Interesting statement....

[sjslhill]

I was thinking he had a brushless motor engineering team or something.

Your right Dan....

Let's talk about RRR's engineering team. I would like hear more about this one, sounds exciting. Anyone know who the engineering team is?

[/i]

Let's see, besides Don himself, there is Reed Eagle, former Aerospace engineer and CAD specialist, the racing team, Miha Holc, with to many

European Championships to name. Doug Twaits Jr. multiple national NAMBA titles and High points championships, Brian Vega, multiple national NAMBA titles. Chris Harris, composites.

Hired guns, Andy Kunz electronics & Garry Finlay, hull design. There are more, but it's not my place to list them.

I would say that's a pretty respectful engineering team.

It would be nice if there were more positive threads like the "class structure" one started by Doug as well as your posts on cell technology and less slamming of the Rum Runner forum and the Wollard's in particular here. Maybe Tom could start a sperate forum for bashing RR and the Wollard's so the rest of us don't have to read it.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Maybe Tom could start a sperate forum for bashing RR and the Wollard's so the rest of us don't have to read it.

Good idea.

Even better yet. How about a forum just for RR and Lehner/BK to post in.

Let them battle it out, right out in the open for everyone to see. Yet, no interference from biased onlookers. No anectodal inputs like: "I've known him for more than 100 years, so he must be right!" or "He's built some fast boats and keeps fast company, so he couldn't possibly mislead me!"

Just one side laying out their evidence and then the other side laying out theirs.

Fair and balanced. Then, everyone can decide for themself, no testimonials required.

 

[CySlyde]

Just one side laying out their evidence and then the other side laying out theirs.

Fair and balanced. Then, everyone can decide for themself, no testimonials required.

unfortunatly it doesn't seem like that will happen anytime soon... it's hard to keep things fair and ballanced when there are a lot of hard feelings going arround. and to put others in hte nix doesn't help at all

 

[Kris Flynn]

Kevin i dont know the whole story bud, so i was just joking

Who else is in the 'banned racing team'?

 

[eddieh]

It would be nice if there were more positive threads like the "class structure" one started by Doug as well as your posts on cell technology and less slamming of the Rum Runner forum and the Wollard's in particular here. Maybe Tom could start a sperate forum for bashing RR and the Wollard's so the rest of us don't have to read it.

Man I gotta agree with you Dan, I don't post much here, but I do read here a lot , it is pretty disheartening to see that RumRunner bashing would be a hot topic, as opposed to say 1/8th scale electric hydros, the debate on full size c cells as opposed to 3300's, the latest record breaking runs... Does anybody here know the whole story? I don't, I know bits and pieces, so I won't comment, but I will say for a company not to continue they're alliance with a product they have spent a lot of money promoting, well that tells me there is a lot more to the story..

all those unfixed controllers? man that would be a chunk of ka-ching to swallow and still stay afloat...

but as most , I would like to hear what the story is... and from both sides.

I truly believe the Fast Electric Community is Far better with the Wollards in it, I really believe they have advanced this hobby,

especially the gains in the SAW racing...leave the technical and design aspects aside, talk about exposure... the rumrunner cup, the setting of the bar... 80, 100, 120...

I like to learn as much as I can, I love this hobby, I have really learned a lot from reading all the posts, but posts that have innuendos, or vendor bashing without the whole story being known, isn't worth the cyberspace it is written on...

 

[sjslhill]

I am confussed....

Who here is bashing? Is that your preception?

 

[eddieh]

Steve, I wasn't referring to your post per se, it was the postings within it, I find that as far as vendors go, you are one of the most honest helpful people in the biz, to recommend another company for the same type of product that you were offering (ok without zapping etc) says a lot about you as a person and businessman I couldn't give you a higher rating and believe me when I say yours is the first shop I will stop in...

that said some of the other posts within this thread seem to have a certain anti rumrunner biased which is fine if that is what these people want to get out of the hobby, I am trying to learn as much as I can, I get sick and tired of the innuendos , it just makes me move onto a different thread or forum and serves no purpose, sorry if I vented on this post

 

[forresterace]

Eddie, Eddie, Eddie

You're doing exactly the same thing! Oblique comments and innuendo :

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Does anybody here know the whole story? I don't, I know bits and pieces, so I won't comment, but I will say for a company not to continue they're alliance with a product they have spent a lot of money promoting, well that tells me there is a lot more to the story..

all those unfixed controllers? man that would be a chunk of ka-ching to swallow and still stay afloat...

but as most , I would like to hear what the story is... and from both sides.

Your wish is granted. From a post by S. Vasdekis on his reply from Lehner/BK:

I have 2 of the BK controllers and I was going to dump them on eBay because of what I have been reading, but before jumping to conclusions I emailed BK to ask them if my controller fails will I be able to get service and this is the answer they gave me.

"

Dear Stavros,

thank you for your email.

1. RumRunner and BK are not longer together ! We quit the business with them - because we still have to get a lot of money and they do not pay for allready send products !

