just a question about a possible 15cc mono conversion

[Tofastformellow]

while i have you guys here .i have to ask a question

i have a new seaducer 90/100 hull and was about to cough up for a new HR91 with running gear ..

but having fun with this little 6s boat has me curious about what could be done electrically ??

15cc mono conversion ...to a lipo powered electric

i have few choises in lipos

12s 2p 5000 ma rated at 250 amps constant and 500 amps surge ..

12s 1p 5000 ma rated at 125 amps constant and 250 amps surge ..

or

6s 1p 5000 ma rated at 125 amps constant and 250 amps surge ..

or

10s 3700 ma 110 amps conastant and 220 amps surge

what will run one of these bigger motors, running 6s in bigger boats seems to way to many amps for lipo ..?

i want to power a 44 inch seaducer properly ?? to be equal as fast as a 15cc .

what motor esc would you guys reco ??

please be gentle

Jason

 

[AlanN]

Jason,

Honestly I don't know what to compare a 15cc motor to in electrics.

Here in the States we have been using 3060-3080 (yes pricey boogers) and a schultze 40.160 speed controller on 10S2P in 40"+ monos and cats. This puts us over the 27cc size motors that is a standard in gas racing. Generally in the 60mph+ range. Of course this a very high end set.

I am sure someone will chime in with a comparable neu or similar motor. I believe a lehner 22 series can will give you what you want with that particular hull. You should not need over 80 amps (besides I don't think the leads to the motor will take it) to get it up to speed.

Just remember that the bigger and heavier the hull.....the large the motor will have to be to spin a larger wheel and disapate heat better.

Hmmm 12s would be near 40ish V under load. A 600Kv motor would put you in the mid 20,000 range easily. :angry: (I'm not really mad but my 4yr old likes to pick out the 'smiley faces')

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Jason,

I would go with the 12S2P (10Kmah total) and a Lehner 3060/13 and a Shultze 40/160 controller if you really want to motivate that boat. It would be much faster than a .91 or a 1.01 for that matter. Mid to upper 60s should be no problem.

Paul.

 

[JfromJAGs]

... to be equal as fast as a 15cc .what motor esc would you guys reco ??

My take would be to run the boat light, at similar weight as the nitro boat, but higher RPM. The above setups are more powerfull, but also heavier and spin only nitro RPM. Bascially I'd go for a Lehner 2280 or 3040 motor, a Schulze 40.160 controller, 12s1p (5000mAh) and RPM in the 30k+ range. Basically similar to what you did with your 6s setup: light and high RPM.

Joerg

 

[Tofastformellow]

Thanks guys !!

Quote "My take would be to run the boat light, at similar weight as the nitro boat, but higher RPM. "

yes the seaducers do like small props , but also like to be run wet , so thatwould present some load on an electric system..thats a concern.

the shultz looks the goods dosent it ..

i know they are a killer controller ..

any feedback on this 200A YGE controller ??

many thanks , whats the deal if magic smoke comes out these escs ? is there a warranty of some sort on these high end controllers??

i am not talking about over amping , just HV and watered esc = lots of smoke.. in my short experience

mmm lehner. nice motors

Jason

 

[Andrewg]

Jason

The plett 370/50A1s is good a bit faster than a 2280 at similar power levels - depending on wind but it works well within the Australian rules

From testing and racing the NEU 2215/2Y is the best motor - fast efficient and very powerful on 10S1P 5000mah setup. This motor can hold its own against X monos.

I ran this setup in a 17lb mono at BoB - it handled like a dog and wouldnt stay on the water but when it roughed up in the late afternoons I could keep it hooked up and the power was sensational on a low timingm, underpropped setup.

Currently running 25C Thunderpower 5000's Looking at 30C Neus in the comming months

 

[Tofastformellow]

Thanks guys ,

I would go with the 12S2P (10Kmah total) and a Lehner 3060/13 and a Shultze 40/160 controller if you really want to motivate that boat. It would be much faster than a .91 or a 1.01 for that matter. Mid to upper 60s should be no problem.
Paul.

man thats one wild setup !! holy cow ...
3.1kg of lipo , and 1.4 kg of motor , + 300 g speedy

holy shiznit.

7000 w , isnt that close to 8.5 hp??

