Kep's 21 Freebie Outrigger PDF template drawing

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Had the boat out to day. Very disappointing 31775 RPM at 60MPH with a H7. Still don't have a handle on the set up. Had to run the strut 1/8" higher than the rear sponsons to get it on pipe. Took some tongue out of the prop and also reduced it. The H4 hooks up with the strut lower but no speed.

If I put the strut the way you have it in the pic. It won't get on pipe. What's the trick. Have the rear sponsons at 1/16 above the board.

Well Got more props to try. Keeping my hopes up that it will all come together.

David
You need it to have a real good set up overall (engine, pipe & boat) before you can use a H7 on a Kep's freebie. The H4 or H6 is more like it before you have it going really, really well.

Can you take a photo of its side view (also the complete boat) so I can have a look?

Have you built it 100% as the plans or made any modifications?

See the attachment & give me the measurements and we'll go from there.

/Niklas
Niklas

I had redone the rear sponsons last night so the mesurements are diffrent than what I ran it with last.

Hear is what I have

A 1832 g.

B 503 g.

C .685"

D .665"

E 1.620"

F 1.540"

G.665"

H 1.5 AOA

I have tried to build as close to plans as I can.

Thanks for the help

David
 
Had the boat out to day. Very disappointing 31775 RPM at 60MPH with a H7. Still don't have a handle on the set up. Had to run the strut 1/8" higher than the rear sponsons to get it on pipe. Took some tongue out of the prop and also reduced it. The H4 hooks up with the strut lower but no speed.

If I put the strut the way you have it in the pic. It won't get on pipe. What's the trick. Have the rear sponsons at 1/16 above the board.

Well Got more props to try. Keeping my hopes up that it will all come together.

David
You need it to have a real good set up overall (engine, pipe & boat) before you can use a H7 on a Kep's freebie. The H4 or H6 is more like it before you have it going really, really well.

Can you take a photo of its side view (also the complete boat) so I can have a look?

Have you built it 100% as the plans or made any modifications?

See the attachment & give me the measurements and we'll go from there.

/Niklas
Niklas

I had redone the rear sponsons last night so the mesurements are diffrent than what I ran it with last.

Hear is what I have

A 1832 g.

B 503 g.

C .685"

D .665"

E 1.620"

F 1.540"

G.665"

H 1.5 AOA

I have tried to build as close to plans as I can.

Thanks for the help

David
David, what has been done to the H-7? Dia reduced? What cup? If your RPM you stated is correct, you would have to have a massive amount of prop slip to only run 60 mph. Richard D
 
David,

Rudder is way long,propeller needs to be reduced in diameter and cup.

31,000 RPM is great with that pipe length, it looks long, measurement?

90 degree water fitting on the rudder outlet and reduce your cooling to

the motor to aprox. .040" and you should see some better results next

test session. Call me if you need more ideas.

Have Fun Testing,

Mark Sholund

231.590.3023
 
Had the boat out to day. Very disappointing 31775 RPM at 60MPH with a H7. Still don't have a handle on the set up. Had to run the strut 1/8" higher than the rear sponsons to get it on pipe. Took some tongue out of the prop and also reduced it. The H4 hooks up with the strut lower but no speed.

If I put the strut the way you have it in the pic. It won't get on pipe. What's the trick. Have the rear sponsons at 1/16 above the board.

Well Got more props to try. Keeping my hopes up that it will all come together.

David

i noticed you taped the rear sponsons on the boat.. try running about 2 degree's or 2 1/4 degree's attack angle on the rears and let me know if that helps.

also.. what is the tub height.. lay a ruler across the running surface of the front sponsons and measure from the tub to the edge of the ruler.

chris
 
Had the boat out to day. Very disappointing 31775 RPM at 60MPH with a H7. Still don't have a handle on the set up. Had to run the strut 1/8" higher than the rear sponsons to get it on pipe. Took some tongue out of the prop and also reduced it. The H4 hooks up with the strut lower but no speed.

If I put the strut the way you have it in the pic. It won't get on pipe. What's the trick. Have the rear sponsons at 1/16 above the board.

Well Got more props to try. Keeping my hopes up that it will all come together.

David
You need it to have a real good set up overall (engine, pipe & boat) before you can use a H7 on a Kep's freebie. The H4 or H6 is more like it before you have it going really, really well.

Can you take a photo of its side view (also the complete boat) so I can have a look?

Have you built it 100% as the plans or made any modifications?

See the attachment & give me the measurements and we'll go from there.

/Niklas
Niklas

I had redone the rear sponsons last night so the mesurements are diffrent than what I ran it with last.