1a) and RRH collected the repairs before they send them to us up to 2 - 3 monthes and now we are the bad guys

2. We are happy that your products are fine !

3. If you have any problems pls contact us directly and we will repair them if it is possible or change them into new !!!!!

4. For sending the parts to germany it will take approx. 2 weeks

For repair (it depense what is broken) it will take approx also 3 - 4 workingdays

For backsending post will take also another 2 weeks

complete approx. 4 - 5 weeks

5. If you know somebody in USA who has problems pls tell them what i wrote or post it in your different forums !!!!

we want to have customers which are happy with our products and if they have problems we will do everything to help them

best regards

BK-Team Germany"

Now, we are getting some view from both sides.

And, I was wrong!

The Lehner/BK reply thread has not disappeared, it is and has been up (on the RR board) for 50+ minutes.

KW

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Kevin i dont know the whole story bud, so i was just joking

Who else is in the 'banned racing team'?

Joking, eh? I knew that. ;D

The racing team thing: Just a running joke itself.

 

[eddieh]

Eddie, Eddie, Eddie

You're doing exactly the same thing! Oblique comments and innuendo :

Doug, I sincerely apologize that wasn't the intent, I just didn't want to escalate anything by naming specifics. I'll edit my post your right...

 

[forresterace]

No problem, Eddie

 

[eddieh]

Thanx Doug,.

here is Don's reply to Steve if you don't go to the RRR forum, quote

"SteveV and others.

RRH Back Charged BK after we covered the expense of replacing or refunding over 40 failed controllers for customers. Our experiance of 1 1/2 years dealing with BK was the average repair time was over 6 months. More like 9 months in most cases.

BK is poorly run, undercapitaized and have no clue what they are doing. This is no secret in Europe.

Of course they are two stepping. Just ask the car guys. Ask about BK on the Emaxx forums if you want to gets some other opinions. I would love to hear your report.

Steve - did you read the SAW post about the BK controllers. Not one of them worked - at all. Same fate Team Rum Runner discovered at the SAWs a year ago. I can't wait to get reports from the guys whose BK controllers melted (at the SAWs) ... hear how BK adjusts/replaces these failed units. They are CRAP and not suited for what they represent.

I will have a lot more to report in the near future as stated above.

Your choice is simple! You can follow the lead of someone else experiance in this subject matter or spend your hard earned money and learn for yourself. I am just trying to help."

to me it seems very plausible, and is a common business practice, It is done all the time in my job when vendors fail to meet their committments, usually there is also a performance bond...

just another part of the story, and adds to the he said she said thing... I think it is good advice to wait for the reports of the folks in the trenches....

cheers eddie

 

[sjslhill]

As a business person I could take this response in different ways. It appears to me that many statements of propaganda were used to promote just how great brushless systems are. I guess we see now just how great they are. 40+ controllers that were junk (most likly many were used improperly by new racers)

This just points out another link to sponsorships. Sponsored guys run updated and modified equipment, the rest are sold the normal stuff.

You can call this bashing if you choose. I think it's fairly simple to see the fact here.

 

[Dan Chase]

Out of respect for Tom, I will try and keep this as a discussion and I really hope it doesn't resort to a flame war and name calling.

As we all know there was a major fallout between several of the major manufactures and distributors, That's fine, crap like that happens all the time. The problem was that it also created a lot of division between the racers & enthusiasts as to who's camp they were in, this really hurt on a personal level. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect that.

I saw a lot of healing and friendships renewed at the Nats this year. It made feel good, none of the disputing manufactures and distributors showed, but their teams did, this was probably the best thing that could have happened.

Leading up to the '03 Nats, two of the manufactures/distributors did something to our club that could have left us in a world of hurt, I never once publicly named them. It was between our club and them and would have only fueled the fire more. I didn't see this as a constructive way to rebuild and heal the fast electric community.

I know there are a lot of members of this forum that harbor a grudge and/or vendetta against Rum Runner because they were banned from the forum. I also know in most cases the circumstances, and these people clearly violated the posting rules on RR continuously and with warning's to clean up there act before they were banned. I also know a lot of members chose to leave RR on their own accord.

International Waters is a great site, I have been coming here long before there was an electric forum and I applaud Tom for adding the electric forum, it gives another voice to the FE boater and is clearly good PR judging from all the nitro racers I see posting here. Do any of you really think that some of the open bitterness, innuendoes and potshots at the "Red Forum" are constructive? What do you think that visiting nitro racers think, that we all bicker and fight all day? Neither is the case, for anyone that attends FE racers knows this is one of the most helpful and supportive hobbies I have ever been involved with and I have made a lot of great friendships as a result of it.

As I said, we are all entitled to our opinions, debates are healthy for our sport, even heated ones. But are the stabs and jabs really necessary and healthy for our sport? There is a wealth of information here on International Waters and it's great to see the interaction here with the nitro racers.

This division has created tension with a lot of people I consider friends, I hope we can all put our differences aside and discuss FE boats and let the manufactures/distributors battle it out amongst themselves.

