Jae VS Eagle Sgx .21 Size Boats

[John Knight]

hi beau i have a 21 roadrunner rigger and set up right they go well . they dont turn as quick as the jae 21 but are stable in heat racing conditions with other boats around them . i have the standard roadrunner 21 rigger but there is a ultralight version aswell . you can still get them from a person called ralph, check in the forum that states engines , and rigger kits . another huy on here called joe w know alot about the roadrunner aswell. give him a pm he will put you on the right track mate,, my roadrunner is a little on the heavy side, weighs in at 5.1 piunds inus fuel, im going to make kighter engine mounts and also replace the alloy boom tubes with carbon fibre ones, this should reduce the weight down nicely,, hope this helps mate,, cheers jason ,

Ralph Almirola (RalphA here on IW) is the builder of all Roadrunners. There are 3 versions of them, the Standard, the Ultralight and the Extreme. Each get smaller and lighter than the previous one. The Extreme is really for seasoned racers as it is the lightest and requires the most skill in driving. The Ultralight is a good combo of both stability, lighter weight and excellent speed. They are outstanding heat racing boats and also hold some of the world speed records too.

 

[SayMikey]

Pros and cons of each boat. I was curious of everyones opinion.

Thanks Beau

I have tried just about all of the hulls and have build a 21 45 and 101 JAE and raced them. The 21 JAE is acceptable. By theirselves or in heats with just a few boats the 21 does okay. The bigger the boat 45 forward did not heat race well in a heat with several boats. They tend to trip in the turns. I think that there is still a lot of work need on the hull design, width and angle of the ramp, chine in the front sponsons should be considered, dihiedral in the front sponson and and placement of the motor in the hull etc. Running them by theirselves they are fast and turn well. But in a hard fought heat in my opinion they will not finish. The SGX with heat race well and finish.

+1

JAE swept Hobart 21 class,is that a "+"?

Sure is Ron, but when the field is mostly JAP's then the odds are a "+".

I prolly shouldnt have said "+1". I should have said.....it's all about the end user and what they can and want to do. All the JAE's I have seen run that weren't your boat, david's boat or the few other Team guys didn't run too well.

Just my worthless opinion.

Sorry for the interruption.

Buck

Team guys? we are all on the same team.Nitro boats. The Hobart winner was running a JAE kit boat with a 5 port Nova. He has spent many hours at the pond and no we have NEVER seen 70 mph. Saying that it was a perfect score,in a 20 boat field you cant back into that win...

 

[anthony_marquart]

I guess I should be proud of my 67mph 5p powered rigger.

 

[dwilfong]

Any boat is only as good as the person setting it up and driving it. Racing conditions are different every time you drive. Some times you are the bug and some times the windshield.

Yes 67 is a fast "heat racing" speed for a 21 hydro. If it can handle race water with 5 or 6 boats. It is all just talk till you put it on the pond. then you will see.

David

 

[LarryConrad]

Get 'em all! You can never have too many .21 hydros!

 

[Richard Dahlheimer]

I will go along with that Larry. lol Richard D

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

it is all what you make of it.. one better than the other.. that kind of thing goes on in any form of anything of sports.. alot of it boils down to 2 things.. money and time.

the jae is a great boat.. you have to either build it or find of the guys that build them and sell them.. andy builds nice stuff that has won alot over the yrs.. i don't know what kind of lead time he has right now as he is hard to get ahold of.

the key is not what is better but how much time you are willing to spend.. I don't care if ron zaker, myself, kently porter, stu barr, aaron alberico and so on built a boat or designed a boat what ever.. if you arn't willing to spend the time and test., and learn the boat. none of it is going to work PERIOD..

so with that.. look at your budget.. and how much time you are willing to spend.

i can say this much.. with either boat 90 percent of your time should be spent on props.. i say it all the time for a reason.. most people think they will BUY the props and be magic.. sure sometimes they can get lucky.. but alot of times you must spend the time tweaking to get the boat right.

so what is better.. i guess you decide. . both have one and i am sure both will continue to win.

chris

I agree most with this. The equation is simple. If you have more time than money than maybe the JAE is a better boat for you. If you have more money than time maybe the SGX is better for you.

Back in the late 90s I used to go out to the pond with my dad almost every Saturday all year round (Thank you California weather). I remember back then, despite our best efforts and all the time we spent, maybe only having a boat that ran maybe 60 to 65 mph and that was a .67 boat. It was built taking measurements of a boat from a guy in our district who got his plans from guys down south in the LA area. It was a solid contender but not the fastest around. (Nationals Level) My buddy crashed into me head on in a heat race (I'll explain that later) and hurt the boat pretty bad. He felt so bad he called around a got a boat from down south already built. This boat with my same engine and pipe ran a solid 70 mph and was about on par with the fastest around. (Not much testing needed, just a near instant jump) But there were only a few on that par with that in all of NAMBA. Then life and work started to set in and I had less and less time for testing. Years later I got a boat from Andy. Without testing I went from a 70 mph boat to a 77 mph that could handle a bit of rough water doing it on it's first time out. (this was back around 2002).

