headers, cable nuts, remote needle valves, etc. is 200 parts for each item. This keeps my cost as low as possible. I can pass on the low costs to the model boater and that keeps my prices low. Plus, I keep my markup low as well in support of the hobby.

I do not keep that kind of cash on hand, so I use a bank letter of credit. I pay about 6% interest on the letter of credit balance. As the product sells, I pay down the letter of credit. So, slow, late or non-payment can be problem.

I have just sent out reminder letters to people that either have not paid me or their payment was lost. Out of more than 200 sales in 2021, I only have to remind 6 people about an open invoice. And, it is quite possible that their payment was lost in the mail. A very few people were reminded earlier and have decided to pay. The total amount involved adds up to more than $1000.00.

Some people have mentioned that it is crazy to sell an item before being paid. Like many of you, I have sent payment to a person advertising on IW, and never received the item I paid for, or received junk in return. My opinion has been that I will never be known as someone who does not supply after being paid.

The simple way to alleviate non-payment is to take credit cards or PayPal. I did that for a while, but with the discounts and monthly fees, I could not justify it considering the volume of my sales. It's been suggested to tell my customers to use family and friends to avoid PayPal fees, but I am not about to ask someone to lie for me. So, to offer credit cards or PayPal, I would have to raise my prices to everyone, including on more than 200 sales that paid me promptly with no difficulties. I do not think it is right to raise my prices to everyone else because of a few slow pays.

First of all, my best friendships came through model boating. It is a great hobby and I definitely want to support it the best I can. I will not let a few people sour me on model boating either because of their behavior at the pond, or any other reason.

So, I will continue to offer the best products I can at the lowest prices I can. I trust model boaters and will ship the items with an invoice. But, I will post the names of those people who refuse to pay me.

Al Hobbs

Well Said AL.

 

[Timbo Whalen]

A 'list of shame' is not the answer- that would just further infect the hobby with the nonsensical drama that's quite prevalent, at present.

As Frank alluded to, a '5 star' rating system, like Amazon and just about everyone else online utilizes, with commentary, would be the right way to handle this.

ANYONE, both sides of the equation within the IW marketplace, should be rateable.

In reality, the gate to the clown kingdom swings in both directions.

Ultimately, it's up to us individually to choose with whom we transact with, and how.

Furthermore, the present rules regarding buy/sell here I'll only partially agree to. I'm going to feel someone out in PM before I transact, ideally having some telephone time with them...BEFORE initiating an 'I'll take it'. I've also expressed that to the proper authority here on IW.
The truth be told, my personal business here is absolutely no one else's- the exception being the 2 parties involved in the transaction.

I've been burned here twice, and by God, it'll not happen again.

Tim

 

[Joe Warren]

the gate to the clown kingdom swings in both directions. HA HA HA..... LMFAO

 

[ChrisHerzog]

On one of the Heli forums (Run Ryder) that I use to live on, they had both seller and buyer feed back. Whenever you sold anything you asked the buyer to leave feedback of the deal on your wall. You could do a search on anyone on the site to see if they did good deals with others or if they were dead beats as sellers or buyers. It worked great and I never did anything with anyone I did not know without looking at their feedback first. I did a ton of deals and not once had anything questionable happened. Personally, I would like to see something like that on here. I’ve only had one problem with someone on here (I did eventually get the promised items a couple weeks after the fact and after I decided that I wanted my money back instead of the items) but I would have never been in that situation had I read any of this guy’s feedback since he has been known to have problems.

 

[timothy johnson]

There is some good news and that is that we still have a great forum to buy and sell stuff for our model boats. With all that's been said I believe steps need to be taken by IA, sellers and buyer's to make our transactions safe. A list of people that don't pay or ship would be a quick solution however those that make the list would be quick to complain about it. I think a forum containing a list of offenders with some brief explanation may work. Lastly, at some point repeat offenders need to be band from IA. This problem is overdue for a fix.

 

[Ray Sametz]

I have an account with McMaster-Carr, receive an invoice in mail and pay with check mailed back. If I used the excuse my life is so busy I forgot to pay ******** all I can say is C'MON MAN! I can get anything I need from people I trust paying up front if need be.

 

[Grimracer]

On one of the Heli forums (Run Ryder) that I use to live on, they had both seller and buyer feed back. Whenever you sold anything you asked the buyer to leave feedback of the deal on your wall. You could do a search on anyone on the site to see if they did good deals with others or if they were dead beats as sellers or buyers. It worked great and I never did anything with anyone I did not know without looking at their feedback first. I did a ton of deals and not once had anything questionable happened. Personally, I would like to see something like that on here. I’ve only had one problem with someone on here (I did eventually get the promised items a couple weeks after the fact and after I decided that I wanted my money back instead of the items) but I would have never been in that situation had I read any of this guy’s feedback since he has been known to have problems.

One would also build as a "reputable" person to deal with.. RunRyder had it right...

