IMPBA Sport 20/40 2012 Rule Proposal, Author Needs Input Please

[SayMikey]

Hi everyone

Is the same for me this is legal in impba rules in the 40 classes boat is 40 inch because i build that boat like the real one and the guys how build the real boat lives in Virginia USA is name is Larry Lauterback

Mine and the real one

http://img14.imagesh...6/sany0511f.jpg

http://img804.images...4/sany0014j.jpg

http://img140.images...05/dsc0104q.jpg

Thanks

Marco

I guess my first question is is your boat exactly 40 inches long? Any more and it does not fit the current rules.

 

[Don Ferrette]

I don't see a problem with the sport 40 class. I have been racing for about 15 years and in all that time, every race I have attended sport 40 has been the largest class or next to the largest class. That should tell you that there is Nothing wrong with the rules. If you want to paint your sport 40 up like a real boat then do so and stick the strut through the bottom of the boat and race it. If cutting a slot in the bottom of you boat is to much for you then don't run the class. If you want to run a scale style boat then move up to 1/8 scale. Sport 40 is just that a SPORT class. I don't want to see any changes in this class. Why mess up something that isn't broke.

Buddy

Please explain WHY should it be the only IMPBA sport hydro class that does not allow transom mounted struts and "because that's the way it's been" is not the answer. There is no performance gains as that got dispproved a while ago and it makes life easier for the average boater. Besides you said it yourself Sport 40 is just that a SPORT class so why should it not be like all the other SPORT classes? And suggesting someone not run the class because they might have difficulties with the challenge of a thru hull strut mounting? Really?

Well Sport 40 was the First sport class and my personal opinion is that sport 20 should have been a direct copy of the sport 40 rules with the only exceptions being motor size and boat length. There are only 2 sport classes( 20 & 40) and why the 20 rules did not followed the 40 rules is beyond me. Now answer this for me. Why do you fill like the rules need be changed for a few guys that purposely built their sport boats outside the written rules. They built them the way they wanted to so their is a class they can race in, it's called 40 hydro. There problem solved. I know you won't like that answer but they do have a class for them to race in so let them race in the 40 hydro class.

Buddy

Buddy, you're a good guy and I'm not trying to get in a big debate with you but now that the other sport classes (there is more than just 2 actually 8 currently with a possible 9th pending) are set up to allow transom mounted struts you still haven't said WHY the strut rule shouldn't be consistent across the board for all the sport boats. Please just answer the one question without saying the rules are fine, a simple explanation of why it shouldn't happen is all I ask. The plus side is it gets easier for guys who want to run the sport 40 class when building and we gain more boaters with it opening the door for the Canadian GP guys to come play. If you want the strut under the boat fine build it that way, if you want to hang it off the transom so be it but really exactly what is the big deal?

 

[sebastiencaron]

Grim,

i know it's not your goal but it's mine and my club member.

Buddy,

just for your information our club exist since 1970 and the old boat had strut behind transom and the new one too. It's been a long time that our boats are like that. Why have two different classes with the same type of boat. If I base myself on the race as we have in our district, I guarantee that you will not see the diference because the primary goal is to finish the race. I am confident that with the experience you have, you know that the performance of a boat is not only due to the position of the strut. The design of the boat most affect performance. Why are you so affraid to the idea of rule change? I think you don't lose anything if the rule change.

Sébastien

PS: sorry for my english, it's not my primary lauguage.

 

[sjslhill]

Amazing stuff, you want to change sport 40 into some class with outrigger hardware and prop 2 inches behind the transom? I would say NEVER do this.

 

[Grimracer]

Sebastian,

Its not my goal. Im just saying as a group I have not heard that. I do however understand what you and your friend are saying.

I then want to ask.. A group? of people are asking if we (THE IMPBA) can change so we can all run together. How about this group of people build to meet our (the IMPBA)s current rule?

Not trying to be a smart guy here just asking?

IF.. the IMPBA body feels this will increase the racer turnouts (and thats the goal) then BY ALL MEANS.. we need to review it.. But...lets ask ourselves.. will it REALLY before we make that change.

Also, from the design side this WILL NOT.. make the boats easier to understand for the boat suppler or scratch builder. I feel we have larger fish to fly then the strut issue. (just me)

I am sure this will all work out.