Now we have no practical practice pond so testing is only the day before at the races on a race weekend so we are very limited in test time now. Ready made boats or neat to it offer guys with less time a chance to get in the water quickly with a competitive boat. Even with all the year's of boating I had yet to acheive the level that I can get from a guy who made that same performance I was seeking his full time business.

I know Andy's focus was to level the playing field so there wasn't just one guy running away with everything all the time. He designs boats with, I would say, the intermediate boater in mind so that he can acheive strong competitive performance from the very near beginning with room for more seasoned boaters to fine tune for even better performance.

That is the reason I actually chose to race Andy's boats. I know it's better for the health of the hobby for everyone to feel they have a fair chance. Since I was the first with one of his boats that ran really well, I was running away with everything in the beginning but I could tell people they could get the exact same thing from Andy. Now in our area the race belongs to anybody. Where before the same guys were winning every single heat. Now if a guy has TIME and MONEY he could do even better but most only have one or the other.

The Eagle line of boats can put you in the money out of the gate. Pipes, Props, set-up and even engines if you can get one laying around will put you in the money right away once you get your boat. There is no guessing. You don't have to be in the special click to get the hot set-up, or on the VIP List just go to the website and look it up. Having that type of access instant success (or neat to it) takes the frustration out of boating for guys who aren't so much into the modeling part of it but mostly enjoy the racing part. Then they can put their boats away, and go back to the honey dos, the soccer games, and piano recitals for the next couple of weekends and still come back to consistently competitive equipment.

It depends what you have the money or the patience for but money or not you do have the waiting time for your boat to arrive so I guess wait at the mailbox for the performance you need to compete on a high level or wait til you find it one day at the pond while tinkering. Which ever floats your boat. (Pun Intended) ; )

For me it's all about time. When I was kid my dad came home by 3:30. He was at his work bench after dinner, feeding and gauzing at his fish and even watchin the 5 o' clock news by 6pm. Now a days you know what I am doing at 6pm? Usually getting an email about the meeting I have with the CEO at 8pm that same night and that's not a dinner meeting either.

 

[Buckshot]

it is all what you make of it.. one better than the other.. that kind of thing goes on in any form of anything of sports.. alot of it boils down to 2 things.. money and time.

the jae is a great boat.. you have to either build it or find of the guys that build them and sell them.. andy builds nice stuff that has won alot over the yrs.. i don't know what kind of lead time he has right now as he is hard to get ahold of.

the key is not what is better but how much time you are willing to spend.. I don't care if ron zaker, myself, kently porter, stu barr, aaron alberico and so on built a boat or designed a boat what ever.. if you arn't willing to spend the time and test., and learn the boat. none of it is going to work PERIOD..

so with that.. look at your budget.. and how much time you are willing to spend.

i can say this much.. with either boat 90 percent of your time should be spent on props.. i say it all the time for a reason.. most people think they will BUY the props and be magic.. sure sometimes they can get lucky.. but alot of times you must spend the time tweaking to get the boat right.

so what is better.. i guess you decide. . both have one and i am sure both will continue to win.

chris

I agree most with this. The equation is simple. If you have more time than money than maybe the JAE is a better boat for you. If you have more money than time maybe the SGX is better for you.

Back in the late 90s I used to go out to the pond with my dad almost every Saturday all year round (Thank you California weather). I remember back then despite our best efforts and all the time we spent maybe only having a boat that ran maybe 60 to 65 and that was a .67 boat. It was scratch built from some plans built by a guy in our district who got his plans from guys down south. It was a solid contender but not the fastest around. My buddy crashed into head on in a heat race (I'll explain that later) and hurt the boat pretty bad. He felt so bad he called around a got a boat from down south already built. This boat with my same engine and pipe ran a solid 70 mph and was about on par with the fastest around. (No testing, just an instant jump) But there were only a few on that par. Then life and work started to set in and I had less and less time for testing. Years later I got a boat from Andy. Without testing I went from a 70 mph boat to a 77 mph that could handle a bit of rough water doing it on it's fist time out. (this was back around 2002).

Now we have no practical practice pond so testing is only the day before at the races. We are very limited. Ready made boats offer guys with less time a chance to get in the water quickly with a competitive boat. Even with all the year's of boating I had yet to acheive the level that I can get from a guy who made that same performance I was seeking his full time business.