Hear is what I have

A 1832 g.

B 503 g.

C .685"

D .665"

E 1.620"

F 1.540"

G.665"

H 1.5 AOA

I have tried to build as close to plans as I can.

Thanks for the help

David
If the "C" height is .685 (17.4 mm) then the "D" height should be around .787" (20 mm). There is a kick-up on the bottom of the tub from the rear most engine bulkheads towards the transom that is 3 mm high. So the starting point of the AoA of the tub is having its middle flat part level with the water then the rear height should be 3 mm more then the belly height.

The strut should sit on its rear most tip so to speak with an AoA of around 1 deg.

When you have adjusted the rear height you must re-adjust your front sponson AoA also.

Then I would set the rear lowest sponson tips at 17.5 mm depth with at least 1.5 deg AoA - try them with a higher AoA if you think they want to suck the rear down.

I noticed also that the drive dog sits almost all the way forward to the strut... Are you using a normal clamping engine coupler? If so there needs to be a 1/8-3/16" gap there.

The depth of the rudder we use is 45 mm below the rear sponsons - that looks a bit deeper.

The rudder weight is not too bad but these boats just runner better with them lighter in the butt (loading the engine/prop less) - there is quite alot of hardware on that tail that you can make lighter - try aiming for less then 480 g (16.9oz). Move the batterypack forward etc.

/Niklas
 
Had the boat out to day. Very disappointing 31775 RPM at 60MPH with a H7. Still don't have a handle on the set up. Had to run the strut 1/8" higher than the rear sponsons to get it on pipe. Took some tongue out of the prop and also reduced it. The H4 hooks up with the strut lower but no speed.

If I put the strut the way you have it in the pic. It won't get on pipe. What's the trick. Have the rear sponsons at 1/16 above the board.

Well Got more props to try. Keeping my hopes up that it will all come together.

David
You need it to have a real good set up overall (engine, pipe & boat) before you can use a H7 on a Kep's freebie. The H4 or H6 is more like it before you have it going really, really well.

Can you take a photo of its side view (also the complete boat) so I can have a look?

Have you built it 100% as the plans or made any modifications?

See the attachment & give me the measurements and we'll go from there.

/Niklas
Niklas

I had redone the rear sponsons last night so the mesurements are diffrent than what I ran it with last.

Hear is what I have

A 1832 g.

B 503 g.

C .685"

D .665"

E 1.620"

F 1.540"

G.665"

H 1.5 AOA

I have tried to build as close to plans as I can.

Thanks for the help

David
If the "C" height is .685 (17.4 mm) then the "D" height should be around .787" (20 mm). There is a kick-up on the bottom of the tub from the rear most engine bulkheads towards the transom that is 3 mm high. So the starting point of the AoA of the tub is having its middle flat part level with the water then the rear height should be 3 mm more then the belly height.

The strut should sit on its rear most tip so to speak with an AoA of around 1 deg.

When you have adjusted the rear height you must re-adjust your front sponson AoA also.

Then I would set the rear lowest sponson tips at 17.5 mm depth with at least 1.5 deg AoA - try them with a higher AoA if you think they want to suck the rear down.

I noticed also that the drive dog sits almost all the way forward to the strut... Are you using a normal clamping engine coupler? If so there needs to be a 1/8-3/16" gap there.

The depth of the rudder we use is 45 mm below the rear sponsons - that looks a bit deeper.

The rudder weight is not too bad but these boats just runner better with them lighter in the butt (loading the engine/prop less) - there is quite alot of hardware on that tail that you can make lighter - try aiming for less then 480 g (16.9oz). Move the batterypack forward etc.

/Niklas
Ok the tub should be level and the rear sponsons should touch the board? Right now I have the rear sponsons about .100 above the board with the tub level. The mesurments are showing this as they were taken with the boat flat on the board.

I am using a square drive set up no gap on drive dog.

I also have the data loger and GPS on board about 3oz.

This is were I am confused. The tub level should the sponsons touch the board and should the strut touch the board.

Setting up the front I under stand But I need to get the back straight first right?

David
 
Last edited by a moderator:
David,

Rudder is way long,propeller needs to be reduced in diameter and cup.

31,000 RPM is great with that pipe length, it looks long, measurement?

90 degree water fitting on the rudder outlet and reduce your cooling to

the motor to aprox. .040" and you should see some better results next

test session. Call me if you need more ideas.

Have Fun Testing,

Mark Sholund

231.590.3023
Mark

The pipe is at 8".

I have a .060 restriction at the rudder fitting and a.040 at the outlet fitting 205 deg logged.

