JAE 45 Help

[Heywhire]

David,

I am just about in the same situation. I have pieces and parts and trying to make it work, what I dont have I am trying to buy. I just got a 18" hughley flex shaft from http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=38034, Timothy Jones and going to get my turnfin from Mike Hughes http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=40900.

Alexander,

I will probably use the CMDi motor mount but the speedmaster universal was also mentioned, I am going to have to look at that one also. This is the first rigger I have actually gotten this far. I am making it exactly to the plans so hopefully it will turn out good. I have to take more pictures and post, maybe tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Paul Traufler]

Hey guys I have a build log on the web for the JAE 45, check it out. I'm close to the painting stage, but more sanding and sealing is ahead.

My JAE Build Log

 

[Alexander King]

Hey guys I have a build log on the web for the JAE 45, check it out. I'm close to the painting stage, but more sanding and sealing is ahead.

My JAE Build Log

Paul Beautiful build and log!

One question on bulkhead placement.... I see that you have moved the #1 bulkhead back some. In the drawing there is 10" between the sponcson booms (center to center) which might too large for a 12 oz tank. Also for the bait box which is not a part of the original drawings, about how far forward did you place the bulkhead from the transom? I had plan to split the radio box and have the rudder servo alone in the rear bait box (w/covered of course) and rest of the radio equipment spread out in the second half.

Thanks for heads up of the log On the home site I didn't see that till I actually searched for it..

 

[Paul Traufler]

Thanks, it has been a LONG time since I built a boat! But I must say it has been fun and I really have enjoyed it so far. (OK maybe not the sanding part so much!)

Yes this is a bit different than the plans, the #1 to #2 is about 7". (I'm not at home to give you the actual measurement.) The tank area is a bit tight to get a 10 Oz metal tank in place but it will work. (Walt Barney tank no less) I plan to add a water drain hole in the #2 bulkhead so it will pass any water to the engine area and out the bottom drain hole. I would also suggest a radius cut on the top of the bulkhead to give you more room with the tank/fuel lines and carb.. I'm a bit worried that if you have to slow down and you have some water in the engine bay it may rush forward and hit the #2 bulkhead, splash up into the carb. and kill the motor. I guess if you slanted the bulkhead forward this would not happen. I'll just have to keep it on full throttle! ;-)

The rear radio box bulkhead is about 3" in front of the transom, this makes a easier to seal up radio box. The radio box bulkhead placement is not real critial, but 3" still gives you plenty of radio box room and makes hardware install a bit easier also. I must give credit to David Hall for the work he did on the JAE for me, gave me a leg up on this project.

 

[Heywhire]

Here are a few pictures of my progress. I to some West Systems expoxy and thinned it with alcohol so it would be thin enough to seep into the grain of the wood and then put another thinned coat when it got tacky. Once dried over night I sanded and then primed it with sandable filler primer starting off with 220 then 320 then finished with 400 grit sandpaper. I then sprayed it with white base coat, once I figure the paint scheme I will then spray Duplicolor clear coat to finish it.

I know that the plans don't show where to put the "Bait Box" but I just took a rubber boot and added about 1/4" from the transom. I also put my steering servo on the center line and made 2 places for HS-81 servos, 1 for throttle and the other for mixture (in the future). For the fuel tank I am using the dubro 12oz tank and to keep it from sliding side to side I put some balsa on the sides then sealed it.

Thanks for looking and if you see something wrong or have any suggestions feel free to tell me.

Thanks

 

[Heywhire]

Some More.................

 

[Paul Traufler]

Heywhire, looks good! I'm not a big fan of the thin out the expoy, West does not like you to do that either. I do think the West epoxy is pretty thin to start with, unless it is like 40 degrees. (Use a hairdryer to heat/thin it some if required.) I would go easy on the primer also, that stuff is like lead, but if you sand off 99% of it good deal! I have a aerospace background so it is all about strength vs weight for me. Stuff like priming the inside of the radio box, or engine bay only adds weight, nothing more really. The epoxy will seal her up fine, why bother with primer on a inside surface also. I know the 45 will have plenty of power to drag you around, but extra weight is never a good thing with racing. Looks like you will be finished ahead of mine, please let us know how she runs!