Grim

 

[sjslhill]

Sellers should never be allowed to suggest rule changes....

 

[Don Ferrette]

Amazing stuff, you want to change sport 40 into some class with outrigger hardware and prop 2 inches behind the transom? I would say NEVER do this.

Weren't you an FE guy where all five sport hydro classes (N,P,Q,S &T) allow transom mounted struts? Talk about amazing ........
Once again for those who seem to not get this part, out of the EIGHT sport hydro classes in IMPBA - sport 20, sport 40, gas sport hydro, N, P, Q, S and T sport hydro FE's - sport 40 is the only class not allowing transom mounted struts. It's one simple question that nobody yet has given an explanation WHY it should not be the same for all??? :wacko:

 

[Don Ferrette]

Also, from the design side this WILL NOT.. make the boats easier to understand for the boat suppler or scratch builder. I feel we have larger fish to fly then the strut issue. (just me)

I am sure this will all work out.

Grim

I don't know where you got the easier to understand part but it will make it easier for someone to build and set up/adjust.
No large fish here Z, for me I want to see the rule CONSISTENT across all the sport hydro classes. Gaining the Canadian GP boats is just a bonus. B)

 

[SeanKewley]

Sellers should never be allowed to suggest rule changes....

Our district 4 director, Paul Bychowski, is the one proposing the rule change. To my knowledge the motive driving the rule change is to prevent people from going into the grey area of designing and racing a sport hydro / rigger hybrid hull such as those currently being allowed in gas sport hydro. Strut location and the covering of exhaust pipes are topics that have subsequently arisen in addition to the main concern surrounding hull design.

 

[SayMikey]

Amazing stuff, you want to change sport 40 into some class with outrigger hardware and prop 2 inches behind the transom? I would say NEVER do this.

Weren't you an FE guy where all five sport hydro classes (N,P,Q,S &T) allow transom mounted struts? Talk about amazing ........
Once again for those who seem to not get this part, out of the EIGHT sport hydro classes in IMPBA - sport 20, sport 40, gas sport hydro, N, P, Q, S and T sport hydro FE's - sport 40 is the only class not allowing transom mounted struts. It's one simple question that nobody yet has given an explanation WHY it should not be the same for all??? :wacko:

I dont care about the Strut rule,BUT I do care about the rest of it. Gas Sport Hydro Rule was changed to allow Illegal boats to be legal. Lets not talk about the other classes just Sport 20 and 40

 

[FloridaScaleBoater]

Don, Mike Z

I don't care either way,, in the middle of building a ML Boat works sport-21 Guess where the strut is???

Like I said,, don't care,, lets race!!!!

 

[Don Ferrette]

Amazing stuff, you want to change sport 40 into some class with outrigger hardware and prop 2 inches behind the transom? I would say NEVER do this.

Weren't you an FE guy where all five sport hydro classes (N,P,Q,S &T) allow transom mounted struts? Talk about amazing ........
Once again for those who seem to not get this part, out of the EIGHT sport hydro classes in IMPBA - sport 20, sport 40, gas sport hydro, N, P, Q, S and T sport hydro FE's - sport 40 is the only class not allowing transom mounted struts. It's one simple question that nobody yet has given an explanation WHY it should not be the same for all??? :wacko:

I dont care about the Strut rule,BUT I do care about the rest of it. Gas Sport Hydro Rule was changed to allow Illegal boats to be legal. Lets not talk about the other classes just Sport 20 and 40

Mikey THAT is the point, ALL the other sport hydro classes in the IMPBA allow transom mounted struts. All I want is for someone to offer up a reasonable argument as to why sport 40 should not be the same and so far nobody has done so. Again the sole motivation here (for me anyways) is consistency across the board concerning strut location options in the sport hydro classes, nothing more and nothing less............

 

[Greg Hahn]

I'm not a sport 40 guy though I've built one according to the present rules. The problem I personally see here with consistnacy and other issues across the entire rule book is, there's no real rule book procedures whereby the rules are proposed, discussed, vetted and voted on by an appropriate (in that class or style) group of informed, active members other than the executive branch. To my knowledge (I've read the book cover to cover more than once) unless I missed it somewhere there's no stated rule book cycle (time between re-writes), no contest boards, no rule change proposal form or procedure for a member to formally propose a change.