Will call to night let me know whats a good time.

David
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Had the boat out to day. Very disappointing 31775 RPM at 60MPH with a H7. Still don't have a handle on the set up. Had to run the strut 1/8" higher than the rear sponsons to get it on pipe. Took some tongue out of the prop and also reduced it. The H4 hooks up with the strut lower but no speed.

If I put the strut the way you have it in the pic. It won't get on pipe. What's the trick. Have the rear sponsons at 1/16 above the board.

Well Got more props to try. Keeping my hopes up that it will all come together.

David

i noticed you taped the rear sponsons on the boat.. try running about 2 degree's or 2 1/4 degree's attack angle on the rears and let me know if that helps.

also.. what is the tub height.. lay a ruler across the running surface of the front sponsons and measure from the tub to the edge of the ruler.

chris
Chris will check tonight when I get home.

David
 
Had the boat out to day. Very disappointing 31775 RPM at 60MPH with a H7. Still don't have a handle on the set up. Had to run the strut 1/8" higher than the rear sponsons to get it on pipe. Took some tongue out of the prop and also reduced it. The H4 hooks up with the strut lower but no speed.

If I put the strut the way you have it in the pic. It won't get on pipe. What's the trick. Have the rear sponsons at 1/16 above the board.

Well Got more props to try. Keeping my hopes up that it will all come together.

David

i noticed you taped the rear sponsons on the boat.. try running about 2 degree's or 2 1/4 degree's attack angle on the rears and let me know if that helps.

also.. what is the tub height.. lay a ruler across the running surface of the front sponsons and measure from the tub to the edge of the ruler.

chris
Chris will check tonight when I get home.

David
Tub height would be the the "C" messurement... I would think.
 
Had the boat out to day. Very disappointing 31775 RPM at 60MPH with a H7. Still don't have a handle on the set up. Had to run the strut 1/8" higher than the rear sponsons to get it on pipe. Took some tongue out of the prop and also reduced it. The H4 hooks up with the strut lower but no speed.

If I put the strut the way you have it in the pic. It won't get on pipe. What's the trick. Have the rear sponsons at 1/16 above the board.

Well Got more props to try. Keeping my hopes up that it will all come together.

David
You need it to have a real good set up overall (engine, pipe & boat) before you can use a H7 on a Kep's freebie. The H4 or H6 is more like it before you have it going really, really well.

Can you take a photo of its side view (also the complete boat) so I can have a look?

Have you built it 100% as the plans or made any modifications?

See the attachment & give me the measurements and we'll go from there.

/Niklas
Niklas

I had redone the rear sponsons last night so the mesurements are diffrent than what I ran it with last.

Hear is what I have

A 1832 g.

B 503 g.

C .685"

D .665"

E 1.620"

F 1.540"

G.665"

H 1.5 AOA

I have tried to build as close to plans as I can.

Thanks for the help

David
If the "C" height is .685 (17.4 mm) then the "D" height should be around .787" (20 mm). There is a kick-up on the bottom of the tub from the rear most engine bulkheads towards the transom that is 3 mm high. So the starting point of the AoA of the tub is having its middle flat part level with the water then the rear height should be 3 mm more then the belly height.

The strut should sit on its rear most tip so to speak with an AoA of around 1 deg.

When you have adjusted the rear height you must re-adjust your front sponson AoA also.

Then I would set the rear lowest sponson tips at 17.5 mm depth with at least 1.5 deg AoA - try them with a higher AoA if you think they want to suck the rear down.

I noticed also that the drive dog sits almost all the way forward to the strut... Are you using a normal clamping engine coupler? If so there needs to be a 1/8-3/16" gap there.

The depth of the rudder we use is 45 mm below the rear sponsons - that looks a bit deeper.

The rudder weight is not too bad but these boats just runner better with them lighter in the butt (loading the engine/prop less) - there is quite alot of hardware on that tail that you can make lighter - try aiming for less then 480 g (16.9oz). Move the batterypack forward etc.

/Niklas
Ok the tub should be level and the rear sponsons should touch the board? Right now I have the rear sponsons about .100 above the board with the tub level. The mesurments are showing this as they were taken with the boat flat on the board.

I am using a square drive set up no gap on drive dog.

I also have the data loger and GPS on board about 3oz.

This is were I am confused. The tub level should the sponsons touch the board and should the strut touch the board.

Setting up the front I under stand But I need to get the back straight first right?

David
The tub level would mean when the strut at its set-up angle (about negative 1 deg) is resting at its rear most point on the set up board with the front sponons tops set up level. That equals to rear height over set-up board 3 mm higher then the belly height.