 

[Alexander King]

Heywire

Looking good I think Paul pointed out some things that you might have not known about but the boat looks great finish her up! Are you sure this is your first rigger? Also, did you go with a 1/8th bottom for the hull or a 1/16th ply? And last thing the tank you'er using... will the tank be taller then the side rail profile?... just was wondering. In anycase, you and Paul will have yours finished way before me for sure. I just recieved the templet matereal to start making temples yesterday but I have no wood to cut yet. I hope I will have some by tomorrow....

 

[Heywhire]

Alexander,

This is the first one that I have gotten this far. For along time I built airplanes but decided to go with boats for a change. I did go with 1/8 on the bottom because on the plans it states that if you use less on the bottom of the tub you will have to add it to the ski to give it the 1" ride height. I am sure this will not be the last one I build of the JAE and yeah I agree with Paul, I could have done things different. The next one I do will be a culmination of what I have learned from this one. The dubro tank does go over the profile of the sides so I am going to use the blue foam to form a cowling, cover it in duct tape, fiberglass it and then pull the foam out.

 

[Paul Traufler]

Heywhire I to did the airplane side, but that was 28+ years ago also, a lot has changed! The build it square and true from the airplane side holds true with the boat side as well.

That 1/8" bottom would be way overkill I think, 1/16" is fine. (Add the carbon fiber tissue to the 1/16 and it is rock solid!) That tank it pretty high over the sides, but you can do the cowl as you suggest, I would rather have the metal tank and have it slim and trim! After all it is about going fast AND looking good while doing it! One thing I plan to do also is have the brass boom tubes in the tub flush with the sides and use some collar clamps against the tub sides to hold the sponsons/booms in place. By doing the brass flush it makes it MUCH easier to sand the tub sides, less drilling the boom rods, and I think it looks better more finished. (Callars available from MCMaster Carr in plastic or aluminium, and Zip Kits has them also I think) There are many changes one can make to the JAE, and the easy of building makes it simple to test different paths.

 

[Alexander King]

Ah! No wonder both builds look nice and neat..But any mistakes made will help you avoid them in your next build Heywire this is my 5th attempt and first from plans... Im still learning. So, 1/16th inch is ok as well as 1/8" for the bottom of the hull as long as you have 1" ride height like the plan says.. I was going to use 1/8" ply along with Paul's CF tissue method, but if 1/8 bottom its over kill I guess will go with the 1/16"ply then. Too bad I didn't think of this when I ordered wood, I could had saved some money and purchased the CF tissue Im sure the 1/8" ply will come in handy for something else .. Ok question maybe both of you can answer ... Where do I purchase sponson booms from and where do I get the correct foam for the sponsons from? I don't need 6 ft by 4 ft foam sheet for a few sponsons.

 

[Paul Traufler]

The CF tissue (also called CF veil) is not cheap (1/2 Oz/Yrd runs about $18/yard), so money save is not what that is about. As for foam here is a place you can get foam in sizes you can deal with. (Low cost also.) RC Foam They have CF rods also, pretty good prices on them. There are other places with CF rods, do a WEB search and you can look them over, the price/quality vary a good bit. Here is another CF place (Good price on CF tissue) CF place

Divinycell H is the ticket for foam, BUT it costs about like gold also! Hard to find smaller sheets and a whole sheet would cost $150 or more. Spyder foam is a blue foam that works pretty well and is lower cost and available. There are other foams also, but this is enough food for web surfing for now!

 

[Paul Traufler]

A better place for CF rod is: CF Rod

Look for R19A 48" long (cut in half as you need two 24" booms), $19 so that is pretty good deal. There will be some shipping to add to this. ACP has many CF products so look around their web site and make a big order!

 

[Heywhire]

I got my blue foam from Lowe's, it was a 2 foot by 8 foot piece and it cost 10.00 and I think it was 1" thick.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_14539-46086-174672_4294858106_4294937087?productId=3050991&pl=1&currentURL=/pl_Insulated%2BSheathing_4294858106_4294937087_?cm_cr=Insulation-_-Web%20Activity-_-Insulation%20A1%2006.11.2010-_-SC_Insulation%20%20Accessories_Area1-_-22108_5

 

[Ron Zaker Jr]

A better place for CF rod is: CF Rod

Look for R19A 48" long (cut in half as you need two 24" booms), $19 so that is pretty good deal. There will be some shipping to add to this. ACP has many CF products so look around their web site and make a big order!