@ 60 mph ?? i would think that setup would start at 60 mph..

a neu and 12 s 1p would come out a lot lighter ..

1.5 kg of lipo , .750kg motor and 300 g speedy

3300 w ... isnt that close to 4 hp ?

The above setups are more powerfull, but also heavier and spin only nitro RPM. Bascially I'd go for a Lehner 2280 or 3040 motor, a Schulze 40.160 controller, 12s1p (5000mAh) and RPM in the 30k+ range. Basically similar to what you did with your 6s setup: light and high RPM.

yes spot on ... the 6s setup can only be run fast on a mirror, BUT if its choppy/windy not really a usable everyday combo ...

The plett 370/50A1s is good a bit faster than a 2280 at similar power levels - depending on wind but it works well within the Australian rulesFrom testing and racing the NEU 2215/2Y is the best motor - fast efficient and very powerful on 10S1P 5000mah setup. This motor can hold its own against X monos.

I ran this setup in a 17lb mono at BoB - it handled like a dog and wouldnt stay on the water but when it roughed up in the late afternoons I could keep it hooked up and the power was sensational on a low timingm, underpropped setup.

Andew , nice to see some local testing , will be in touch

i need to do some real thinking. i am a little undecided.

we need a local 'lehner' motor dealer...

what is the difference with Asterisk and star motor config ?? in this application

Jason

 

[Andrewg]

Jason

get ready for the smell of burning flesh

Electric motor choice

All the power in an electric system is in the pack - it is the fuel tank and the combustion chamber. The motors do not make power they use power. Therefore the correct motor is not the largest it is the one which will make most efficent use of the energy and convert it to the intended use with the least losses (including its own momentum). Electric motors are best right sized and as efficient as possible.

This is particularly important when comparing US and Australian race setups. We run an effective maximum of 5.5AH packs. Amp loads are 125 amps (actually we race a rigger in 100-120 amp band and a mono 85-120, amps)

In the US 10AH means double that current is available. That means twice as much torque and 4 times as much heat. Larger, high mass motors make better use of the former and cope better with the latter. Perhaps that is why 30 series motros are so popular there - for current loadings here they are just heavy. And while we dont have to watch mass like we did nitro weight limits are proving a useful guide for 1P electrics.

There is a sound financial and performance reasoning behind our setups. First they are able to be scutineered in a few seconds, contain cost, are an easier load as components run cooler and the power systems and the converters are lighter because they have much lower heat loads (waste heat rises with the square of the current flow so twice the amps 4 times the heat). Already YGE and Castle have controllers which run at 15S and beyond which on 125 amps are not working hard so the door is wide open to the most efficient and highest output electric systems for the future.

 

[Andrewg]

Jason

There has been a lot of very thorough local testing and racing for over a year now

Most of it has used data loggers at some stage so the understanding of what is happening in boats and how to get the best from them without stressing whatever cells we use has emerged very quickly. There has been negligible equipment damage.

The difference between star and delta wind is the pattern in which the windings in a motor are linked when connected to the esc. One looks like a star (Y)the other a triangle (delta)

The delta wind has higher rpm/v figures while the Y wind has an rpm/v of 58% of a delta connected motor. Also the Y wind has a 58% increase in torque and presents an easier electrical loading for an esc.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Jason,

man thats one wild setup !! holy cow ...
3.1kg of lipo , and 1.4 kg of motor , + 300 g speedy

holy shiznit.

7000 w , isnt that close to 8.5 hp??

@ 60 mph ?? i would think that setup would start at 60 mph..

Yep, wild for sure. My heat racing mono runs in the upper 60s on a 1/3rd mile oval. Temps in the boat never exceed 115 degrees across the board and my average amp draw for a heat is between 5500 to 6200 mah. The average race length is 1 and 1/4 mile in about 2 minutes 30 seconds which includes full mill laps and a cool down lap. My boat weighs 20 pounds when it hits the water and I'm glad for it.

Paul.

 

[Andrewg]

This may interest you guys Han de Bruin's Plett 370/50/A1S motored, 7400 mah 10S powered H&M X-Ray 110Kph (68mph). Paul has some video of his somewhere too.

Jason - I am not sure big electrics are wild more smooth and fast... very easy and tractable power