The rear sponsons should be set at about minus 2.5 mm of the rear height (D)... Egualling the same height over the set-up board...

#1. Set the belly height first at around 17 mm.

#2, Set the rear strut AoA of about 1 deg negative.

#3. Set rear strut height @ belly height (#1) + 3 mm.

#4, Set front left sponson flat top part to be level.

#5. Set front right sponson to be slitghtly nose-up vs the left sponson.

#6. Re-check and adjust the earlier points.

#7. Set the rear sponson height to 2.5 mm above set up board and at 1.5 deg AoA (or slightly more - not less anyway).

Thats the basic set-up.

Make shure the running surfaces are completely flat... Check again. I mean completely - not almost flat.

That should put it in the ball park if the rudder weight is less then 480 gr.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Had the boat out to day. Very disappointing 31775 RPM at 60MPH with a H7. Still don't have a handle on the set up. Had to run the strut 1/8" higher than the rear sponsons to get it on pipe. Took some tongue out of the prop and also reduced it. The H4 hooks up with the strut lower but no speed.

If I put the strut the way you have it in the pic. It won't get on pipe. What's the trick. Have the rear sponsons at 1/16 above the board.

Well Got more props to try. Keeping my hopes up that it will all come together.

David
You need it to have a real good set up overall (engine, pipe & boat) before you can use a H7 on a Kep's freebie. The H4 or H6 is more like it before you have it going really, really well.

Can you take a photo of its side view (also the complete boat) so I can have a look?

Have you built it 100% as the plans or made any modifications?

See the attachment & give me the measurements and we'll go from there.

/Niklas
Niklas

I had redone the rear sponsons last night so the mesurements are diffrent than what I ran it with last.

Hear is what I have

A 1832 g.

B 503 g.

C .685"

D .665"

E 1.620"

F 1.540"

G.665"

H 1.5 AOA

I have tried to build as close to plans as I can.

Thanks for the help

David
If the "C" height is .685 (17.4 mm) then the "D" height should be around .787" (20 mm). There is a kick-up on the bottom of the tub from the rear most engine bulkheads towards the transom that is 3 mm high. So the starting point of the AoA of the tub is having its middle flat part level with the water then the rear height should be 3 mm more then the belly height.

The strut should sit on its rear most tip so to speak with an AoA of around 1 deg.

When you have adjusted the rear height you must re-adjust your front sponson AoA also.

Then I would set the rear lowest sponson tips at 17.5 mm depth with at least 1.5 deg AoA - try them with a higher AoA if you think they want to suck the rear down.

I noticed also that the drive dog sits almost all the way forward to the strut... Are you using a normal clamping engine coupler? If so there needs to be a 1/8-3/16" gap there.

The depth of the rudder we use is 45 mm below the rear sponsons - that looks a bit deeper.

The rudder weight is not too bad but these boats just runner better with them lighter in the butt (loading the engine/prop less) - there is quite alot of hardware on that tail that you can make lighter - try aiming for less then 480 g (16.9oz). Move the batterypack forward etc.

/Niklas
Ok the tub should be level and the rear sponsons should touch the board? Right now I have the rear sponsons about .100 above the board with the tub level. The mesurments are showing this as they were taken with the boat flat on the board.

I am using a square drive set up no gap on drive dog.

I also have the data loger and GPS on board about 3oz.

This is were I am confused. The tub level should the sponsons touch the board and should the strut touch the board.

Setting up the front I under stand But I need to get the back straight first right?

David
The tub level would mean when the strut at its set-up angle (about negative 1 deg) is resting at its rear most point on the set up board with the front sponons tops set up level. That equals to rear height over set-up board 3 mm higher then the belly height.

The rear sponsons should be set at about minus 2.5 mm of the rear height (D)... Egualling the same height over the set-up board...

#1. Set the belly height first at around 17 mm.

#2, Set the rear strut AoA of about 1 deg negative.

#3. Set rear strut height @ belly height (#1) + 3 mm.

#4, Set front left sponson flat top part to be level.

#5. Set front right sponson to be slitghtly nose-up vs the left sponson.

#6. Re-check and adjust the earlier points.

#7. Set the rear sponson height to 2.5 mm above set up board and at 1.5 deg AoA (or slightly more - not less anyway).

Thats the basic set-up.

Make shure the running surfaces are completely flat... Check again. I mean completely - not almost flat.

That should put it in the ball park if the rudder weight is less then 480 gr.
Got it now thanks for the explnation.