 

[sjslhill]

Dan,

I think your over reacting way too much over this thread....but my thoughts are..Just face it, this forum is growing and others have an opportunity to say what they think. You can view this like some politician if you choose to do so, guess you will, since you said it about three times now.

The racing community is alot more than the people that you are talking about. The Nationals and the SAW's. It's the same ole thing. I just hope that Tom and Doug are above this same old stuff. Frankly I could care less about some healing at the NAT's. I have no intention of ever attending there ever unless it's in MI. It's the other site that started the division, not this one.

Out of respect for Tom, I will try and keep this as a discussion and I really hope it doesn't resort to a flame war and name calling.

As we all know there was a major fallout between several of the major manufactures and distributors, That's fine, crap like that happens all the time. The problem was that it also created a lot of division between the racers & enthusiasts as to who's camp they were in, this really hurt on a personal level. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect that.

I saw a lot of healing and friendships renewed at the Nats this year. It made feel good, none of the disputing manufactures and distributors showed, but their teams did, this was probably the best thing that could have happened.

Leading up to the '03 Nats, two of the manufactures/distributors did something to our club that could have left us in a world of hurt, I never once publicly named them. It was between our club and them and would have only fueled the fire more. I didn't see this as a constructive way to rebuild and heal the fast electric community.

I know there are a lot of members of this forum that harbor a grudge and/or vendetta against Rum Runner because they were banned from the forum. I also know in most cases the circumstances, and these people clearly violated the posting rules on RR continuously and with warning's to clean up there act before they were banned. I also know a lot of members chose to leave RR on their own accord.

International Waters is a great site, I have been coming here long before there was an electric forum and I applaud Tom for adding the electric forum, it gives another voice to the FE boater and is clearly good PR judging from all the nitro racers I see posting here. Do any of you really think that some of the open bitterness, innuendoes and potshots at the "Red Forum" are constructive? What do you think that visiting nitro racers think, that we all bicker and fight all day? Neither is the case, for anyone that attends FE racers knows this is one of the most helpful and supportive hobbies I have ever been involved with and I have made a lot of great friendships as a result of it.

As I said, we are all entitled to our opinions, debates are healthy for our sport, even heated ones. But are the stabs and jabs really necessary and healthy for our sport? There is a wealth of information here on International Waters and it's great to see the interaction here with the nitro racers.

This division has created tension with a lot of people I consider friends, I hope we can all put our differences aside and discuss FE boats and let the manufactures/distributors battle it out amongst themselves.

 

[Dan Chase]

Dan,

I think your over reacting way too much over this thread. Just face it, this forum is growing and others have an opportunity to say what they think. You can view this like some politician if you choose to do so, guess you will, since you said it about three times now.

Steve, I was not just referring to this thread, you don't have to go to far down the list of threads to finds plenty of bitterness, innuendoes and potshots at the "Red Forum".

If I am a politician, then my platform is to heal the FE community, is that a problem?

 

[sjslhill]

Better read my update....you might want to add some more.

Dan,

I think your over reacting way too much over this thread. Just face it, this forum is growing and others have an opportunity to say what they think. You can view this like some politician if you choose to do so, guess you will, since you said it about three times now.

Steve, I was not just referring to this thread, you don't have to go to far down the list of threads to finds plenty of bitterness, innuendoes and potshots at the "Red Forum".

If I am a politician, then my platform is to heal the FE community, is that a problem?

 

[eddieh]

You can call this bashing if you choose. I think it's fairly simple to see the fact here.

Steve as I said it wasn't your post, per se,

personally I respect your point of view, and value the information provided by you I can even agree about brushless, I have not gone brushless myself, not until someone builds a controller that gets rave reviews all the time like dick C gave the castle creations or until Andy K makes one and they are deemed bulletproof

I ceratinly don't travel or race in the same circles as many of the guys here, I have read on both fourms the problems with brushless is not the motors it is the controllers, and speaking for myself i cannot afford to drop a couple three franklins everytime my esc gets splashed so I deal with brushed. it won't be the fastest set up but it will be dependable.

I also don't want to fuel any division, here or anywhere for that matter, I have a tremendous Respect for most of the guys on this forum and also a tremendous respect for the wollards.

hope we can talk about something else...

 

[sjslhill]

Yes I agree....I am about done with thread. This situation will end just like I thought it would anyway.

On to new and better things.

thanks

Steve

You can call this bashing if you choose. I think it's fairly simple to see the fact here.

Steve as I said it wasn't your post, per se,

personally I respect your point of view, and value the information provided by you I can even agree about brushless, I have not gone brushless myself, not until someone builds a controller that gets rave reviews all the time like dick C gave the castle creations or until Andy K makes one and they are deemed bulletproof

I ceratinly don't travel or race in the same circles as many of the guys here, I have read on both fourms the problems with brushless is not the motors it is the controllers, and speaking for myself i cannot afford to drop a couple three franklins everytime my esc gets splashed so I deal with brushed. it won't be the fastest set up but it will be dependable.

I also don't want to fuel any division, here or anywhere for that matter, I have a tremendous Respect for most of the guys on this forum and also a tremendous respect for the wollards.

hope we can talk about something else...