I've never been a rule book hound but until some form of procedural control and documented system is put in place the rule book is destined for this type of problem.

Nothing derogitory meant here but I manage a rule book as part of my job that when printed both sides consumes an entire reem of paper, and changing that document is handled in a very smooth and orderly fashon every two years. Not claiming that everyone is happy about the outcome but there's no doubt that the majority rules and things are very well vetted to the best humanly possible. It takes three board votes to make a change, all proposals are published in a timely fassion as well as all the vote tabulations so the general member has plenty of time to read and comment on the proposals at hand. It's not perfect by any standards but the procedure has been working for over 50 years.

If anyone is interested I would be willing to work on a system of procedures for the IMPBA.

simply offering

gh

now back to the previously scheduled debate................

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

Even though I don't have a pony in this race, the IMPBA Rulebook, Sport 40 Hydroplane, Boat Specification #2, has this wording,".......resemble a limited or unlimited hydroplane of past or present...."

Many current limited and unlimited hydroplanes now have transom mounted struts. It would seem to me what is being incorporated in full size limited and unlimited hydroplanes should be allowed in a class intended to ".......resemble limited or unlimited hydroplane of past or present......."

Just an observation from the "Left Coast."

JD

 

[Mark Leyde]

Even though I don't have a pony in this race, the IMPBA Rulebook, Sport 40 Hydroplane, Boat Specification #2, has this wording,".......resemble a limited or unlimited hydroplane of past or present...."

Many current limited and unlimited hydroplanes now have transom mounted struts. It would seem to me what is being incorporated in full size limited and unlimited hydroplanes should be allowed in a class intended to ".......resemble limited or unlimited hydroplane of past or present......."

Just an observation from the "Left Coast."

JD

Hey JD you see it the way my brother and I do. Not many do though. I do not know why, pretty plane and simple to me. And to add to your comment almost all current limited hydros use a transom mounted strut.

Mark

 

[Hydro Junkie]

JD, while I can agree with you on the limited boats, I've yet to see an unlimited with a strut mounted on the transom. Do you know of one that is configured that way that I haven't seen? I'm not saying I know about every unlimited boat, just never seen one with a transom mounted strut

 

[Tom Kelly]

The Sport 40 class has been around for quite a while. In our area, it sort of took off when the Dumas Pay N Pak kit came out. Then everyone started to make there own version, and so on. In my opinion, it was the other sport classes that didn't follow inline with the Sport 40 rules. When the LSG Sport Hydro and Sport 20 classes came out, the strut under the boat rule was not followed, so that's where we are at today.

I guess the problem is that some people did not build there boat to the existing rules in place, and now they want to change them to allow there boat to be legal. Sounds like buggy before the horse to me. If I wanted to build a boat for a class, I would read the rules first.

Greg... I would like to talk to you about the rule book at Hobart, if you would like.

 

[Doug Smock]

http://impba.net/attachments/132_Sec-B,%20Constitution%20%202012.pdf

 

[John Finch]

I don't know how far along Paul is on the re-write but one thing I'd like to revisit is the strut must be under the boat deal on the sport 40's. There are some beautiful GP replica boats running in Canada and elsewhere with .45 motors and cannot run in IMPBA because of this rule. Here's a example-

http://www.intlwater...ndpost&p=492403

It's time to move forward and allow transom mounted struts like we already do for the sport .20 and gas sport boats, let's have some consistency in the sport hydro classes.

First dibs on the boat when you get tired of it.

 

[bsmtboy2]

I have watched this thread for awhile, and since i am a sport 40 racer i think the rules for the class are written for a specific class with specific setup rules. The class is alive and well in most districts in both organizations as is. That being said, I like the Canadian clubs GP boats they do resemble the full size counterparts. The question is do they have a advantage vs the traditional style sport 40 ? Since we all are "grown men", let's take a 1 year trial run on the GP hulls and let them run at various events local and National, talk to the builders, get the hulls vetted with rules committees,and then we will see if the members feel its a good thing or not. I have raced against some of the best around and i believe they welcome the challenge..............nuff said throw the boats in the water and RACE