Try Goodwinds.com also,decent pricing.

 

[Alexander King]

The CF tissue (also called CF veil) is not cheap (1/2 Oz/Yrd runs about $18/yard), so money save is not what that is about. As for foam here is a place you can get foam in sizes you can deal with. (Low cost also.) RC Foam They have CF rods also, pretty good prices on them. There are other places with CF rods, do a WEB search and you can look them over, the price/quality vary a good bit. Here is another CF place (Good price on CF tissue) CF place

Divinycell H is the ticket for foam, BUT it costs about like gold also! Hard to find smaller sheets and a whole sheet would cost $150 or more. Spyder foam is a blue foam that works pretty well and is lower cost and available. There are other foams also, but this is enough food for web surfing for now!

Thanks for the information Paul... I don't think that its about being cheap as much as being smart about what purchase. e.g. Well which would you rather have a piece of wood you thought you had use for that cost more then what you need and now have no use for the wood :angry: or the item you actually need that was there about the same price?? As I said I wish I had knowledge of using 1/16 ply along with the CF veil instead of buying the 1/8th ply I now have no use for. No one to blame but myself I had already price the CF already and will order it soon.. B)

Heywhire thanks for the idea ... didn't think of going to Lowes and the price is right for what I need.

Ron thanks also the price was on the money !!

 

[Paul Traufler]

Man I know how it is, a few bucks here and there add up pretty fast! I expect you will use that 1/8 ply for something, so that is not a lost item. No matter how much plywood you have you will run out at 11PM on a Sat night while in a build session! CF is worse, hard to keep that black gold in stock! I do agree it is better to spend more money now during the build on quality materials that last vs. going low cost and fixing right later!

On a side note if you use the "blue foam" and want to use CA glue get the foam safe kind! (Not that I would know this first hand...)

 

[Alexander King]

Paul you mention that are a aerospace guy and Im work with engineers and went to school for aerospace so we both know what it means to be cost effective but practical. YUP! your right about the use for the wood...its 12pm Saturday night and only 3 beers left and you run out of what...1/8th ply ... at least there is half a six pack left I could drink while staring at the build :lol:

Well In the short time I was gone form the here I found the foam of course not in my local Lowes but in one way across the state so I will take a drive I guess on Sunday or Tomorrow to get the stuff ...Thanks Heywhire for the tip again!

Glue! Im going to build with epoxy like I did with the JAE.12. I used very little amounts of epoxy spread out enough to cover the whole surface. there was very little that came out the sides then I placed the part on a flat surface and place a weight on the part to ensure the sponsons were straight. Worked like a charm and didn't add any weight.

 

[Heywhire]

Alexander I am glad you got what you needed. I would keep the 1/8 ply because I was told that the right side sponson should be 1/8" on the inboard side and also the outboard side of the sponson because it takes a beating and it should be beefed up a little. Also if you are building the "G" sponsons you should bring the brass tube thru both sides of the sponson and put collars on to hold it in place. I built the "H" sponsons and did not do that, but if you pin the sponsons to the carbon then you can use both types of sponsons which is what I plan to do, experiment. So I have to now build the H sponsons. Another pieces of info I was told was to makke sure the ride pads are square and there should be sharp edges on the sponsons.

 

[Paul Traufler]

Yes the engineering motto is get max. results with the least material and lowest cost possible! All these rockets and airplanes would not fly if they were built like we want to build the boats, weight is always going to be the issue to solve. I will say CF really makes it a great deal easier to get the strength (super strong) and suffer little of the weight gain.

On a side note the foam/epoxy method vs. the foam/CA glue has almost the same strength to weight ratio so either path is fine. But as I wrote in the build log the CA method is for the "fast" builders as the time for the CA to set is pretty short. I do think the epoxy method gives a bit more protection to the wood if you have a break in the outer surface water could get in, the CA method COULD have some areas uncovered and allow water to soak into the wood. In the end either path works, pick what you like. BTW did you try Home Depot for foam? I do recall some posts that Lowes was the only ones that had the blue stuff, but I do think the blue color foam is not blue anymore also.

I did pass the brass all the way through the sponsons, and I added hardwood dowels all thw way through, and 1/8" ply on both sides (inside) of the Rt sponson for extra turn fin support. The web page build log will have a picture of this detail later.

These small details passed between builders will help others in their builds, so lets keep them coming guys!