KEP T2

[Niklas Edlund]

One more:

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Hi Niklas,

Good looking 4S rigger. From you previous comments on the power system, that is a pretty hot set-up. I would say a little too hot for heat racing. The 38k must have been unloaded RPM or you are running very high cell voltages. In the data there is an option to adjust the pole count of the motor. If it was on 2 pole than the RPM would be double what it actually was.

The Castle controllers do not come with very high quality caps and this is one reason you see such high ripple currents. It is not too difficult to replace the generic caps with some higher quality Rubycon ZL caps. This will help reduce the ripple.

Our 4S riggers like the ABC 2 blade props like an 1816. We are seeing speeds in the 60's with the Ltd AQ motor and somewhere above 80 with an open motor set-up for 2-lap.

If you are looking for a better motor in a 36mm can, look at the Lehner Car line. These fit very nicely, produce lots of power and the connectors can be make compact due to the PCB soldering like RC car motors. Some pics of mine to see fitment.







Tyler

 

[Niklas Edlund]

Hi Tyler,

Thanks for the feedback.

Note, im an FE noobie and make no claim at knowing just about anything about electric boats.

The Castle esc works very good and I really like the datalogging as it makes me learn. The earlier recorded max ripple, wattage, amp draw and rpm seems a bit exagerated when looking at it more closely though. The average numbers (not peak) are much more conservative. I did a change of the boat before these two videos that unloaded the motor and did not build up heat in the esc as much. Now we're at max 63 deg C on the ESC and max 48 deg C on the motor.

As we are testing stuff to make the rules for our national FE-4S class I think our first try at it allows too much power and the overall weight becoming a bit high.

As we have allowed for a max motor size (this year) to be 40x74 it creates too much power I think (for what we had intended). Think a 36x60 will make it much easier and much closer to the P-Limited rules. Then the batteries will be lighter as well and no need for a 240A speedo.

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Agreed. We are going through some rules debates about the P-Ltd class motors. But for P-Hydro a light agile boat can easily compete with a heavy powerful boat even in the same water conditions. Brian Buass dominated in both P hydro and P-Ltd hydro using light systems with a stellar design. He was only running a Castle 1415 1Y 2400kv car motor for P.

TG

 

[Niklas Edlund]

Hi Tyler,

What esc's do you need to run with a Castle 1415 2400KV motor - is a 120/160A "enough" in real life racing?

The average/normal amp draw Ive seen so far with the bigger Castle 1512 2650KV car motor is now around 110-140A on 100% throttle. Its peaking at 174A but that is a very, very short time (cant even find it in the logger graphs). Voltage ripple is now at max 1.8V pulling the trigger out of the corners (without any extra cap-bank). But we've not optimized the set-up by any means. Still learning...

The 1816 prop - do you have any numbers on what you use, pitch, cup & dia?

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Niklas,

Some comparison data taken off the ICE 200 Lite Castle controller with different motor/battery/prop combo's in the same boat. And yes 120/160A is enough, but since the size is very little difference we run the 200A units which are actually 240A controllers with lightweight cooling instead of the big heat sink.

A LMT 1940 with the 1816 pulls about 190A peak, 136A average, average ripple is .25V (with good caps), max ripple is 2.02V from slow start to full throttle, loaded RPM is around 32kRPM. Speed is 80+mph. The prop measure 45mm, 3.51" pitch and 4.5" cup.

The same motor with a 1814 ABC prop, is 175A peak, 125A average, average ripple is .18V, peak ripple is 1.8V, loaded RPM is around 35kRPM. Speeds around 70mph. Prop measures 44.5mm, 2.84" pitch, 3.91" cup

With the Castle 1415, an ABC 1914, peak amperage 160A, average current 98A, average ripple is .47V, peak ripple is 2.15V, loaded RPM is around 27kRPM, speeds in the mid 70's. I don't have nany numbers off the 1914.

The ABC 1914, 1816, and similar props all work well. The new 17 Deg rake props should be even better.

If you are only pulling 120A average that is pretty close to ours depending on how much prop/motor we go with.

This is Brian's rigger making some practice runs. I believe this is very similar to his heat race set-up.

https://youtu.be/sYy7FIvPpsI

Here is a hotter set-up for 2-lap. Both videos are 2-3 years old and his boat is significantly faster now.

https://youtu.be/QguZfASDE8I

 

[Niklas Edlund]

Hi Tyler,

Very nice info - it will help me a lot!

When you water cool an Phoenix Edge Lite 200 - what parts do you use etc? I guess you upgrade them with the earlier mentioned caps - do you need any extra cap banks or just run the inboard ones?

/Niklas

 

[longballlumber]

Hi Niklas,

I have attached a couple of pictures of my Castle Phoenix Edge Lite 200. Castle places a small factory aluminum 3 sided extrusion that bridges the outer edge buss bars. If your careful you can place a couple of water cooling tubes on the INSIDE corners of the factory heat sink without changing the overall form factor.

One thing I haven't done that Tyler was talking about was changing/replacing the Caps. I should probably be looking at that next.

Good luck!