Started to put it on a diet. Cut down the strut,cut the rudder and removing all unneeded hardwear.

Will give it a try. Have a AB H6 on the way and a AQ 45x68 to try. Will start over with Marks H4 to begin

Thanks for all the help.

David
 
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WOW learned a lot with the scale.

Started to cut down the strut and the mount cut the rudder, removed the pipe mount, removed the muffler(sorry Chris will put it back on when I remove the data logger and GPS).

Even the header and pipe length made a big difference.The most change is were you mount the pipe(leverage and all).

Got it at 481g. Going to get some aluminum hardware should get it even lighter.

I think you headed me in the right direction thanks Niklas.

David
 
David,

After last nights conversation I think you are on the right track now.

Just keep testing and it will all come together fast. If you need more

help you have my number.

Thanks,

Mark Sholund
 
WOW learned a lot with the scale.

Started to cut down the strut and the mount cut the rudder, removed the pipe mount, removed the muffler(sorry Chris will put it back on when I remove the data logger and GPS).

Even the header and pipe length made a big difference.The most change is were you mount the pipe(leverage and all).

Got it at 481g. Going to get some aluminum hardware should get it even lighter.

I think you headed me in the right direction thanks Niklas.

David
Sweet - keep us noted about the progress. :)
 
Well Well was out to day and ran the boat. Much better this time. Got the prop weight down to 876g.

Running a AB H5 got it to log 94MPH no bull. Just for a short time after the water line fell off. The magnet flung of the flywheel so no RPM registered. The temp got to 210 and it took off right before it burnt the plug.

Did log 33575RPM before the mag fell of.

Have to learn to not lean it down to much. But it's hard when your heart is pumping so hard. Newbie and all.

Average speed 66 at 175 temp 31000RPM. need more heat.

Thanks Niklas for the help. Heading in the right direction now.

Put a piece or durlon in the drum to make a ramp. Seams to work real good. AB#2 Pipe at 7 3/4". The speed master carb works killer.

Lost the cowl on the first run. 10 to 15 MPH wind and 2-4" chop in one end of the lake. Held its own in the chop.

Will see what happens next time.

David
 
Niklas got your decals on my .12 Zippkit notice the snap tie holding down the Texan pipe. the pipe & the NovaRossi came from Glenn. I use packing noodles to hold down my battery

xlbh1x.jpg


rbjog8.jpg


mwe7mw.jpg
 
Well ready as I will ever be for the Winter Nats. Got all the bugs out running strong with a AB prepped H5.

This little boat has bin to he77 and back. It has done stuffs,cart wheels and many flips. Even bounced off the retrieve boat coming in to hot. I named it Colline after my first wife. :blink:

What a little bi#%h!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Will see how it goes.

David
 
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Well ready as I will ever be for the Winter Nats. Got all the bugs out running strong with a AB prepped H5.

This little boat has bin to he77 and back. It has done stuffs,cart wheels and many flips. Even bounced off the retrieve boat coming in to hot. I named it Colline after my first wife. :blink:

What a little bi#%h!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Will see how it goes.

David
Man I'm hoping you wore that thing out !!! By the sound of it you are hauling packages ..not just mail !!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: See you in turn one !! :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well ready as I will ever be for the Winter Nats. Got all the bugs out running strong with a AB prepped H5.

This little boat has bin to he77 and back. It has done stuffs,cart wheels and many flips. Even bounced off the retrieve boat coming in to hot. I named it Colline after my first wife. :blink:

What a little bi#%h!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Will see how it goes.

David
Man I'm hoping you wore that thing out !!! By the sound of it you are hauling packages ..not just mail !!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: See you in turn one !! :D
It is what it is. <_<

Gust hope to finish a heat. :unsure:

This is only my 3rd race and the first time .21 rigger race. Be gentile with me. :rolleyes:

David
 
Well ready as I will ever be for the Winter Nats. Got all the bugs out running strong with a AB prepped H5.

This little boat has bin to he77 and back. It has done stuffs,cart wheels and many flips. Even bounced off the retrieve boat coming in to hot. I named it Colline after my first wife. :blink:

What a little bi#%h!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Will see how it goes.

David
Man I'm hoping you wore that thing out !!! By the sound of it you are hauling packages ..not just mail !!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: See you in turn one !! :D
It is what it is. <_<

Gust hope to finish a heat. :unsure:

This is only my 3rd race and the first time .21 rigger race. Be gentile with me. :rolleyes:

David
Were in the same boat ...I ran mine twice in the last three or four years !!!!! I've heard from spys that your boats is FAST !! Should be fun ..how's the lake looking ? :D
 
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