I know this was Andy's focus was he wanted to level the playing field so there wasn't just one guy running away with everything all the time. He designs boats with, I would say, the intermediate boater in mind with room for more seasoned boaters to fine tune.

That is the reason I actually chose to race Andy's boats. I know it's better for the health of the hobby for everyone to feel they have a fair chance. Since I was the first with one of his boats that ran really well, I was running away with everything in the beginning but I could tell people they could get the exact same thing from Andy. Now in our area the race belongs to anybody. Where before the same guys were winning every single heat. Now if a guy has time AND money he could do even better but most have one or the other.

The Eagle line of boats can put you in the money out of the gate. Pipes, Props, set-up and even engines if you can get one laying around will put you in the money right away. Having that type of instant success takes the frustration out of boating for guys who aren't so much into the modeling part of it but mostly enjoy the racing part. Then they can put their boats away, and go back to the honey dos, the soccer games, and piano recitals for the next couple of weekends and still come back to a consistently competitive equipment.

It depends what you have the money or the patience for but money or not you do have the waiting time for your boat to arrive so I guess wait at the mailbox for the performance you need to compete on a high level or wait til you find it one day at the pond while tinkering. Which ever floats your boat. (Pun Intended) ; )

Well said Roger!

 

[aaron alberico]

Any boat is only as good as the person setting it up and driving it. Racing conditions are different every time you drive. Some times you are the bug and some times the windshield.

Yes 67 is a fast "heat racing" speed for a 21 hydro. If it can handle race water with 5 or 6 boats. It is all just talk till you put it on the pond. then you will see.

David

David

No Disrespect to you or anyone else

but 67mph in 21 hydro from my experience over here just wont cut it! Dont get me wrong you can win even with a 60mph 21 hydro but you are relying on a certain couple of 21 riggers to stuff up!

regards Aaron

 

[David Bryant]

Back in the late 90s I used to go out to the pond with my dad almost every Saturday all year round (Thank you California weather). I remember back then, despite our best efforts and all the time we spent, maybe only having a boat that ran maybe 60 to 65 mph and that was a .67 boat. It was built taking measurements of a boat from a guy in our district who got his plans from guys down south in the LA area

are you still in California area? If so where? You run at Legg Lake?

 

[Martin Hamilton]

Aaron how do you find the JAE hydros in general compared with other designs. Thanks Martin.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Back in the late 90s I used to go out to the pond with my dad almost every Saturday all year round (Thank you California weather). I remember back then, despite our best efforts and all the time we spent, maybe only having a boat that ran maybe 60 to 65 mph and that was a .67 boat. It was built taking measurements of a boat from a guy in our district who got his plans from guys down south in the LA area

are you still in California area? If so where? You run at Legg Lake?

Yes. Still in Cali. Up North though in District 9. Legg Lake is down south in District 19 of course back in the day it used to all be Disctrict 9.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Has any one had any luck with a .21 size roadrunner? Do they make a .21 size roadrunner?

There was a guy in our district that had a very fast .21 Road Runner. It was much faster than every one elses. But then he stopped running it after he got his SG and I never saw him run that boat again. But to be honest his Road Runner seemed to be just as fast and handle just as well but maybe not since he never went back to it. Just my observation.

 

[David Bryant]

Back in the late 90s I used to go out to the pond with my dad almost every Saturday all year round (Thank you California weather). I remember back then, despite our best efforts and all the time we spent, maybe only having a boat that ran maybe 60 to 65 mph and that was a .67 boat. It was built taking measurements of a boat from a guy in our district who got his plans from guys down south in the LA area

are you still in California area? If so where? You run at Legg Lake?

Yes. Still in Cali. Up North though in District 9. Legg Lake is down south in District 19 of course back in the day it used to all be Disctrict 9.

ah, I see, thanks. I ask because I'm in Socal area, been running at Legg Lake (NAMBA District 19) since back in the early 1970's. Thought maybe I'd catch you over there on one of these saturday's. Which lake do you usually run at? Kaiser Cove? Fremont? Lake Minden? Seaside?

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Back in the late 90s I used to go out to the pond with my dad almost every Saturday all year round (Thank you California weather). I remember back then, despite our best efforts and all the time we spent, maybe only having a boat that ran maybe 60 to 65 mph and that was a .67 boat. It was built taking measurements of a boat from a guy in our district who got his plans from guys down south in the LA area

are you still in California area? If so where? You run at Legg Lake?

Yes. Still in Cali. Up North though in District 9. Legg Lake is down south in District 19 of course back in the day it used to all be Disctrict 9.

ah, I see, thanks. I ask because I'm in Socal area, been running at Legg Lake (NAMBA District 19) since back in the early 1970's. Thought maybe I'd catch you over there on one of these saturday's. Which lake do you usually run at? Kaiser Cove? Fremont? Lake Minden? Seaside?