Grim

 

[Tom Foley]

Good conversation but here's what happened to me. Sent check after vendor sent product because he trusted me. My check never got there. A week or two later I called him up to order something else or we were just talking. He asked if I sent my money & I told him yes. I sent new check out right away. He got that one. I canceled first check & he never got it either. I felt bad but the post office dropped the ball some how. Should I be put on that list. I hope not. I still feel bad about it because I like to keep a upstanding personality to be known as honest. A lot to think about how this all should be done.

This just happened to me . Stu sent out parts , I sent out two postal money orders a few days later . 30 days later I was asked if I sent payment which of course I did and showed proof of purchase . He never got them , had to file a Lost MO form with the post office for 13.00 and then wait ten days . got the new MO and deposited them to my bank account as they were made out to me , then got a Cashiers check , sent it out and he recieved it within a week . Still no word on whatever happened to the first MO's . Makes me look bad and those that know me know that's not the truth .

 

[Al Hobbs]

Yes, it certainly goes many ways. I have mailed checks in payment that never arrived. Either the post office lost them or they blew away with the wind. I actually received a payment and lost it myself. The vast majority of us are happy to work together and take care of each other properly.

But, apparently there are a few that do not respect others and either try to take advantage of others or to get something for nothing. As I said, more than 200 invoices in 2021 and only 6 where I have not received payment. That speaks very well for us.

If there is a problem most of us will figure it out and make everything right. But, there are a very few people that I would definitely like to see at a race..........

Al Hobbs

 

[ACTION JACKSON]

Yes, it certainly goes many ways. I have mailed checks in payment that never arrived. Either the post office lost them or they blew away with the wind. I actually received a payment and lost it myself. The vast majority of us are happy to work together and take care of each other properly.

But, apparently there are a few that do not respect others and either try to take advantage of others or to get something for nothing. As I said, more than 200 invoices in 2021 and only 6 where I have not received payment. That speaks very well for us.

If there is a problem most of us will figure it out and make everything right. But, there are a very few people that I would definitely like to see at a race..........

Al Hobbs

Understand Al. Just want to make sure when theses lists go up that honest people don't get burnt if not there fault.

 

[ACTION JACKSON]

This just happened to me . Stu sent out parts , I sent out two postal money orders a few days later . 30 days later I was asked if I sent payment which of course I did and showed proof of purchase . He never got them , had to file a Lost MO form with the post office for 13.00 and then wait ten days . got the new MO and deposited them to my bank account as they were made out to me , then got a Cashiers check , sent it out and he recieved it within a week . Still no word on whatever happened to the first MO's . Makes me look bad and those that know me know that's not the truth .

Appreciate the response. Just don't want to get honest people on a list that wasn't there fault.

 

[ChrisHerzog]

I wish you all could have been able to check out the way it was done on the Heli forum I mentioned above.

Basically it was like this… I list something for sale. While I’m putting it all together it ask me if I will only ship in the US or if I will ship anywhere. It also ask what form of payment I’ll take and what I won’t take. After it’s listed you see it and there is a button to go look at feed back for all my transactions and when I listed it. People can say good or bad and it gives me a chance to explain and give my side of a transaction if it was a bad one. You can see and read it all and make up your own mind if you want to do business with me. There is no list and if someone sucks they can still list stuff for sale but it’s on you to go look at there feed back. In turn if someone paid right a way you can point that out or if a check didn’t clear. You can also go back and comment on your own comments about someone. Maybe it was a bad deal but the guy made it right. You wrote something bad but then it got worked out and you can explain that and note if you would do business with that guy again, or not.

it was awesome!

 

[Steve Seebold]

I sold Mark Williamson a box of props in early July which he told me he’d pay me as soon as he inspected them.

After several attempts to contact him, with a different excuse every time, I finally got Don involved and I got paid in mid November.

Next time I I do business with Mark, I willl have what he’s selling in my hand before I send him any money.

I’m a parts manufacturer too, and yes I’ve made a few mistakes along the way, but I always made it right.

Now, if I don’t have parts on the shelf ready to ship, I WILL NOT ask for or accept payment.

 

[Bill Brandt]

You folks can do as you wish but in my primary work I retired as VP of one of Washington States largest credit unions for 32 years. One of my primary functions was to oversee the lending and collection function of the credit union. Two Facts.
1. When you start providing payment history/credit worthiness of an entity you become a “Credit Reporting Agency” under the regulations of the “Fair Credit Reporting Act”. You may consider it your right but about the time the debtor gets help from a legal aid attorney and sues you for damages you will quickly wish you had taken a different course.

2. As a reseller of parts in this hobby I will NEVER release any information regarding a customer, bad or good. Sometimes I might want to but the potential consequences are far too great.

You see these lists on other sites but unless you are aware of and prepared to be bound by the industry regulations i would simply caution against it. Ignorance of law or regulations doesn’t qualify as a defense of your actions.