Another note: I am not sure if your a member on Offshore Electrics, but there was a decent thread about this subject. You might want to check it out.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?48691-Using-a-Castle-ICE-Aircraft-Controller-in-FE-boats

 

[Niklas Edlund]

Hi Niklas,

I have attached a couple of pictures of my Castle Phoenix Edge Lite 200. Castle places a small factory aluminum 3 sided extrusion that bridges the outer edge buss bars. If your careful you can place a couple of water cooling tubes on the INSIDE corners of the factory heat sink without changing the overall form factor.

One thing I haven't done that Tyler was talking about was changing/replacing the Caps. I should probably be looking at that next.

Good luck!

Another note: I am not sure if your a member on Offshore Electrics, but there was a decent thread about this subject. You might want to check it out.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?48691-Using-a-Castle-ICE-Aircraft-Controller-in-FE-boats

Hi Mike,

Thanks!

Ive been at the offshore electric site but not that much as we've been doing the nitro stuff mostly. Will check it out tho.

In your pics: Are those tubes glued with normal epoxy?

/Niklas

 

[longballlumber]

In your pics: Are those tubes glued with normal epoxy?

Hi Niklas,

I used a thermal adhesive readily available at my local computer store. Be careful, it's my understanding this epoxy type is still conductive. I am sure there are several other options.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_thermal_adhesive.htm

Later,

Ball

 

[Niklas Edlund]

Thanks!

 

[shoboat]

Niklas,

Brad has the new T-3 12-hydro just about ready to test. I will let you know

how the custom plans worked. The electric boat looked pretty good on the

water in the video. Don't be afraid to try the 1815 on that set up. These higher

Raked propellers were designed for the electric boats in Europe.

Thanks For Sharing,

Mark Sholund

 

[Niklas Edlund]

Niklas,

Brad has the new T-3 12-hydro just about ready to test. I will let you know

how the custom plans worked. The electric boat looked pretty good on the

water in the video. Don't be afraid to try the 1815 on that set up. These higher

Raked propellers were designed for the electric boats in Europe.

Thanks For Sharing,

Mark Sholund

I will test the FE tomorrow with alternative 36 mm motor(s). Need some new props though for next season - mainly FE & .21 props. The 45 is done and I'll publish freebie plans of that later this year (T3-45) but we wont do much more 45 racing ourselves tho I think so I wont need any props for those...

 

[Niklas Edlund]

Hi Niklas,Good looking 4S rigger. From you previous comments on the power system, that is a pretty hot set-up. I would say a little too hot for heat racing. The 38k must have been unloaded RPM or you are running very high cell voltages. In the data there is an option to adjust the pole count of the motor. If it was on 2 pole than the RPM would be double what it actually was.The Castle controllers do not come with very high quality caps and this is one reason you see such high ripple currents. It is not too difficult to replace the generic caps with some higher quality Rubycon ZL caps. This will help reduce the ripple.Our 4S riggers like the ABC 2 blade props like an 1816. We are seeing speeds in the 60's with the Ltd AQ motor and somewhere above 80 with an open motor set-up for 2-lap.If you are looking for a better motor in a 36mm can, look at the Lehner Car line. These fit very nicely, produce lots of power and the connectors can be make compact due to the PCB soldering like RC car motors. Some pics of mine to see fitment.

IMG_0700.JPG

IMG_1328.JPG

IMG_1329.JPGTyler

Some follow up Q:s...

- The Rubycon caps: are those of the same basic specs as the original ones?

- What size of alum tubing for cooling are you using - 4 mm dia or bigger?

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Hi Niklas,

The Rubycon caps are larger and better quality compared to the stock Castle ones. We use 5/32" which is nearly 4mm tubing either brass or aluminum.

I use 50V 680uF or 1000uF if I can them. If I am just running 2S and 4S, I will use 35V1000uF caps. Four per ESC in the stock locations.

TG

 

[brad nichols]

Well it's been awhile but here they are. 2 new .12 boats for Mark, just a few things left to do and they will be on their way.

 

[ALLAN YUEN]

DSC_0615.JPG

DSC_0616.JPG

DSC_0618.JPGWell it's been awhile but here they are. 2 new .12 boats for Mark, just a few things left to do and they will be on their way.

Who will be race at our district 16???

 

[Niklas Edlund]

DSC_0615.JPG

DSC_0616.JPG

DSC_0618.JPGWell it's been awhile but here they are. 2 new .12 boats for Mark, just a few things left to do and they will be on their way.

Looking sweet.

 

[Niklas Edlund]

Niklas,

Brad has the new T-3 12-hydro just about ready to test. I will let you know

how the custom plans worked. The electric boat looked pretty good on the

water in the video. Don't be afraid to try the 1815 on that set up. These higher

Raked propellers were designed for the electric boats in Europe.

Thanks For Sharing,

Mark Sholund

Need to change the flex then as my prop shaft is too short for the extra long hubs on the new 1815's. Not enough threads left to lock it.

 

[Niklas Edlund]

Hi Niklas,

The Rubycon caps are larger and better quality compared to the stock Castle ones. We use 5/32" which is nearly 4mm tubing either brass or aluminum.

I use 50V 680uF or 1000uF if I can them. If I am just running 2S and 4S, I will use 35V1000uF caps. Four per ESC in the stock locations.

TG

Thanks!