Hmmm. I don't remember you but back in the 70s I was no more than 10 years old. If you go back that far then you probably ran at our old test pond which was the percolation ponds off of highway 17. Races used to be held there all the time. We mostly only go to the Fremont pond and that's only on race day. Monterey his hit or miss now. Pretty much it's just Minden and Fremont. We were at the nats this year in LA. Did you go?

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Any boat is only as good as the person setting it up and driving it. Racing conditions are different every time you drive. Some times you are the bug and some times the windshield.

Yes 67 is a fast "heat racing" speed for a 21 hydro. If it can handle race water with 5 or 6 boats. It is all just talk till you put it on the pond. then you will see.

David

David

No Disrespect to you or anyone else

but 67mph in 21 hydro from my experience over here just wont cut it! Dont get me wrong you can win even with a 60mph 21 hydro but you are relying on a certain couple of 21 riggers to stuff up!

regards Aaron

I've seen video of your boats. You have some very fast equipment. I'd love to race you. My stuff isn't near as fast but I'd love the tough competition anyway.

So what's your opinion between SGX and JAE.

Maybe a more helpful answer for those reading would be... How many man hours did it take to get the Eagle to a competitive speed and performance, (speed/lap times/) then how much it take to get it beyond that compared to the time it took you to get your JAE up to a competitive speed and performance and how much time to get it to where you are today.

 

[David Bryant]

Hmmm. I don't remember you but back in the 70s I was no more than 10 years old. If you go back that far then you probably ran at our old test pond which was the percolation ponds off of highway 17. Races used to be held there all the time. We mostly only go to the Fremont pond and that's only on race day. Monterey his hit or miss now. Pretty much it's just Minden and Fremont. We were at the nats this year in LA. Did you go?

yeah, I've been involved on-and-off over the years. Just getting back into things right now actually, been away for a while, excited to get back out to the lake. But I have participated in select District 19 heat racing events over the years, mostly at Legg Lake, San Diego Model Yacht Pond, Needles, Tucson. Raced with Don Donikowski, Jack Oxley, Cathy Galbraith and the crew, and many others. I can remember Ralph Henry and Jean Adams and many others way back in the day.
Always wondered, where do they race at in Monterey (I'm up there quite often at Laguna Seca)? Did you ever race when Howard Power was running?

Anyway, don't mean to derail this thread........

 

[aaron alberico]

Any boat is only as good as the person setting it up and driving it. Racing conditions are different every time you drive. Some times you are the bug and some times the windshield.

Yes 67 is a fast "heat racing" speed for a 21 hydro. If it can handle race water with 5 or 6 boats. It is all just talk till you put it on the pond. then you will see.

David

David

No Disrespect to you or anyone else

but 67mph in 21 hydro from my experience over here just wont cut it! Dont get me wrong you can win even with a 60mph 21 hydro but you are relying on a certain couple of 21 riggers to stuff up!

regards Aaron

I've seen video of your boats. You have some very fast equipment. I'd love to race you. My stuff isn't near as fast but I'd love the tough competition anyway.

So what's your opinion between SGX and JAE.

Maybe a more helpful answer for those reading would be... How many man hours did it take to get the Eagle to a competitive speed and performance, (speed/lap times/) then how much it take to get it beyond that compared to the time it took you to get your JAE up to a competitive speed and performance and how much time to get it to where you are today.

Roger,

i have run sg, and sgx 21, 45, 67's and twin''s over the years, set 2lap and SAW records with them too,

from my personal experience the JAE design boat ROCKS!!! over anything else i have run the way it handles and turns etc, etc etc

also alot easier to set up then other boats i have run. my lap times ane better with the JAE's, speed around the same little better with JAE'S

my last 21 rigger was a firefighter i was running between 75-80mph in good water by myself with that boat but when it came to race conditions the boat would not stay hooked up and handle that great,

been running Jae for 2 years now first time in the water saw 80mph, and fastest i have seen is 86mph and has been clocked on stalker rader at major events during

a race at 80mph+ several times and handles great, in August i ran 57.57sec heat time at a major event with 21 JAE, which no one has ever done in OZ before,

also love my 45 and 67 JAE, and working on building a twin JAE at the moment,

there are several video's on my youtube you can have a look at..MrOzspec

regards Aaron

 

[Beau Parsons]

I think that if the price of a Eagle was more affordable they would draw more people. A Jae is cheap and somethimes too cheap. History has shown the Eagle has been the top dog for some prestine years before the Jae was ever developed. So I think it is all personal choices. What works for one fellow may not work for another.